|
Post by hc1998 on Dec 6, 2022 14:15:27 GMT -5
I dunno....sort of skeptical on a move to Navy. Just doesn't seem the right fit, not a big enough jump from HC to Annapolis etc. Delaware beat Navy this year for instance. Army and Navy are really only a half-step a biggah job when HC is as good a job as it is right now, and maybe not even that. Seriously? You know Niamatalalo is reported to make $2.1 million a year? I haven't paid attention to what people say Chesney does or does not make for us, but I'd assume on the low end that would be a 400% raise and could be closer to 700%. I swear some people on here probably believe Chesney should be paying us for the honor of being our HC.
|
|
Sertorius
Climbing Mt. St. James
Haters everywhere I go
Posts: 73
|
Post by Sertorius on Dec 6, 2022 14:53:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2022 14:54:14 GMT -5
IIRC, the 63 --> 60 was because of Title IX. HC is in an awkward position to argue for 63 because it is the laggard when it comes to Title IX and scollies for female sports (other than hoops and ice hockey.) HC is also drifting away from near 50:50 parity when it comes to M:F enrollment, and could find itself as Georgetown and Fordham does, where males are about 43 percent of the undergraduate population, and this further complicates the ability to increase scollies for men's sports. I'm reading this to mean Holy Cross has more maneuverability to spend the same or more to raise a winning coach's salary to retain him to compete with other FCS powers than they do to spend that money to raise male (and female to match) scholarship totals. Retaining the right coach and staff might be a better investment than three extra scholarships anyway, but you have over time educated us to the hard percentage cap on endowment distributions and raising tuition and fees must have a resistance point somewhere, so how does HC finance staying in the upper echelons of FCS going forward? Will it all fall on football specific fundraising?
|
|
|
Post by gks on Dec 6, 2022 14:55:28 GMT -5
IIRC, the 63 --> 60 was because of Title IX. HC is in an awkward position to argue for 63 because it is the laggard when it comes to Title IX and scollies for female sports (other than hoops and ice hockey.) HC is also drifting away from near 50:50 parity when it comes to M:F enrollment, and could find itself as Georgetown and Fordham does, where males are about 43 percent of the undergraduate population, and this further complicates the ability to increase scollies for men's sports. I'm reading this to mean Holy Cross has more maneuverability to spend the same or more to raise a winning coach's salary to retain him to compete with other FCS powers than they do to spend that money to raise male (and female to match) scholarship totals. Retaining the right coach and staff might be a better investment than three extra scholarships anyway, but you have over time educated us to the hard percentage cap on endowment distributions and raising tuition and fees must have a resistance point somewhere, so how does HC finance staying in the upper echelons of FCS going forward? Will it all fall on football specific fundraising? Remember when HC agreed to add football schollies they only did like 56? Play by the rules of the division you're in.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Dec 6, 2022 15:10:14 GMT -5
The 63 vs 60 policy is just about the silliest thing I have ever heard. Just what is the league accomplishing with this, other than to tie another appendage behind each team's back? Just to be different.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2022 15:13:31 GMT -5
Neon Deion staying at Jackson would have been a feel good story but I have no criticism for his moving on up. Pretty much the same as I would feel about our coach moving on up if he ever wants to. I just would like the HC PTB to make the best case possible for him to stay. Interesting that the State of Mississippi paid (white) Brett Favre more Welfare money for speeches he never made (Favre paid the money back after everything was exposed in the media I believe) than (black) Sanders for all the real positive work he did. There is room for locals to make a fuss over that and try to get the state higher education system to spend adequately to keep the program strong at Jackson State.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2022 15:14:51 GMT -5
I'm reading this to mean Holy Cross has more maneuverability to spend the same or more to raise a winning coach's salary to retain him to compete with other FCS powers than they do to spend that money to raise male (and female to match) scholarship totals. Retaining the right coach and staff might be a better investment than three extra scholarships anyway, but you have over time educated us to the hard percentage cap on endowment distributions and raising tuition and fees must have a resistance point somewhere, so how does HC finance staying in the upper echelons of FCS going forward? Will it all fall on football specific fundraising? Remember when HC agreed to add football schollies they only did like 56? Play by the rules of the division you're in. That's a solid logical argument the way you phrase it.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Dec 6, 2022 15:49:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 6, 2022 16:05:38 GMT -5
Neon Deion staying at Jackson would have been a feel good story but I have no criticism for his moving on up. Pretty much the same as I would feel about our coach moving on up if he ever wants to. I just would like the HC PTB to make the best case possible for him to stay. Interesting that the State of Mississippi paid (white) Brett Favre more Welfare money for speeches he never made (Favre paid the money back after everything was exposed in the media I believe) than (black) Sanders for all the real positive work he did. There is room for locals to make a fuss over that and try to get the state higher education system to spend adequately to keep the program strong at Jackson State. What do you think of him telling his new players to hit the road?
