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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 26, 2022 20:34:35 GMT -5
The music may be in deep trouble. The Commencement program notes that the state of Maryland retired "O Maryland, My Maryland" in 2021. As well they should. O Maryland, My Maryland' was proposed as the anthem of the Confederacy. IIRC, the Alma Mater lyrics were composed by a student who lived in the coal mining region of Pennsylvania. Later in life, I believe he entered politics, and again IIRC, held elective office as a Democrat.
The College is apparently scrutinizing several other school songs, which have origins in blackface minstrel shows of the South. 'Mamie Reilly' comes to mind.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 26, 2022 20:41:27 GMT -5
I am not making a political statement in favor or opposed to any part or the whole of any song associated with Holy Cross. With that disclaimer, sadly necessary these days, am I correct in recalling that we made one change to Mamie Reilly decades ago, changing "Old Black Joe" to "Go Cross Go"?
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 26, 2022 20:56:43 GMT -5
KY: Yes, the change was made in 1969-1970 school year. As the College is located in a northern “Commonwealth”, I question the relevance in a fight song of a continued reference to a southern “Commonwealth” that rarely in a decade a Holy Cross athletic team enters into competition within its jurisdiction. I do not sing the lyrics when attending an athletic event. I ignore the song, even with the offensive lyric removed. Never understood the relevance of the lyrics to HC as an institution. Sincerely doubt many who enter HC after 1970 have a vague idea of the reference, and why it is offensive. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Black_Joe
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 26, 2022 21:01:14 GMT -5
I am not making a political statement in favor or opposed to any part or the whole of any song associated with Holy Cross. With that disclaimer, sadly necessary these days, am I correct in recalling that we made one change to Mamie Reilly decades ago, changing "Old Black Joe" to "Go Cross Go"? From the Boston Globe, October 1970. "Also gone is the classic Holy Cross song, “Old Mamie Reilly,” because one of the stanzas makes reference to “Old Black Joe.”"
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 26, 2022 21:03:47 GMT -5
With the change: Oh, Mamie Reilly, goin far away Oh, Mamie Reilly, won't be back today! Come kiss your daddy now before we part. Oh, Mamie, Mamie, Mamie Reilly! Slide Kelly, Slide Casey's at the bat. Oh, Mamie Reilly, where'd you get that hat? Down in Old Kentucky. Go, Cross, Go! Oh, Mamie, Mamie, Mamie Reilly!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 26, 2022 21:14:35 GMT -5
The despot's heel is on thy shore Maryland, my Maryland His torches at thy temple door Maryland, my Maryland
Avenge the patriotic gore That flecked the streets of Baltimore And be the battle queen of yore Maryland, my Maryland
Thou wilt not cower in the dust Maryland, my Maryland Thy beaming sword shall never rust Maryland, my Maryland
Remember Carroll's sacred trust Remember Howard's warlike thrust And though thy slumberers with the just Maryland, my Maryland
Dear mother, burst the tyrant's chain Maryland, my Maryland Virginia should not call in vain Maryland, my Maryland
She meets her sisters on the plain "Sic semper" 'tis the proud refrain That baffle's minions back o'Maine Maryland, my Maryland
Arise, arise in majesty again Maryland, Maryland, my Maryland ----------------- The despot is Lincoln. The tyrant is Lincoln.
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Post by sader1970 on May 26, 2022 21:20:11 GMT -5
Re: the alma mater, while it has the same tune as "Maryland, my Maryland" (my HC '42 father's birthplace), that same tune goes with "O Christmas Tree." The words to alma mater go better with the tune than either of those other songs!
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 26, 2022 21:22:19 GMT -5
The GoodTime Band also played another song written by Stephen Foster, and often sung by Al Jolson, in its repertoire during football games, that was inappropriate and not relevant to Holy Cross. It was CampTown Races. I do not remember exactly when it was discontinued, but I remember it played as recently as the late 1980’s maybe into the 1990’s. If you search on YouTube for the rendition by Jolson, you will see why it was inappropriate and offensive. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camptown_Races
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Post by longsuffering on May 26, 2022 21:40:08 GMT -5
Let's write some new politically correct fight songs with a solid 21st century rap beat.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 26, 2022 21:45:40 GMT -5
Lauriger Horatius ^^^ Video uploaded by a man named Ng. The Commencement program notes that this German student song Lauriger Horatius is the origin of both O Maryland, My Maryland, and O Tannenbaum And also of 'The Red Flag', the anthem of the British Labour Party
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Post by timholycross on May 26, 2022 21:48:26 GMT -5
With the change: Oh, Mamie Reilly, goin far away Oh, Mamie Reilly, won't be back today! Come kiss your daddy now before we part. Oh, Mamie, Mamie, Mamie Reilly! Slide Kelly, Slide Casey's at the bat. Oh, Mamie Reilly, where'd you get that hat? Down in Old Kentucky. Go, Cross, Go! Oh, Mamie, Mamie, Mamie Reilly! I guess you could call it the Seinfeld of school songs (song about nothing). Means nothing, slur included or not included.
