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Post by sader1970 on Nov 18, 2016 19:37:18 GMT -5
Here's how I feel. I never played organized football but it is by far my favorite spectator sport because with 11 players of your team on the field on every play, teamwork is paramount. It is the sport where synergy is so critically important and is not just a "game of inches" but also a game of "milliseconds." A tenth of a second can mean the difference between a long TD pass or a pick 6 going the other way. A hole in the line might be there for a split second and then shut down just as quickly.
But we need a dose of reality. As I posted previously, somewhere along the line a myth has arisen that Holy Cross has been an historical football powerhouse. That just isn't true. Unlike in basketball and baseball, there were no actual national championship teams except at the DI-AA level under Duffner. He had a great run of 6 years that has never been duplicated, Carter being a distant second. We went to one Orange Bowl, in my father's time, and we lost that. That was the only bowl game.
In my 4 years, we had records of 6-3-1; 5-5-0; 3-6-1 and the historic 0-2-0 cancelled season. Sure we played nationally ranked teams, notably Syracuse as the Penn State series was cancelled by my time. But we also played Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth and Colgate regularly as we do today.
We played UConn but they were not very good. UMass was about our level and both of them have just relatively recently gone back to the higher echelon football tier but neither very successfully. We also played Rutgers, but they weren't very good either and Buffalo. All of them a large state schools.
But I digress. Look, I want to see Holy Cross again have undefeated seasons and even knock off a BCS team every once in a while. I want to see the regular success that a UNH has and to win PL championships and get into the NCAA playoffs. But I also recognize that we have some inherent difficulties, some self-inflicted and some just the nature of the beast.
And I know that I am skirting on political thin ice but for comparison purposes we are hearing how after the election we need to unify the country behind our new president-elect. From my perspective, Tom Gilmore will be our head coach next season and we should throw our support behind him and the team as I am sure we all want to see the team succeed on the field as they succeed in the classroom and in their careers after graduation.
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Post by joe on Nov 18, 2016 19:46:35 GMT -5
Sader1970 those are heartfelt words with much truth and realism. I will also get behind the team and its coach no matter who it is. In fact it would make me so proud and satisfied to see our current personnel succeed but I truly feel this is a tall order right now. Again what concerns me is that we have been resistant to alter our philosophical strategy despite seeing the same outcomes year after year, case in point the 4th quarter collapse. In fact we seem to even have trouble making in-game adjustments at halftime. Accordingly I'm not confident we'll suddenly become an adaptive team de novo. Forget for a minute about returning to a heyday that might or might not have existed. To simply succeed and have a winning record we need a major philosophical overhaul. Even at that, to many 6-5 is an abject failure.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 18, 2016 19:50:59 GMT -5
And even under the best of circumstances, next year's schedule is a lot tougher than this past season so we could play "better" and not have many wins. Of course, I am hoping not only that we play better, we win more games but I agree it will be an uphill climb and changes need to be made.
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Post by jkh67 on Nov 18, 2016 20:42:57 GMT -5
Minus your exaggeration about running the ball 99% of the time, why the hell not? You think it's insane and maybe that's part of what's wrong with HC football. We don't scare or intimidate anybody. I don't think we'd scare Assumption or WPI right now. I'm sorry if that offends you or anyone but again we need to stop BS'ing ourselves. Look I like Tom Gilmore - he's a terrific guy who has run a clean program and won a PL championship. That means a whole lot, and the guys that come through the program I would be proud to have as my own sons, and can only wish to be that lucky in life. But to keep pushing forward in the same manner just because we have Hart Center renovations and some other initiatives on the horizon is the definition of insanity, and not fair to these guys. If the personnel isn't going to change, than there needs to be a philosophical change. The worst thing we can do as alumni and fans is to sit back and not voice our opinions, whether that be here, via email, phone, letter to the editors, or by no longer donating - whatever it takes. Something inherently needs to change, and change big time. We must be the most courteous, patient, and tolerable fan base on the damn planet. How do some of you older alumni feel? Don't you want to see HC football dominate again in your lifetimes? By the way, in terms of experience, I've seen surgeons who have had successful 30 year careers who can't operate themselves out of a paper bag. Screw years. The Fordham coach is in his early to mid 30s I think. I said earlier this year that Fordham's period of domination was over, and also posted during the UNH game that we were good again. Boy am I eating crow right now, but at least I admit it. |
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Post by jkh67 on Nov 18, 2016 20:55:14 GMT -5