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 6, 2022 16:19:32 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hc1998 on Dec 6, 2022 16:20:20 GMT -5
Neon Deion staying at Jackson would have been a feel good story but I have no criticism for his moving on up. Pretty much the same as I would feel about our coach moving on up if he ever wants to. I just would like the HC PTB to make the best case possible for him to stay. Interesting that the State of Mississippi paid (white) Brett Favre more Welfare money for speeches he never made (Favre paid the money back after everything was exposed in the media I believe) than (black) Sanders for all the real positive work he did. There is room for locals to make a fuss over that and try to get the state higher education system to spend adequately to keep the program strong at Jackson State. What do you think of him telling his new players to hit the road? My understanding, from someone who saw the whole presser, was that it wasn't necessarily said literally, but more figuratively...nobody is guaranteed a spot and if you aren't ready to work, go elsewhere. Its not the worst advise, weren't they 1-11 this year?
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2022 16:27:41 GMT -5
Neon Deion staying at Jackson would have been a feel good story but I have no criticism for his moving on up. Pretty much the same as I would feel about our coach moving on up if he ever wants to. I just would like the HC PTB to make the best case possible for him to stay. Interesting that the State of Mississippi paid (white) Brett Favre more Welfare money for speeches he never made (Favre paid the money back after everything was exposed in the media I believe) than (black) Sanders for all the real positive work he did. There is room for locals to make a fuss over that and try to get the state higher education system to spend adequately to keep the program strong at Jackson State. What do you think of him telling his new players to hit the road? Not good. How did that work out for HC MBB after the most recent coaching change?
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Dec 6, 2022 16:38:45 GMT -5
One opinion (mine) is that this year's 12-0-0 record is the result of the program Coach Chesney has built. A differing opinion is that the 12-0-0 record was only made possible by the fifth year seniors being available during this one time covid window. If Chesney had come to HC but covid had never happened do people think HC would have lost to any or all of Buffalo, Fordham or UNH? Can two things be true at the same time? Chesney's built a great program AND the 5th-years were invaluable contributors to our undefeated season?
|
|
|
Post by fillfittonfield on Dec 6, 2022 16:51:11 GMT -5
PP: Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing. 800k salary pool for 10 assistants. I think that must be in the top tier for FCS programs. I’m curious what the salary pool is for our assistants and whether it’s competitive with a top level CAA program like W&M.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2022 17:20:33 GMT -5
One opinion (mine) is that this year's 12-0-0 record is the result of the program Coach Chesney has built. A differing opinion is that the 12-0-0 record was only made possible by the fifth year seniors being available during this one time covid window. If Chesney had come to HC but covid had never happened do people think HC would have lost to any or all of Buffalo, Fordham or UNH? Can two things be true at the same time? Chesney's built a great program AND the 5th-years were invaluable contributors to our undefeated season? Yes. Of course it's a combination of factors. From the first ever HC post season victory against SHU to the first ever 12 win season, non-fifth year Sluka and Coker have been instrumental. That fifth year HS PG season Sluka had in prep school is a model that works for HC even without fifth-year non-medical red shirts.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 6, 2022 17:41:31 GMT -5
W&M contract. Argue about how much he makes but here is what I look for:
My read, deferring to our many lawyers here, is that whatever he got to that point, when he's gone, he's gone. If dismissed mid-season, he gets the rest of the season (base, bonuses). If after the season is over, sayonara.
