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Post by hcpride on Sept 20, 2022 8:57:46 GMT -5
Horrible and widespread chant directed at BYU during their game against University of Oregon: (CNN) The University of Oregon has issued an apology after some students yelled a bigoted chant during Saturday's football game against Utah's Brigham Young University.
The university "sincerely apologizes for an offensive and disgraceful chant coming from the student section" during the game, it said in a statement on Twitter.
"These types of actions go against everything the university stands for, and it goes against the spirit of competition," the statement said. "We can and will do better as a campus community that has no place for hate, bias or bigotry."amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/19/sport/university-of-oregon-football-game-mormon-chant/index.htmlBYU was the recent victim of a hate hoax and no mention if the two disgraceful events are in any way connected: amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/09/us/duke-volleyball-player-racist-comment-byu-investigation/index.html |
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 20, 2022 9:07:41 GMT -5
The connection may well be in the fact that there are some who believed the first story. Whatever the cause, it is disgraceful. I had been unaware of South Carolina cancelling scheduled games with BYU or that when there was no evidence that such a thing happened, the coaches stood by her decision and SC is still are cancelling the BYU games. 7 Another disgrace.  . |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 20, 2022 9:59:04 GMT -5
This is national news if you swapped out Mormon for Muslim.
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Post by Tom on Sept 20, 2022 10:00:17 GMT -5
Assuming the hate hoax you referred to was the volleyball link, I can't believe the two incidents were in any way connected. The actions of a single student in Utah and a group of students in Oregon are not likely to be related - especially since there were different targets.
The volleyball article doesn't mention specifically mention what the heckling was and the article gave the impression that they decided the taunts were not racist in nature. However, one of the links in the article is specific about the racial nature. It is strange that these repeated comments weren't caught on audio of the match and no interviewed fans heard them (very different than the Oregon scenario)
If I were the reporter who wrote that story, I might have tried contacting some of the Duke team mates to ask if they heard anything
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Post by Tom on Sept 20, 2022 10:01:37 GMT -5
This is national news if you swapped out Mormon for Muslim. It happened in Oregon and I heard about it in MA. That's kind of national |
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 20, 2022 10:02:05 GMT -5
After what their lacrosse team went through with a false accusation, one might expect them to be more sensitive to such an issue.
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Post by alum on Sept 20, 2022 10:16:26 GMT -5
The connection may well be in the fact that there are some who believed the first story. Whatever the cause, it is disgraceful. I had been unaware of South Carolina cancelling scheduled games with BYU or that when there was no evidence that such a thing happened, the coaches stood by her decision and SC is still are cancelling the BYU games. 7 Another disgrace. . I would quibble with the "found no evidence" language. They had had "some evidence" (the player's statement) but chose to believe what they describe as a thorough investigation. That is their right but they ought to be more precise. |
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Post by alum on Sept 20, 2022 10:17:29 GMT -5
After what their lacrosse team went through with a false accusation, one might expect them to be more sensitive to such an issue. That was definitely a false accusation. Of course, the fact that the team was hiring a stripper for a party did not reflect well on them or the school. |
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Post by hcpride on Sept 20, 2022 11:11:43 GMT -5
After a rather thorough investigation, nothing was found to support the Duke volleyball player’s allegation. The allegation itself got very wide publicity but the subsequent debunking got relatively little. (And the accuser and her non-eyewitness supporters in the media have gone completely and interestingly silent.) www.carolinajournal.com/opinion/duke-must-answer-for-false-race-allegation/Since we’re talking BYU in both cases I suspected the Oregon State fans hadn’t gotten the full story and that might have contributed to their disgusting and universally condemned chant this past weekend. Although the media has not connected the two. |
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Post by Tom on Sept 20, 2022 12:27:31 GMT -5
The connection may well be in the fact that there are some who believed the first story. Whatever the cause, it is disgraceful. I had been unaware of South Carolina cancelling scheduled games with BYU or that when there was no evidence that such a thing happened, the coaches stood by her decision and SC is still are cancelling the BYU games. 7 Another disgrace. . I would quibble with the "found no evidence" language. They had had "some evidence" (the player's statement) but chose to believe what they describe as a thorough investigation. That is their right but they ought to be more precise. Per the article there was no evidence that a certain individual did this. Unless the volleyball player pointed out that individual that statement is accurate. Also BYU's phrasing here takes into account that the initial complaint is evidence . Also, if I take the school at its word Not only the school calling their investigation thorough, but I also would label what is described in this quote as a thorough investigation |
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Post by HC92 on Sept 20, 2022 12:59:46 GMT -5
There’s a desire by some in politics and the media for open racial bigotry and race conflict to be much more common than it actually is in the real world. No idea how that helps anyone, but it’s definitely a goal of some to find or create racial conflict wherever they can. The fact that someone like Jussie Smollett can do what he did and still be celebrated by some instead of universally condemned is amazing to me.