Minus your exaggeration about running the ball 99% of the time, why the hell not? You think it's insane and maybe that's part of what's wrong with HC football. We don't scare or intimidate anybody. I don't think we'd scare Assumption or WPI right now. I'm sorry if that offends you or anyone but again we need to stop BS'ing ourselves. Look I like Tom Gilmore - he's a terrific guy who has run a clean program and won a PL championship. That means a whole lot, and the guys that come through the program I would be proud to have as my own sons, and can only wish to be that lucky in life. But to keep pushing forward in the same manner just because we have Hart Center renovations and some other initiatives on the horizon is the definition of insanity, and not fair to these guys. If the personnel isn't going to change, than there needs to be a philosophical change. The worst thing we can do as alumni and fans is to sit back and not voice our opinions, whether that be here, via email, phone, letter to the editors, or by no longer donating - whatever it takes. Something inherently needs to change, and change big time. We must be the most courteous, patient, and tolerable fan base on the damn planet. How do some of you older alumni feel? Don't you want to see HC football dominate again in your lifetimes? By the way, in terms of experience, I've seen surgeons who have had successful 30 year careers who can't operate themselves out of a paper bag. Screw years. The Fordham coach is in his early to mid 30s I think. I said earlier this year that Fordham's period of domination was over, and also posted during the UNH game that we were good again. Boy am I eating crow right now, but at least I admit it. |
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Post by jkh67 on Nov 18, 2016 21:12:05 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Nov 18, 2016 21:13:51 GMT -5
Retaining Gilmore just affirms what I've thought for awhile....we really don't care about football anymore, it's merely a platform for alumni/college events.
First "major chink" in ADNP's armour. Absolute joke that this guy is still coaching at HC.
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Post by purple1 on Nov 18, 2016 21:33:46 GMT -5
Keeping TG is a huge mistake, period. How much evidence from his body of work do you need ? Losing record - even after 4 years of schollies, recruiting players for the defensive backfield at 5'6 to 5'9 these are D-II or III players, making very little successful half time adjustments, poor clock/game management, truly poor tackling overall by his speciality expertise (defensive side), probably the least respected coach by the officials in the Northeast with horrible sideline demeanor to officials, players and coaches.
No more recruiting of players the coach can look into the eye or look down on; they must be bigger and quicker. Attack the opposing offense instead of a hit and read defense and have an offensive line that wants to go and hit someone to create some running holes. We are large and slow that every defensive line enjoys playing against in stopping our running game at the line of scrimmage. Results are in the facts and Fordham shamed the Crusaders in every facet of the game on Saturday.
If you do not make the effort to look for a different coach and game philosophy - you will not find one......
The team's confidence in their head coach has been lost and sailed into the sunset, the slippery slope is going to just get steeper in my opinion.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 18, 2016 21:44:56 GMT -5
Retaining Gilmore just affirms what I've thought for awhile....we really don't care about football anymore, it's merely a platform for alumni/college events. First "major chink" in ADNP's armour. Absolute joke that this guy is still coaching at HC. Why do you think we are building the indoor practice field if we don't care about football? Are we going to turn it over to field hockey?? |
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Post by hc87 on Nov 18, 2016 21:53:42 GMT -5
Retaining Gilmore just affirms what I've thought for awhile....we really don't care about football anymore, it's merely a platform for alumni/college events. First "major chink" in ADNP's armour. Absolute joke that this guy is still coaching at HC. Why do you think we are building the indoor practice field if we don't care about football? Are we going to turn it over to field hockey?? Tom Gilmore is not the man to lead HC football into the future....HC football has many assets going forward.....Gilmore is holding us back....why people can't see this is befuddling. I'm sure he is a very good guy, but he is a terrible head football coach, we are going nowhere under his helm. It's maddening to me that many don't see this. |
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 18, 2016 21:58:45 GMT -5
And you know this how, purple1? You ran a survey, perhaps?
You have inside knowledge, I gather, that most of us do not have.
Look, I don't see one poster who hasn't said we need changes and improve. I, for one, have griped ad nauseam about the lack of a big, bruising RB that can get you the 2-4 yards to keep a drive going. I've griped about our DBs who seem to lack the ability to either cover or tackle. The OL this season was not only large but experienced laden with seniors and 5th year seniors but they looked woeful at times. But what we see on Saturdays is the tip of the iceberg and making up things that TG is the least respected coach in the region and has lost the players' confidence without some evidence to back it up is just a cheap shot.
No question, we need to do a better job at recruiting and the play calling needs to improve, which I thought it had when we got a new offensive coordinator until we started getting significant injuries. Then plays that might have worked with first stringer skill players stopped working.
I would expect that while our head coach remains the same that TG and Nate have talked about a lot of things (and people?) that need to change, including each of their personal responsibility to change things about themselves.