If we had this in Nelson's contract, which I suspect we don't, he'd have been an inexpensive good-bye. To me, it's ludicrous to have a contract where someone F's up royally and still gets paid for the length of the contract to do . . . . nothing. It rewards incompetence.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 6, 2022 17:44:22 GMT -5
PP: Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing. 800k salary pool for 10 assistants. I think that must be in the top tier for FCS programs. I’m curious what the salary pool is for our assistants and whether it’s competitive with a top level CAA program like W&M. In 2016, median compensation for all assistant football coaches for all of FCS was $667,000. I expect the Northeast schools would be higher because of cost of living. (Cost of living in Brookings is a lot different than in New Haven.) It is also possible that some assistant coaches might receive additional compensation for double-hatted roles that is not reflected in the compensation totals; e.g., recruiting coordinator.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Dec 6, 2022 17:49:40 GMT -5
Can two things be true at the same time? Chesney's built a great program AND the 5th-years were invaluable contributors to our undefeated season? Yes. Of course it's a combination of factors. From the first ever HC post season victory against SHU to the first ever 12 win season, non-fifth year Sluka and Coker have been instrumental. That fifth year HS PG season Sluka had in prep school is a model that works for HC even without fifth-year non-medical red shirts. Did someone suggest Sluka and Coker were 5th-years? Beyond that, Here’s a headline from earlier this year in the Telegram (includes a picture of Peter Oliver): Holy Cross fifth-year seniors are hungry for another Patriot League football title: Fourteen take advantage of NCAA's extra year of eligibility granted due to pandemic www.telegram.com/story/sports/college/2022/08/14/holy-cross-fifth-year-seniors-hungry-another-patriot-league-football-title/10311867002/
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Dec 6, 2022 17:56:18 GMT -5
If/when Coach Chesney leaves HC, under the right circumstances, I too, would think BC is where he'd go because, yes, it's not only Jesuit Catholic but he could make it work without moving which I think is very important for his family. Not sure they could afford him though! I think there are more than a few us here who feel the same way. BC seems like it would be a logical step up and as you noted, he could most likely commute to the Heights from where he and his family live. I would think BC would be very interested in interviewing him if the position opens up. It would be nice if it happened after his Crusaders won the FCS Title but I don’t think the lack of one would keep him at HC if the job at BC became vacant.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2022 18:16:37 GMT -5
Yes. Of course it's a combination of factors. From the first ever HC post season victory against SHU to the first ever 12 win season, non-fifth year Sluka and Coker have been instrumental. That fifth year HS PG season Sluka had in prep school is a model that works for HC even without fifth-year non-medical red shirts. Did someone suggest Sluka and Coker were 5th-years? Beyond that, Here’s a headline from earlier this year in the Telegram (includes a picture of Peter Oliver): Holy Cross fifth-year seniors are hungry for another Patriot League football title: Fourteen take advantage of NCAA's extra year of eligibility granted due to pandemic www.telegram.com/story/sports/college/2022/08/14/holy-cross-fifth-year-seniors-hungry-another-patriot-league-football-title/10311867002/Peter Oliver makes a good case for fifth year non-medical red shirts. He's someone that didn't take a PG year and in a visible position like running back we could see him steadily progress to have his best season as a senior at a time cost to him of only one extra semester. Especially for football, there may not be a large resistance from the rest of the PL to allow non medical red shirts. Why do Schools like Lehigh, Bucknell and Lafayette want to spend millions only to be a punching bag? Georgetown could narrow it's gap without having to finance scholarships by having non-medical red shirts available.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2022 18:31:23 GMT -5
P.P./Sader 1970, I think "to the date of termination" might mean until the end of the five year contract, not the date of firing for poor on field performance. I say that because of the requirement of the Coach to look for work after firing to be eligible to collect his severance. If so, that is probably similar to the HC MBB contract.