As Charles Barkley said last year, "I truly believe in my heart most white people and Black people are awesome people, but we're so stupid following our politicians, whether they're Republicans or Democrats, and their only job is, 'Hey, let's make these people not like each other. We don't live in their neighborhoods, we all got money, let's make the whites and Blacks not like each other, let's make rich people and poor people not like each other, let's scramble the middle class.'"
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Post by alum on Sept 20, 2022 14:28:27 GMT -5
As Tom points out, all BYU did was clear one fan and the second part of the statement which appeared lower in the article does talk about "supporting evidence" which I will acknowledge I did not notice. I agree that the investigation appears to be thorough but, of course, we only have BYU's word for it. I agree that there are those who cause these blowups for their own personal reasons but I also have seen no reason why the Duke player would have reason to make this up.
A thread ostensibly about religious bigotry brought up race in the first post and away we went. I don't know if pride was looking for that to happen but when you accuse someone of lying (that's what he did to the Duke player when he said the story was a hoax) about America's original sin, you know there will be a debate.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 20, 2022 14:42:26 GMT -5
As Tom points out, all BYU did was clear one fan and the second part of the statement which appeared lower in the article does talk about "supporting evidence" which I will acknowledge I did not notice. I agree that the investigation appears to be thorough but, of course, we only have BYU's word for it. I agree that there are those who cause these blowups for their own personal reasons but I also have seen no reason why the Duke player would have reason to make this up. A thread ostensibly about religious bigotry brought up race in the first post and away we went. I don't know if pride was looking for that to happen but when you accuse someone of lying (that's what he did to the Duke player when he said the story was a hoax) about America's original sin, you know there will be a debate. Global original sin? |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 20, 2022 14:53:26 GMT -5
I agree that there are those who cause these blowups for their own personal reasons but I also have seen no reason why the Duke player would have reason to make this up. Her godmother, Lesa Pamplin, is some kind of politician in Texas and has shared some colorful tweets in the past. She has since made her twitter private (they tend to do this after being outed), but this article here has some screen shots: www.outkick.com/duke-volleyball-players-godmother-shows-troubling-past-with-racist-remarks/Pamplin was the one who initially broke this story of her goddaughter by tweeting: “My Goddaughter is the only Black starter for Dukes volleyball team. While playing yesterday, she was called a n****r every time she served. She was threatened by a white male that told her to watch her back going to the team bus. A police officer had to be put by their bench.” As we now have come to learn, this is fiction. Who really knows of the motivations to concoct a story like this and whether or not it was pre-meditated...but Lesa Pamplin didn't let a good race hustling opportunity go to waste. Given her past history manufacturing stories like this, would it surprise anyone if she was behind this? 92 nailed it with his post earlier. |
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Post by alum on Sept 20, 2022 15:20:12 GMT -5
I don't know if the Duke player was telling the truth. Some of you are certain she was not. I don't see us reaching a consensus. FWIW, with those stances we are a lot closer than we have been on a lot of other issues. Just don't use this story to jump to the conclusion that the next one isn't true. Each case rises and falls on its own merit.
And remember, until the video came out, most people did not believe that Ahmaud Arbury was lynched.
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Post by mm67 on Sept 20, 2022 16:42:46 GMT -5
ADL & SPLC are good sources which track the number of ethnic/religious based hate crimes in America. There has always been an undercurrent or more of anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic, anti Mormon, anti-Muslim in other words racism & bigotry directed against anyone who we perceive as different and therefore a threat. As we have become more polarized we have become more intolerant. These crimes and types of behavior are on the rise. Various media outlets have found fertile ground to spread hateful messages. It is very difficult to counter a message which evokes a deep emotional response. All I can add is "Teach Your Children Well."
