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Post by hcgrad94 on Nov 26, 2016 17:48:23 GMT -5
94, and you would know this how? If you, in fact, graduated from HC in '94, Jack had moved on and Blaney was coach. There seems consensus that Ralph Willard was a pretty good coach and his career record at HC is 192-117 for a .615 winning percentage. Ralph indeed brought Crusader basketball back from the nadir. Jack's HC career record was 106-66 for a .616 winning percentage. While it is true Jack had schollies the whole time, Ralph got schollies when many of our opponents did not. While we played some patsies under Jack, we also routinely played a much better BC team twice a year, PC and St. John's regularly and even a game against invincible UCLA. I am not saying RW was a mediocre coach but neither was Jack. Had a close relative who was a very good player for Donahue. Said he was more concerned with telling stories than coaching them up.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 26, 2016 17:59:41 GMT -5
Jack was a good coach (and he could work a ref with the best of them), but he was a notch below CRW and CBC. Good but not outstanding. The HC schedule was not that strong back then - with some notable exceptions. His win overSt John's at the Redmen's court was one of his best!
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 26, 2016 18:04:04 GMT -5
Respectfully, Rob, the schedule was probably as good or better than we've been playing the last 15 years. Again, first to admit we played the Assumptions and Stonehills of the world but you know St. John's, PC, BC and others on the schedule were "pound for pound" better than who we play now or under Willard's reign.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 26, 2016 18:12:10 GMT -5
Jack had less than adequate facilities during his tenure. Hard to be highly successful when your selling point was the Field House as your practice court.
Interesting story, Jack introduced me to Joe "jelly bean" Bryant, who was being recruited by HC. The introduction was in the spring of 1971, in the old caf, on the second floor of Hogan. He could have been a 'Sader, and maybe a real long shot, his son as well. 😎
If you are not familiar with "jelly bean" Bryant, you don't know basketball.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 26, 2016 18:16:25 GMT -5
HC's schedules during Donohue's era were much tougher in toto than we face today imo. Before my time but he was good enough to be named the Canadian national coach after leaving the Hill.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 26, 2016 18:17:03 GMT -5
Let's not forget St Michael's annual visit and a a number of other teams on those schedules (some no longer Div 1). Also, some teams that are now seen as strong were not that powerful back in the day. He was one of the best story tellers without a doubt. Although when I brought him to speak at Bergen Catholic's award dinner, one of his stories almost got me fired. (I loved his story, but the principal did not have much of a sense of humor.) He would tell real stories from his NY days (at Power Memorial) and then insert a classic gag as the finale.
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Post by HC13 on Nov 26, 2016 18:25:01 GMT -5
Final Yale 3-1, this a hockey thread?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 26, 2016 18:59:02 GMT -5
Final Yale 3-1, this a hockey thread? Thanks 13. Yet another thread that jumped the rails.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 26, 2016 22:59:47 GMT -5
Jack coached in a completely different era: different enrollment (2,000 or so men vs maybe 1,400 now), different admission standards, different schedule, different D1 basketball landscape and HC's place in it.
He did well; only problem was that when it came to tournaments, his teams were always outside looking in, which soured his reputation with a lot of people.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 26, 2016 23:12:43 GMT -5
Jack coached in a completely different era: different enrollment (2,000 or so men vs maybe 1,400 now), different admission standards, different schedule, different D1 basketball landscape and HC's place in it. He did well; only problem was that when it came to tournaments, his teams were always outside looking in, which soured his reputation with a lot of people. And the two tournaments were far more difficult to make
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Post by Xmassader on Nov 26, 2016 23:31:08 GMT -5
Soured because his teams never made the NIT or NCAA tournaments and went a combined 4-17 in the last 3 games of each of his 7 seasons, including 0-7 vs. BC (all at home)--usually the final "hat trick" of Providence, St. John's and BC where, in a given year, 1 or 2 wins in those games would have clinched a bid. 10-13, 16-9, 15-8, 16-8, 16-9, 18-8 and 15-12 in his 7 yrs. with some of the best Crusaders in the last 50 yrs.---Keith Hochstein, Al Stazinski, Ed Siudut (RIP), Bob Kissane, Jackie Adams, Stan Grayson, Buddy Venne (RIP), Gene Doyle, Jim Schnurr and Kevin Stacom('70-'71 only).
