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Post by purplehaze on Nov 21, 2016 10:57:04 GMT -5
our kicking game is another area that needs improvement next season. if we are to win close games, we have to rely on a fg kicker.
unrelated to HC, in a totally irrelevant game Towson beat URI 32-31. but their freshman kicker, made a 47 yd fg as time expired in the 1st half, and then made a 55 yarder as time expired in the game, to win it.
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Post by joe on Nov 21, 2016 11:02:16 GMT -5
our kicking game is another area that needs improvement next season. if we are to win close games, we have to rely on a fg kicker. unrelated to HC, in a totally irrelevant game Towson beat URI 32-31. but their freshman kicker, made a 47 yd fg as time expired in the 1st half, and then made a 55 yarder as time expired in the game, to win it. See item #8 on suggestion thread. A missed bunny field goals or XPs should be a rarity at the D1 level. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 21, 2016 11:15:25 GMT -5
our kicking game is another area that needs improvement next season. if we are to win close games, we have to rely on a fg kicker. unrelated to HC, in a totally irrelevant game Towson beat URI 32-31. but their freshman kicker, made a 47 yd fg as time expired in the 1st half, and then made a 55 yarder as time expired in the game, to win it. See item #8 on suggestion thread. A missed bunny field goals or XPs should be a rarity at the D1 level. As it should be in the NFL, were 12 extra points were missed yesterday. If it was easy to find automatic placekickers, every team would have one. |
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Post by joe on Nov 21, 2016 12:22:41 GMT -5
If I'm looking at the correct database I believe we were 8 of 15 on FGs for the season for just over 50%. FG % is always a tough stat to interpret without adjusting for distance. Without actually knowing the distances of the ones we missed and going just by memory, as I recall, there were several key misses from short range. Am I incorrect?
We did well this year with XPs, just wish we required more of them.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 21, 2016 12:33:15 GMT -5
The overall quality of high school kicking is the US is not good. That's why so many HS games end in even numbers on both sides. Most go for 2 after TD's or miss the XP. The best kickers are usually scoffed up quick by the top schools, and several schools scour places like Australia and other countries where soccer is king for kickers.
So in short - it would be very tough for HC to get a top-notch place kicker.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 21, 2016 12:49:52 GMT -5
In recent years haven't we had some excellent place kickers?
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 21, 2016 12:55:15 GMT -5
In recent years haven't we had some excellent place kickers? Yes, we have. But even the best miss at times. The 3 missed EPs in the last Giant game are a case in point. |
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Post by timholycross on Nov 21, 2016 15:34:41 GMT -5
No reason why you shouldn't have a good kicker at HC's level. Kickers tend to not get injured and if they are good they play right from the get go. So going somewhere to back someone up is just a waste of playing time. And the field is as long and the posts as high as in the bigs....if you are good the next level will find you. Adam Vinatieri comes to mind in that regard, Seattle kicker played soccer for Needham High School then started kicking at Middlebury, a noted football power.
What I didn't particularly like was some of the misses were pathetic. Not really kicked if you know what I mean. OK for a kid to miss them but give the ball a ride.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 21, 2016 16:24:08 GMT -5
That is a reminder that every placekicker needs a dependable holder!  |
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Post by timholycross on Nov 21, 2016 17:23:18 GMT -5
That is a reminder that every placekicker needs a dependable holder! Perhaps those really crappy kicks were a result of the snapper/holder/blockers not doing their jobs. I don't recall anything sticking out like that at the time, but the odds one of those factors was involved is maybe as high as 50/50. |
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Post by joe on Nov 21, 2016 17:29:47 GMT -5
That's why the suggestion I put in the other thread was focused on practicing, not on a new kicker, snapper, or holder per se. Practice the whole thing. The snap, hold, and kick. This is stupidly obvious I suppose. The point is that a D1 team shouldn't miss too many short field goals. Our special teams weren't too bad this year.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2016 18:09:53 GMT -5
I thought special teams was the most consistently good part of the team from kickoffs; kickoff coverage; punts; returns; with the exception of field goals which seemed to do well in the beginning of the season and then got more erratic as the season progressed.
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Post by bison137 on Nov 22, 2016 11:13:54 GMT -5
No reason why you shouldn't have a good kicker at HC's level. Kickers tend to not get injured and if they are good they play right from the get go. Yes, you would certainly think so. But Bucknell by mid-season was down to their #3 FG kicker and #4 punter, all due to injuries. And two years ago, they had a very good freshman FG kicker suffer a serious foot injury, requiring multiple surgeries, that ended his Bucknell football career. So you never know. |
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Post by bison137 on Nov 22, 2016 11:14:51 GMT -5
That's why the suggestion I put in the other thread was focused on practicing, not on a new kicker, snapper, or holder per se. Practice the whole thing. The snap, hold, and kick. This is stupidly obvious I suppose. The point is that a D1 team shouldn't miss too many short field goals. Our special teams weren't too bad this year. I would be surprised if HC doesn't practice the snap, hold, and kick constantly. Don't know a team that doesn't. |
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Post by joe on Nov 22, 2016 11:21:56 GMT -5
That's why the suggestion I put in the other thread was focused on practicing, not on a new kicker, snapper, or holder per se. Practice the whole thing. The snap, hold, and kick. This is stupidly obvious I suppose. The point is that a D1 team shouldn't miss too many short field goals. Our special teams weren't too bad this year. I would be surprised if HC doesn't practice the snap, hold, and kick constantly. Don't know a team that doesn't. Obviously, Bison. Clearly you missed the sarcasm. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 22, 2016 11:54:20 GMT -5
Consistently finding very good placekickers at our level is hard but some schools seemingly find a way to do it.
