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Post by clmetsfan on Sept 20, 2022 12:20:52 GMT -5
One sad note for New Yorkers is that Joan Hodges, Gil’s widow, just passed away at age 95. It’s nice that she got to see him make the Hall. I believe she still lived in the same Brooklyn house where she and Gil lived when he was a Dodger Papa Metsfan will be devastated. He grew up a few blocks from the Hodges, went to the same parish, and was grade school friends with their daughter. Only met Gil once or twice, but always says that Joan was an incredibly nice and friendly woman.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 20, 2022 12:30:25 GMT -5
As a youngster, I met Gil a few times at our parish Communion breakfasts. A gracious, kind man. In the mid 50s when my cousin, a short, Brooklyn Prep (close to Ebbets Field) freshman baseball player with a large bat bag, was walking past Ebbets Field on the way to his bus, Gil, driving his car, gave him a ride to the bus. Typical of many similar stories about a man beloved in Brooklyn.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2022 6:34:57 GMT -5
Judge hit his 60th HR last night to start a 9th inning rally that was capped by a Stanton grand slam for the win. Judge is also now in first in average, just ahead of Bogaerts. .316 vs .315.
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Post by Tom on Sept 21, 2022 6:51:35 GMT -5
Philosophical question:
Is it better to hit 62 home runs and thus set the American League record (but 7th all time in MLB (ignoring steroid opinions) or to hold on to the batting title and win the Triple Crown?
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 21, 2022 6:55:19 GMT -5
Records are made to be set.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2022 6:56:57 GMT -5
I would say the 62 because it’s something that’s never been done in the history of the game without the benefit of PEDs. Triple crown is pretty ridiculous too, of course.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 21, 2022 7:00:57 GMT -5
I'd say 62 for much the same reason...but the triple crown is certainly rare.(BTW - I just sold my Micky Mantle Tops card from his triple crown year.)
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Post by alum on Sept 21, 2022 7:12:01 GMT -5
Philosophical question: Is it better to hit 62 home runs and thus set the American League record (but 7th all time in MLB (ignoring steroid opinions) or to hold on to the batting title and win the Triple Crown? I think 62 is better because it beats the Babe and Maris (who beat Mantle in doing it.) Fewer people have hit for the triple crown in the past fifty years than have hit more than 60 home runs, but it isn't a record, it is just a stat. I also think that a hole in one is better than a double eagle even though the latter is much rarer. (You have to explain a double eagle to some people. Everyone knows what a hole in one is.) Judge is a good guy, but obviously I can't root for him to beat Xander.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Sept 21, 2022 7:23:52 GMT -5
Judge is also currently the triple slash leader (.316/.419/.703) - a better indication of his broad, individual offensive talent than the traditional triple crown numbers, one of which (RBIs) is dependent on the performance of others.
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Post by Tom on Sept 21, 2022 7:50:15 GMT -5
Just to be devil's advocate. . .
How many people know or care that Willie Keeler holds the national league record for consecutive games with a base hit (I only know that because I remember Pete Rose chasing it) or that Ty Cobb is the American League base hit leader?
Another one (and I had to look this up), Steve Garvey holds the national league record for consecutive games played. HC92 is correct, 62 would be the highest total for anyone not associated with PED's, but 62 still would rank 7th on the all time list. If we were talking about 74 all bets would be off. As I said, just playing devil's advocate here
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2022 7:56:05 GMT -5
Just to be devil's advocate. . . How many people know or care that Willie Keeler holds the national league record for consecutive games with a base hit (I only know that because I remember Pete Rose chasing it) or that Ty Cobb is the American League base hit leader? Another one (and I had to look this up), Steve Garvey holds the national league record for consecutive games played. HC92 is correct, 62 would be the highest total for anyone not associated with PED's, but 62 still would rank 7th on the all time list. If we were talking about 74 all bets would be off. As I said, just playing devil's advocate here All true. As you know, I only care about what I think and 61 is the real record to me so I’ll be excited if he hits 62.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 21, 2022 8:48:00 GMT -5
Here comes a real debate Ohtani should be the AL MVP
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 21, 2022 9:16:24 GMT -5
Triple Crown is indisputable. I'd rather Judge take that. He's already hit 60 dingers, a ridiculous feat. But, many can argue--either plausible or preposterous-- that the single season HR hitters were on PEDs but playing against juiced pitchers, never touched the stuff, or hit against worse players, and on and on. The only way Judge can take the HR crown above debate is to hit 74, like Tom said. I think it's unlikely he gets that far.