|
|
|
Post by cmo on Dec 6, 2022 19:09:51 GMT -5
Don't think a serious run on the National Championship is realistic without 5th-years. Last year and this year represent our only playoff wins and our only years with decent numbers of 5th-years. This year quite a few. In which case one could suggest the window is closing for HC (and Fordham, BTW) as the Covid-year players move thru (and no non-medical redshirt adjustments in PL have been made). Wonder if that is some sort a factor in Chesney's personal calculations regarding timing and a potential move? If the PL decides not to allow non-medical redshirts, I can see a roadblock to continuing to grow the program and Ches moves on unless we leave the PL? Was it Fordham who told the PL “reinstate scholarships or we’re gone!” ? Time for us to do same with non-medical redshirts!
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Dec 6, 2022 19:17:24 GMT -5
Give them a list of needs or say good luck
My bet is Fordham agrees and I don’t think they can’t stay as a league with an auto bid without us, and if we both leave the PL disappears- that would be my best Christmas gift over the past 72 years
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 6, 2022 20:20:53 GMT -5
And hopefully that summary is less accurate than the contract itself. You are correct that the "termination" could be the end of the contract period (i.e. 5 years or whatever) or it could mean the contract is terminated when he is fired. That's why lawyers get paid to sue/defend parties to a contract that isn't written precisely. One of the wonders here in America is that anyone can sue anyone for virtually anything. Not that they'd win but just the expense to defend often makes out of court settlements less onerous.
But JMJ, let's be sure all Holy Cross contracts at least try not to reward incompetence.
Some things I feel much more strongly about than any discussion about leaving the Patriot League (we shouldn't IMHO):
1.Rewarding incompetent coaches and staff, including keeping them employed
2. Not rewarding excellent coaches including assistants
3. Not getting rid of faculty who prey on students
4. Getting rid of a mascot/logo because people are mired in presentism or because they can't stand the fact that they are employed by a Catholic/Christian college but not enough to leave
(Not in order of priority)
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 7, 2022 0:05:36 GMT -5
And hopefully that summary is less accurate than the contract itself. You are correct that the "termination" could be the end of the contract period (i.e. 5 years or whatever) or it could mean the contract is terminated when he is fired. That's why lawyers get paid to sue/defend parties to a contract that isn't written precisely. One of the wonders here in America is that anyone can sue anyone for virtually anything. Not that they'd win but just the expense to defend often makes out of court settlements less onerous. But JMJ, let's be sure all Holy Cross contracts at least try not to reward incompetence. Some things I feel much more strongly about than any discussion about leaving the Patriot League (we shouldn't IMHO): 1.Rewarding incompetent coaches and staff, including keeping them employed 2. Not rewarding excellent coaches including assistants 3. Not getting rid of faculty who prey on students 4. Getting rid of a mascot/logo because people are mired in presentism or because they can't stand the fact that they are employed by a Catholic/Christian college but not enough to leave (Not in order of priority) My view is Holy Cross doesn't value the opportunity it has to offer with 27 D-1 Head Coach positions. The opportunity increases in value in the major sports. Which was why it was so stunning HC chose to (apparently) obligate itself for five years to an unproven assistant coach when it had the only D-1 MBB head coach opening in the country. One possibility is the HC selection committee relied too heavily on the guidance of the search firm telling them this is how it is done. HC should consider in-house searches for future openings. If peer institutions lose the in-house acumen of conducting a coaching search while Holy Cross has developed those skills in their staff, we would have a knowledge advantage.
|
|