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Post by timholycross on May 26, 2022 21:54:43 GMT -5
I guess Charlie Brown's gotta go too.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 26, 2022 21:57:54 GMT -5
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 26, 2022 21:59:25 GMT -5
Let's write some new politically correct fight songs with a solid 21st century rap beat. No... Would not be appropriate. I would ignore songs written in that genre as well. Let’s have music that is appropriate to the mission of the College. Not Lyrics that are irrelevant. With the opening of the Prior Center next semester, the Arts will play a significant and new role in the Holy Cross Curriculum. It is refreshing to see that past songs associated with HC are being critically reviewed regarding their historic relevance to the institution and their future. Just like an old pair of favorite shoes, somethings are worn, tired and dated. Maybe time to place them in the archives for study.
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Post by timholycross on May 26, 2022 22:04:02 GMT -5
Changing the Alma Mater for those pretenses (because one of many songs sung to its tune was offensive) is a real stretch. Then again, nothing surprises me any more.
Can anyone find fault with these lyrics other than the gender references, which were changed quite a while ago?
Oh, hear thy sons in happy song, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. Thy sons are loyal, true and strong, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. Thy purple banner floats on high, While songs of praise swell to the sky Thy honored name shall never die, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. With pride we view thy stately walls, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross, Sweet mem'ries linger in thy halls, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. The hill that slopes with gentle grace, The Blackstone gliding at its base, Make thee majestic, dear old place, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross.
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Post by sader1970 on May 26, 2022 22:23:03 GMT -5
Second stanza radically different from my recollection of how Dad sung it to us when we were young and how I've seen it written in years gone by. Where'd you find that version, tim?
Yeah, get rid of the alma mater. What the heck, the Crusader's gone.
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Post by timholycross on May 26, 2022 22:29:35 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on May 26, 2022 23:51:56 GMT -5
Changing the Alma Mater for those pretenses (because one of many songs sung to its tune was offensive) is a real stretch. Then again, nothing surprises me any more. Can anyone find fault with these lyrics other than the gender references, which were changed quite a while ago? Oh, hear thy sons in happy song, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. Thy sons are loyal, true and strong, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. Thy purple banner floats on high, While songs of praise swell to the sky Thy honored name shall never die, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. With pride we view thy stately walls, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross, Sweet mem'ries linger in thy halls, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross. The hill that slopes with gentle grace, The Blackstone gliding at its base, Make thee majestic, dear old place, Holy Cross, old Holy Cross.
At 20 the hill slopes with gentle grace, At 70 the hill makes your heart race. And if that is the Blackstone River gurgling under 290, how did the industrial revolution ever get started?
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Post by longsuffering on May 26, 2022 23:56:07 GMT -5
HC has done pretty well for a college built on a flood plain. Some Shyster sold Father Fitton swamp land.
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Post by longsuffering on May 26, 2022 23:58:34 GMT -5
Let's write some new politically correct fight songs with a solid 21st century rap beat. No... Would not be appropriate. I would ignore songs written in that genre as well. Let’s have music that isappropriate to the mission of the College. Not Lyrics that are irrelevant. With the opening of the Prior Center next semester, the Arts will play a significant and new role in the Holy Cross Curriculum. It is refreshing to see that past songs associated with HC are being critically reviewed regarding their historic relevance to the institution and their future. Just like an old pair of favorite shoes, somethings are worn, tired and dated. Maybe time to place them in the archives for study. Kidding about the rap beat. The Prior Center provides a perfect opportunity for Arts students and faculty to take a fresh look at the Holy Cross song book. Great idea.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 27, 2022 6:40:24 GMT -5
The crux of the conversation about alma mater is that the college acknowledges that the melody was taken from O Maryland, My Maryland, as opposed to O Tannenbaum. The college dates the alma mater to 1903. From the legislative biography of Augustine Patrick Conniff Conniff's father was the head of the public schools of Plains Township, PA, for many years. ------------------------------------------------------ A corollary issue is that the anthem of the Socialist, Marxists, etc., is The Red Flag, to the same melody. The college makes no reference to this anthem. From Wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_FlagThe second stanza, I'm intrigued by the fact that Conniff became a labor lawyer. Maybe not so coincidentally, in 1902, there was a bitter coal strike by Pennsylvania miners, that led to the intervention of the Federal government to settle the strike. www.dol.gov/general/aboutdol/history/coalstrikeDid Conniff hear the miners singing The Red Flag? I'm thinking he did.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 27, 2022 7:16:13 GMT -5
For sure, the alma was written to the melody of The Red Flag. The Great Coal Strike began May 1902, one month before Conniff's commencement, and was centered in eastern Pennsylvania, where Conniff grew up. The entire Pennsylvania National Guard was called up to quell the unrest. This surely would have made a great impression on Conniff when he returned home from Worcester.. I very much doubt the miners were singing 'O Maryland, My Maryland' pabook.libraries.psu.edu/literary-cultural-heritage-map-pa/feature-articles/greatest-strike-ever
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 27, 2022 8:08:45 GMT -5
To me, the fact that Maryland once had an objectionable song that was set to the same melody as the HC alma mater is irrelevant. I’ll bet that 99% of people from outside of Maryland have never heard of that state’s former song. I always associated the melody with “ O Christmas Tree” not the Maryland song.
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Post by timholycross on May 27, 2022 8:16:23 GMT -5
Has our band our any other college band stopped playing "Rock & Roll, Part 2" on moral grounds? Certainly more reasons for stopping that tune then our Alma Mater.
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Post by sader1970 on May 27, 2022 8:22:31 GMT -5
And I am sure Phreek or others will correct me if I am wrong but isn't the tune to our national anthem an old British pub (drinking) ditty? So what?!
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