All of this is moot if the Yankees lose in the first playoff series and Judge walks in October. He's not signed. I have zero confidence he's coming back. He took in the moment yesterday at Yankee Stadium as if he'd never play there again. If it was prescient appreciation, then good for his wisdom. But it was almost like he was taking his last sips of a good scotch.
Ohtani already won an MVP. He does something that is rare on a weekly basis, but at least for when I was growing up, the best players on my baseball team pitched, and played SS or CF. We specialize as we get older, and I know, I know, it is at the MLB level-- world class-- but it's not impossible to be a complete BASEBALL player in my mind. Ohtani also doesn't play every day due to that same fact that he pitches, DHs, needs rest, etc.
Bury that argument if I sound silly: Ohtani's team is still in the cellar, lost their coach, etc. Judge's team is in first place. If you put Judge on the Angels, I argue they'd have more wins. If you take Ohtani off the Angels, they're still in the cellar. If you take Judge off the Yankees, they might have as bad, or worse, record than the Angels.
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Post by Tom on Sept 21, 2022 9:21:14 GMT -5
Here comes a real debate Ohtani should be the AL MVP No. Judge should I'll take it a step further. He didn't deserve it last year either. If there was an award for Most Outstanding Player, Ohtani should have won it last year. The name of the award is Most VALUABLE Player. As is often quoted here, if we can lose with you, we can lose without you. If your team is mathematically eliminated before Labor Day, you didn't add that much to your team. You weren't that valuable. Ohtani's teams are playing meaningless games right now. If he weren't on the team, they'd still be playing meaningful games. Where would the 2022 Yankees be without Judge?
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Post by clmetsfan on Sept 21, 2022 9:55:03 GMT -5
Here comes a real debate Ohtani should be the AL MVP No. Judge should I'll take it a step further. He didn't deserve it last year either. If there was an award for Most Outstanding Player, Ohtani should have won it last year. The name of the award is Most VALUABLE Player. As is often quoted here, if we can lose with you, we can lose without you. If your team is mathematically eliminated before Labor Day, you didn't add that much to your team. You weren't that valuable. Ohtani's teams are playing meaningless games right now. If he weren't on the team, they'd still be playing meaningful games. Where would the 2022 Yankees be without Judge? This is why the name MVP is stupid. Why should the best player theoretically be penalized because the team around him sucks? No one says that the best pitcher shouldn't win the Cy Young if he's on a losing team. Just call it Player of the Year and do away with these semantic arguments. EDIT: I'll take this a step further. One of Nick Plummer's 31 plate appearances this season resulted in a game-tying 9th inning home run against the Phillies back in May, with the Mets going on to win in 10. Now, if the Mets win the division by a single game or via tiebreaker, you can point to that moment and say "Where would the Mets be without Nick Plummer?" Using your logic, doesn't that make him a better MVP candidate than every single player on non-playoff teams?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 21, 2022 9:59:36 GMT -5
WAR Season to date
#1= 9.7 Judge #2= 8.8 Ohtani #3= 7.6 Goldschmidt
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Post by clmetsfan on Sept 21, 2022 10:06:15 GMT -5
Triple Crown is indisputable. I'd rather Judge take that. He's already hit 60 dingers, a ridiculous feat. But, many can argue--either plausible or preposterous-- that the single season HR hitters were on PEDs but playing against juiced pitchers, never touched the stuff, or hit against worse players, and on and on. The only way Judge can take the HR crown above debate is to hit 74, like Tom said. I think it's unlikely he gets that far. All of this is moot if the Yankees lose in the first playoff series and Judge walks in October. He's not signed. I have zero confidence he's coming back. He took in the moment yesterday at Yankee Stadium as if he'd never play there again. If it was prescient appreciation, then good for his wisdom. But it was almost like he was taking his last sips of a good scotch.Ohtani already won an MVP. He does something that is rare on a weekly basis, but at least for when I was growing up, the best players on my baseball team pitched, and played SS or CF. We specialize as we get older, and I know, I know, it is at the MLB level-- world class-- but it's not impossible to be a complete BASEBALL player in my mind. Ohtani also doesn't play every day due to that same fact that he pitches, DHs, needs rest, etc. Bury that argument if I sound silly: Ohtani's team is still in the cellar, lost their coach, etc. Judge's team is in first place. If you put Judge on the Angels, I argue they'd have more wins. If you take Ohtani off the Angels, they're still in the cellar. If you take Judge off the Yankees, they might have as bad, or worse, record than the Angels. Uncle Stevie gonna be coming in like Scrooge McDuck this offseason