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Post by HC92 on Sept 20, 2022 18:15:47 GMT -5
Having read all of the available statements by the player, relatives and the schools in question, my feeling is that the most probable scenario is that the player believed what she said. She could be a great actress but she called her father right after the game and gave him her account including that a fan had used racial slurs repeatedly. The fact that not one person, including any teammate from Duke, has come forward to in any way corroborate her allegation, and that there is no audio or video evidence that supports the allegation, strongly suggests that she was mistaken. The fact that there was no contemporaneous reaction on a college campus to someone repeatedly being called the “n word makes it all the more unlikely to have actually happened.
This story gets to the broader issue which is that when we raise young people to believe that all black people are perpetual victims in America and that many white people are racists and the product of a systemically racist society, people are going to see and hear racism where it might not actually exist. My preference would that we dial back the victim/victimizer talk in our schools and just raise kids to respect each other no matter what someone looks like, what God they worship, how much money they have or whether they are attracted to people of the same or the opposite sex. The more regular interactions kids have with other kids who are different than them in some way, the better chance we have to not have to talk about this stuff for generations to come.
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Post by rf1 on Sept 21, 2022 8:33:16 GMT -5
This happened in the same week that Catholic Father Coughlin's anti semitism is getting time in the Ken Burns documentary on the Holocaust. The series shows that the US was in the time leading up to the holcaust full of religious bigotry, xenophobia, and anti immigrant sentiments.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 21, 2022 11:58:11 GMT -5
This happened in the same week that Catholic Father Coughlin's anti semitism is getting time in the Ken Burns documentary on the Holocaust. The series shows that the US was in the time leading up to the holcaust full of religious bigotry, xenophobia, and anti immigrant sentiments. I had two Jewish girls in my core class of kids who went through grade school together in the six classroom schoolhouse in my section of town, one class per grade. Their fathers both owned businesses. I gradually noticed other businesses in town were owned by Jews and asked my father why so many businesses were owned by Jewish people. "Because they can't get into the unions." He said. I felt an admiration for Jews and their response to bigotry that day as a little kid that never left me. That admiration was reinforced at home. I was lucky because I did pick up on Catholic Anti-semitism when I got to a Catholic High School, which I always found ironic. |
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 21, 2022 12:11:06 GMT -5
I grew up in the garment district (through my mother) and saw both anti-Jewish racism and the Jewish response to it first hand. It helped to set up many of my own coping mechanisms. (BTW, at graduation I got a telegram delivered by a guy in a WWII era Western Union outfit. It came from my mother's colleagues in the garment district and I still remember exactly what it said. "Congratulations on your degree, Robert. But Holy Cross? We all thought you were studying to be a rabbi! Mazel tov"  ) |
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 21, 2022 12:23:48 GMT -5
Emails are just not the same.🙂
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 30, 2022 8:15:49 GMT -5
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Post by newfieguy74 on Sept 30, 2022 8:50:46 GMT -5
I grew up in the garment district (through my mother) and saw both anti-Jewish racism and the Jewish response to it first hand. It helped to set up many of my own coping mechanisms. (BTW, at graduation I got a telegram delivered by a guy in a WWII era Western Union outfit. It came from my mother's colleagues in the garment district and I still remember exactly what it said. "Congratulations on your degree, Robert. But Holy Cross? We all thought you were studying to be a rabbi! Mazel tov" ) IIRC the Class of 1972 had a member who became a rabbi (Norman Cohen). |
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Post by Tom on Sept 30, 2022 9:02:04 GMT -5
The soccer story from BYU differs from the Duke volleyball player in that more than one person heard the chant.
Something happened because BYU made an announcement at the game per their own quote to the reporter
Although that BYU statement reads more like they're claiming fans were chanting "stand up" during the national anthem versus "stand up, n$#^%"
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 30, 2022 13:56:56 GMT -5
If you want to use the United States Flag to demonstrate for or against a social issue, do it at your home arena/field. While visiting other campuses, be polite guests and defer to the home roster and whatever they are demonstrating for or against.
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