I again suggest that we support the effort.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 18, 2016 22:07:52 GMT -5
Gilmore has been ovah his head for a long time...some of that was masked during the Randolph years....he is not a good head coach, we've seen that repeatedly undah his regime.
Where have you gone Edward Bennett Williams??? A college turns it lonely eye toward you.
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Post by ncaam on Nov 18, 2016 22:14:07 GMT -5
How many of this year'S starters graduate? Where does any optimism come from?
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Post by hc87 on Nov 18, 2016 22:25:55 GMT -5
That letter was akin to Juan Epstein's note to Mr Kotter btw....hilarious and pathetic. Joke. I'm actually embarrassed by it as an alumnus.
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Post by sarasota on Nov 19, 2016 0:14:50 GMT -5
KY- The new field house is a raise, but we're not all in. Until we're all in, any improvement will be marginal.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 19, 2016 2:09:37 GMT -5
That letter was akin to Juan Epstein's note to Mr Kotter btw....hilarious and pathetic. Joke. I'm actually embarrassed by it as an alumnus. Did you receive it, or have to read it on the board? |
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 19, 2016 6:57:24 GMT -5
Then you must be easily embarrassed. Take comfort, then, that the two people who wrote it are not Holy Cross grads.  |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2016 8:00:52 GMT -5
Then you must be easily embarrassed. Take comfort, then, that the two people who wrote it are not Holy Cross grads. You know better than to indulge IH's midnight musings. _________________________________ For those eager to put CTG in the rear-view mirror, I pose this question: where is the money for a buyout, and for a new coach coming from? Assuming CTG gets $500K as a buyout, and a new coach with credentials will cost at least $350,000, where is this money to be found? (Also assumes all assistants are on one-year contracts, so there is no buyout cost for them.) If you reduced this year's scollie class to about four equivalents, that would do it. Or the aggrieved alums could pass the hat, and kick in $500,000 or so. |
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Post by ncaam on Nov 19, 2016 10:40:38 GMT -5
For those eager to see more losing, why did we give ctg an extension without an easy escape clause?
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Post by purple1 on Nov 19, 2016 11:42:46 GMT -5
In response to sader1970: I know the commissioner of officials for the PL, Ivy, CAA, NESCAC and a number of the assigned officials - facts are facts. In speaking with directly associated people to the football program you can form a good consensus for discussion.
I will support the program if TG is retained, but wanted to relay my thoughts to the board.
Go Cross !!
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 19, 2016 14:08:00 GMT -5
Pure speculation on my part but I don't think it was an issue of an expensive buy-out as I am reasonably confident that Nate Pine did not make the mistake of leaving out the insertion of a cheap escape clause.
Rather, I believe that Nate respects Tom Gilmore and knows, much better than any of us, what hidden challenges TG faces at Holy Cross coupled with the more obvious injury issues this season and made a positive decision to keep TG at least one more year to see what can be accomplished with a healthier team.
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Post by alumnusdad on Nov 19, 2016 14:27:29 GMT -5
Gilmore has been ovah his head for a long time...some of that was masked during the Randolph years....he is not a good head coach, we've seen that repeatedly undah his regime. Where have you gone Edward Bennett Williams??? A college turns it lonely eye toward you. The O line is slow and flabby. Make the off season pay off by spring ball. Gilmore revels in his zero-defect mentality under the guise of demanding excellence. He dodged a bullet based on that same standard which he duly deserves. Now coach, class yourself up and deliver. BC and Navy are looming on the horizon. Let's see how you handle the pressure. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 19, 2016 15:04:15 GMT -5
Pure speculation on my part but I don't think it was an issue of an expensive buy-out as I am reasonably confident that Nate Pine did not make the mistake of leaving out the insertion of a cheap escape clause. Rather, I believe that Nate respects Tom Gilmore and knows, much better than any of us, what hidden challenges TG faces at Holy Cross coupled with the more obvious injury issues this season and made a positive decision to keep TG at least one more year to see what can be accomplished with a healthier team. I don't understand why it's so difficult for some to grasp this point. I guess it's easier to just overreact to box scores and online broadcasts than dig a layer or two deeper. |
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Post by sarasota on Nov 19, 2016 22:35:04 GMT -5
Look....we've been watching TG game after game for years. There's no room for doubt as to what we've got in him. Time to end the wishful thinking. Again.....mark my words, this decision will lead to disaster in 2018 and beyond.
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Post by HC1843 on Nov 20, 2016 7:14:32 GMT -5
If I am Nate Pine, I absolutely do not take full responsibility for the season with CTG.
That sentence was a bad idea.
Cheers.
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