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 21, 2022 11:06:24 GMT -5
I'm amazed there has not been a word about the role of Micky Mantle in the Maris record. They were back and forth all season, but IIRC an injury to the Mick late in the season had him sidelined for a bit setting the stage for Maris. I had been rooting for Mantle, bu was thrilled to see Maris take the crown when Mantle couldn't. I wonder how much having Mantle in there helped Maris get 61.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 21, 2022 11:38:33 GMT -5
He's not signed. I have zero confidence he's coming back. He took in the moment yesterday at Yankee Stadium as if he'd never play there again. If it was prescient appreciation, then good for his wisdom. But it was almost like he was taking his last sips of a good scotch. Uncle Stevie gonna be coming in like Scrooge McDuck this offseason I have no doubt that he's irrational bidder #1 or #2. The old quote goes something like: if you give a fair offer in free agency, you'll be third-best.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 21, 2022 11:40:22 GMT -5
I'm amazed there has not been a word about the role of Micky Mantle in the Maris record. They were back and forth all season, but IIRC an injury to the Mick late in the season had him sidelined for a bit setting the stage for Maris. I had been rooting for Mantle, bu was thrilled to see Maris take the crown when Mantle couldn't. I wonder how much having Mantle in there helped Maris get 61. I wasn't alive so interested to know thoughts... I would have guessed the opposite. Mantle was already a Yankee legend/beloved, so the fans were probably hoping he'd get the crown and NOT Maris. Wasn't Maris' hair falling out and there was intense pressure and angst on him? Once Mantle goes down and he's no longer an option, I still wonder how many fans would rather Maris breath Ruth's record rather than the baton being grabbed by Mantle, even if it meant a Yankee still held the title.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2022 11:41:27 GMT -5
Here comes a real debate Ohtani should be the AL MVP Not really much of a debate: The hitting numbers aren’t close. While Ohtani has been a very good pitcher, he’s not been good enough to make him a serious Cy Young contender (4th or 5th probably) or a serious MVP contender vs Judge. HR 1. Judge 60 4. Ohtani 34 RBI 1. Judge 128 T17. Ohtani 89 Avg 1. Judge .316 47. Ohtani .268 OPS 1. Judge 1.123 9. Ohtani .891 WAR: 1. 9.7 57. 3.5 Ohtani AL Pitching Stat Ranks: ERA: 7th 2.43 Wins: T12th 13-8 IP: T46th 148 WAR: 4th 5.3 WHIP: 16th 1.04 K: T7th 196 K/9: 1st 11.9
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Post by HC92 on Sept 21, 2022 11:43:29 GMT -5
I'm amazed there has not been a word about the role of Micky Mantle in the Maris record. They were back and forth all season, but IIRC an injury to the Mick late in the season had him sidelined for a bit setting the stage for Maris. I had been rooting for Mantle, bu was thrilled to see Maris take the crown when Mantle couldn't. I wonder how much having Mantle in there helped Maris get 61. I wasn't alive so interested to know thoughts... I would have guessed the opposite. Mantle was already a Yankee legend/beloved, so the fans were probably hoping he'd get the crown and NOT Maris. Wasn't Maris' hair falling out and there was intense pressure and angst on him? Once Mantle goes down and he's no longer an option, I still wonder how many fans would rather Maris breath Ruth's record rather than the baton being grabbed by Mantle, even if it meant a Yankee still held the title. A friend of mine who was a Yankees bat boy in the 60s wrote a book and does book signings. Thinking this could be an epic Crossports event given the interest in Yankees history from that era.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 21, 2022 11:44:05 GMT -5
I lived through it and hung own every game. Some did not consider Maris a "real" Yankee. I did and I felt you were Yankee a soon as you put on that uniform. Of course it was less of a "revolving door" back then than it is today.
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Post by Tom on Sept 21, 2022 11:45:58 GMT -5
I'm amazed there has not been a word about the role of Micky Mantle in the Maris record. They were back and forth all season, but IIRC an injury to the Mick late in the season had him sidelined for a bit setting the stage for Maris. I had been rooting for Mantle, bu was thrilled to see Maris take the crown when Mantle couldn't. I wonder how much having Mantle in there helped Maris get 61. same way Sosa and McGwire pushed each other - and to a lesser extent in crunch time, Griffey
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Post by newfieguy74 on Sept 21, 2022 11:49:55 GMT -5
Here comes a real debate Ohtani should be the AL MVP I am a Boston sports fan so, as it is difficult to be gracious about NY sports, I have been silent, but I feel Judge should be the MVP. Ohtani is amazing, but the Yankees have endured some slumps this season that might have been worse if not for Judge.
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