Two schools that always seem to have great kickers are Fordham and William & Mary.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Nov 22, 2016 12:15:48 GMT -5
Allocating scholarship dollars of any significance to a kicker is always a dicey proposition. It can work out very well as in the case of Marie from Fordham a few years ago but it can also be disastrous as kickers can lose it quickly.
With only 15 scholarships per class, it forces the coaches to make a tough decision about what position you don't offer to get a PK. My sense is that most of the kickers in The Patriot League since the scholarship era began are on little or no scholarship Aid.
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Post by beaven302 on Nov 22, 2016 13:37:59 GMT -5
In recent years haven't we had some excellent place kickers? Yes, we have. But even the best miss at times. The 3 missed EPs in the last Giant game are a case in point. Very true. Back in 2004, Mike Nugent, who now kicks for the Bengals and was regarded as close to perfect back in college, missed a key field goal allowing Northwestern to eventually get one of its rare victories over Ohio State. As for the key role of snapping and holding, if memory serves, in 1964, the chance for an 11-10 victory over BC was lost when a bad snap prevented HC from possibly kicking a field goal late in the fourth quarter. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 22, 2016 13:45:43 GMT -5
What is your basis for this belief?
Given that this thread is about how essential it is to have a good placekicker, why would scholarship money not be offered to those recruited to play this position?
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Post by hcgrad94 on Nov 22, 2016 14:24:46 GMT -5
What is your basis for this belief?
Given that this thread is about how essential it is to have a good placekicker, why would scholarship money not be offered to those recruited to play this position?
Because it's easier to get a B+ kicker for nothing and use the scholarship on an A- positional kid. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 22, 2016 14:39:42 GMT -5
Here's a look at how well our place kickers have done over the past 8 seasons. There were a couple of seasons where one kicker made only a couple of FG attempts and I chose not to include those but note that the "Total" includes all the team's kickers.
SO
Season Kicker: 0-19 FG; 20-29 FG; 30-39 FG; 40-49 FG.......TEAM TOTAL FG.....OPP TOTAL FG.....TEAM XP KICKING.....OPP XP KICKING
2009 Dornfried: 1-1; 4-6; 2-2; 0-0.....8-12.....8-11.....50-51.....31-36
2010 Dornfried: 0-0; 6-7; 3-5; 1-1.....10-13.....10-12...27-32...28-31
2011 Macomber: 0-0; 7-9; 5-5; 0-1...13-17.....10-18....21-29...24-24
2012 Macomber: 2-2; 6-6; 1-1; 1-4...10-13....13-15...25-26....32-38
2013 Macomber: 0-0; 3-3; 3-4; 1-3.....7-10....4-8...39-44....45-48
2014 Fitzgerald: 0-0; 6-7; 5-7; 0-3....14-21...9-16....23-26....35-36
2014 Wasp: 0-0; 1-2; 2-2; 0-0
2015 Fitzgerald: 0-0; 5-6; 2-6; 2-3....12-19...7-13...43-44....26-30
Wasp: 0-0; 0-0; 0-1; 3-3....
2016 Wasp: 0-0; 2-3; 2-4; 4-8.....8-15...8-14....31-31....41-45
HC 8 Year Total for Kickers above
0-19= 3 for 3= 100%
20-29= 40 for 49= 82%
30-39= 25 for 35= 71%
40-49= 12 for 26= 46%
50+= no attempts
HC All Years All Kickers
FG= 82 for 120= 68%
XP= 259 for 283= 92%
OPPONENTS All Years All Kickers
FG= 69 for 107= 64%
XP= 262 for 288= 91%
Missing from this analysis is the FG distance data for the opponents but, on the surface, it appears that HC field goal and XP kicking proficiency is in line with its PL opponents
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 22, 2016 16:04:46 GMT -5
What is your basis for this belief?
Given that this thread is about how essential it is to have a good placekicker, why would scholarship money not be offered to those recruited to play this position?
Because it's easier to get a B+ kicker for nothing and use the scholarship on an A- positional kid. Well, given our recent records, it doesn't seem like we've had a ton of luck getting the A- positional guys.
Given that it is so much harder to find bona fide high school kickers as to opposed to bona fide HS cornerbacks, for example, shouldn't it be reasonable to spend one scholarship every other year on a placekicker? After all, it is a position where if you don't have somebody decent out there, you are SCREWED.
Case in point:
Holy Cross gets the ball on their opening possession and drives down to score a TD. Extra point is NO GOOD. HC 6 Harvard 0 Harvard responds with a drive of their own that ends in a TD. Extra point is GOOD. Harvard 7 HC 6 On the next possession, HC drives down to the Harvard 16 yard line and a 33 yd FG is NO GOOD. Harvard 7 HC 6. Harvard counters by driving down to the HC 16 yard line and a 33yd FG is GOOD. Harvard 10 HC 6.
Because of the play of ONE position out of the 24 on the two deep, we spot our opponent 4 points on 2 possessions. Kickers are pretty important.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Nov 22, 2016 17:23:36 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you I just know that this is the reality of how most of the coaches in the Patriot League are approaching this. At the end of the day they would rather use a scholarship on a defensive tackle or offensive lineman than on a kicker.
My guess would be that if you ask most every college football coach what they think of kickers you would get a roll of the eyes.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 22, 2016 18:46:27 GMT -5
Place kickers can only make the difference of, what, one point or three points or maybe six points in a game depending on whether they miss XP's or a field goal or two? How often are games decided by 1 point or 3 points or 6 points?  ? |
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 22, 2016 21:24:38 GMT -5
I don't know . . . oh, yeah, this season, 2 of 11 games for us. A 21-20 loss to Bucknell and a 21-20 win against Georgetown.  |
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