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Post by hc87 on Nov 26, 2016 23:32:58 GMT -5
This is what I'm talking about vis a vis HC hockey and its support here or in general....we lost to a recent NCAA champ in hockey 3-1 tonight and we are talking about a HC basketball coach from 40+ years ago in this thread....why is there so little support for hockey?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 26, 2016 23:59:28 GMT -5
This is what I'm talking about vis a vis HC hockey and its support here or in general....we lost to a recent NCAA champ in hockey 3-1 tonight and we are talking about a HC basketball coach from 40+ years ago in this thread....why is there so little support for hockey? You brought up basketball. Why does hockey seem to get so little activity here, particularly in comparison to football and/or hoop? If we had played ND in either of those sports yesterday....and played them very competitively (kudos Sader pucksters!) like we did, Id say the thread for those games would be about 10 pages long at the very least. Is it no real institutional history at the D1 level until recently? Hockey too much of a niche sport? Both? Other reasons? And also answered your own question. HC is a basketball school.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 27, 2016 0:00:42 GMT -5
This is what I'm talking about vis a vis HC hockey and its support here or in general....we lost to a recent NCAA champ in hockey 3-1 tonight and we are talking about a HC basketball coach from 40+ years ago in this thread....why is there so little support for hockey? And some want to make an incremental 7-figure annual investment into this program.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 27, 2016 0:02:15 GMT -5
Actually, I didn't....my initial foray into this thread was, "why so few posts?" basically....I'm really not anti-hockey in general, but I'm puzzled at why so few people follow it here on Crossports.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 27, 2016 0:24:42 GMT -5
Actually, I didn't....my initial foray into this thread was, "why so few posts?" basically....I'm really not anti-hockey in general, but I'm puzzled at why so few people follow it here on Crossports. Because HC plays schools that no one cares about in yet another far-flung league, and has zero tradition in any sport with its two closest league "rivals": AIC & Bentley.
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Post by cruskater31 on Nov 27, 2016 1:25:33 GMT -5
Disappointing loss tonight to Yale. They are a good program and have some big bodies that gave us fits in front of the net, but they are having an abismal season. Any talk of playing a recent national champion was merely an attempt to drum up support from those who don't follow NCAA hockey as closely as some.
After my sophomore year, during which I endured a 10 hour bus ride to DC to watch my friends loose in the PL Championship to American (to be fair they triple teamed Drew Beinert), hockey gained in popularity amoung students as the support for bball wained. I played in pep band when I didn't have a hockey game and not only did we not play at hockey games, I witnessed abysmal student support at bball games against AU and Bucknell. Those were marquee games my first few years. I was heartened to see the HC pep band at the hockey games and an overall rowdy atmosphere at the Hart Centre. With the low ceiling (aluminum at that) it can get very loud. Even the young ladies stopped by to watch a few periods of play before heading out. I agree with h 87, weird to see a lack of support for puck on this board, despite hockey having more success the last 10 years. Save for last year's remarkable run, former HCPP had far more playoff success than HCMB or the other bball coach I have tried hard to forget. HCRW and HCBC are significantly better than those middle two coaches. HCDB's commitment to the hockey team and building the program is outstanding. He got a nice shoutout from the ND announcers last night and they lauded HC as a possible replacement in HE. Curious to see what happens to our USCHO and Pairwise ranking this week
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Post by cruskater31 on Nov 27, 2016 1:28:32 GMT -5
UPDATE: after the 2 losses this weekend, our pairwise dropped from 31 to 43 and our record now stands at 5-5-2. Tough schedule but we needed 2 points against Yale. 2-2 against ranked HE and ECAC fors is not bad, but not elite. We could compete in HE but not have great success. UCONN does bring hope with their recent trouncing of BU.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 27, 2016 6:38:26 GMT -5
OK, trying to bring this back about hockey, I don't think anyone is claiming that the current skill level on the Holy Cross team would be contending for a HE crown. I think it is a valid point that if we were in the HE right now, we would not lose every game and the reputation of HE participation would draw better skilled players for the future to the point that we could contend some years later. XMass and tim nailed the issue with Jack Donohue. We never could seem to finish out a season strong but the competition was tougher and, as hoops said, it was a lot more difficult to get into a post season tournament. He was not a mediocre coach, he was good and solid and well above average but not great. So, on a 5 point scale of a performance evaluation, he was neither a "3" nor a "5" but a solid "4." You may resume your hockey talk.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 27, 2016 8:00:09 GMT -5
With only 1 win in our last 6 games (hockey, that is), I have to wonder what is wrong with this picture? There was one tie was with AIC and the one win was against Mercyhurst. Is anyone injured or is it just that the schedule is too difficult? It does seem strange to read calls for a tougher schedule with bigger name opponents when 5-5-2 is the record of this team. Any insights on this?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 27, 2016 8:05:44 GMT -5
Soured because his teams never made the NIT or NCAA tournaments and went a combined 4-17 in the last 3 games of each of his 7 seasons, including 0-7 vs. BC (all at home)--usually the final "hat trick" of Providence, St. John's and BC where, in a given year, 1 or 2 wins in those games would have clinched a bid. 10-13, 16-9, 15-8, 16-8, 16-9, 18-8 and 15-12 in his 7 yrs. with some of the best Crusaders in the last 50 yrs.---Keith Hochstein, Al Stazinski, Ed Siudut (RIP), Bob Kissane, Jackie Adams, Stan Grayson, Buddy Venne (RIP), Gene Doyle, Jim Schnurr and Kevin Stacom('70-'71 only). We certainly had good players, and should have had some wins vs those teams, but we were underdog in most or all of those games. Jimmy Walker, Mike Riordan, Dexter Westbrook, Terry Driscoll, Billy Evans, Billy Schaefer, Sonny Dove, many of these All-Americans and pros, are just a few names of those opponents. As 70 says, Jack was a good, not mediocre coach
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Post by hchoops on Nov 27, 2016 8:24:41 GMT -5
94, and you would know this how? If you, in fact, graduated from HC in '94, Jack had moved on and Blaney was coach. There seems consensus that Ralph Willard was a pretty good coach and his career record at HC is 192-117 for a .615 winning percentage. Ralph indeed brought Crusader basketball back from the nadir. Jack's HC career record was 106-66 for a .616 winning percentage. While it is true Jack had schollies the whole time, Ralph got schollies when many of our opponents did not. While we played some patsies under Jack, we also routinely played a much better BC team twice a year, PC and St. John's regularly and even a game against invincible UCLA. I am not saying RW was a mediocre coach but neither was Jack. Had a close relative who was a very good player for Donahue. Said he was more concerned with telling stories than coaching them up. A very weak argument that You are basing your judgment of this coach on the opinion of one player. I could give you 20+ of his players whom I know personally who would strongly disagree.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Nov 27, 2016 9:02:27 GMT -5
Had a close relative who was a very good player for Donahue. Said he was more concerned with telling stories than coaching them up. A very weak argument that You are basing your judgment of this coach on the opinion of one player. I could give you 20+ of his players whom I know personally pwho would strongly disagree. They never made the postseason.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 27, 2016 9:12:23 GMT -5
Correct, but as I have mentioned the criteria was much more difficult in those days. As has also been pointed out on this thread, his winning percentage was slightly better than RW who is rightly cansidered a fine coach, and JD faced a more challenging schedule.
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Post by jflare on Nov 27, 2016 14:10:32 GMT -5
Bad weekend for Hockey. Nothing really matters with this team though until March. Show us something in March ( other than a quick post season exit ) and maybe people will start to pay attention. Until then same old same old. Team is not real good. Really just average.
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