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Post by hc87 on Dec 1, 2022 22:23:03 GMT -5
Paying a basketball coach 500K at Holy Cross at this level is patently absurd...high school teams in Massachusetts regularly draw bettah crowds....and many are bettah coached.....most make about 7-10K.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:26:36 GMT -5
Post by hceconhist on Dec 1, 2022 22:26:36 GMT -5
Paying a basketball coach 500K at Holy Cross at this level is patently absurd...high school teams in Massachusetts regularly draw bettah crowds....and many are bettah coached.....most make about 7-10K. In that vein, I doubt you will see it happen. Unless faculty perspectives have changed in the past decade (LOL), there will be a riot among professors (especially in the Humanities) if the basketball coach of a team literally ranked in the bottom 5% is paid $500K/year.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:30:21 GMT -5
Post by efg72 on Dec 1, 2022 22:30:21 GMT -5
Different times
If we were ranked around 150 you could get away with $450 or so, but we are at the bottom of the barrel. Need to pay for a rebuild and win and reach respectability in year two
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Dec 1, 2022 22:33:44 GMT -5
Post by hceconhist on Dec 1, 2022 22:33:44 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the approach. I am just very skeptical it will happen.
The school has shown time and again that they really do not care about athletics. In fact, the "reprioritization" of athletics is often complimented.
While these are different times, I sadly do not think the school has adopted.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:33:50 GMT -5
Post by efg72 on Dec 1, 2022 22:33:50 GMT -5
Paying a basketball coach 500K at Holy Cross at this level is patently absurd...high school teams in Massachusetts regularly draw bettah crowds....and many are bettah coached.....most make about 7-10K. In that vein, I doubt you will see it happen. Unless faculty perspectives have changed in the past decade (LOL), there will be a riot among professors (especially in the Humanities) if the basketball coach of a team literally ranked in the bottom 5% is paid $500K/year. A two year lag time in 990s By that point we will be on the right track and faculty will be forced to live with it.
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Dec 1, 2022 23:15:53 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 1, 2022 23:15:53 GMT -5
Paying a basketball coach 500K at Holy Cross at this level is patently absurd...high school teams in Massachusetts regularly draw bettah crowds....and many are bettah coached.....most make about 7-10K. In that vein, I doubt you will see it happen. Unless faculty perspectives have changed in the past decade (LOL), there will be a riot among professors (especially in the Humanities) if the basketball coach of a team literally ranked in the bottom 5% is paid $500K/year. Excellent point. There was no riot when Coach Chesney was rewarded for results. Chesney may have granted a geographic "hometown discount" when he arrived but to your point it is more accurate to say he accepted an "opportunity discount" for the chance to test his D-2,3 winning ways in D-1 and it worked out well for both coach and college. I'd like a current head coach who has great winning experience but needs to accept an "opportunity discount" to break into D-1 and is psyched to get that opportunity with a skinny buy out option if he doesn't win at HC and an initial salary the faculty and other constituencies (the tuition and fee payers for one) can live with. I wouldn't pay market rate for a D-1 retread head coach with a career losing record at another low/mid major like Gallagher. That's exactly the route HC went with Coach Brown. If you can't get over .500 for your tenure at Mt. St. Mary’s or Hartford, why would you at Holy Cross which has stricter admission standards resulting in narrower recruiting and transfer options?
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Dec 1, 2022 23:38:38 GMT -5
Post by hceconhist on Dec 1, 2022 23:38:38 GMT -5
In that vein, I doubt you will see it happen. Unless faculty perspectives have changed in the past decade (LOL), there will be a riot among professors (especially in the Humanities) if the basketball coach of a team literally ranked in the bottom 5% is paid $500K/year. Excellent point. There was no riot when Coach Chesney was rewarded for results. Chesney may have granted a geographic "hometown discount" when he arrived but to your point it is more accurate to say he accepted an "opportunity discount" for the chance to test his D-2,3 winning ways in D-1 and it worked out well for both coach and college. I'd like a current head coach who has great winning experience but needs to accept an "opportunity discount" to break into D-1 and is psyched to get that opportunity with a skinny buy out option if he doesn't win at HC and an initial salary the faculty and other constituencies (the tuition and fee payers for one) can live with. I wouldn't pay market rate for a D-1 retread head coach with a career losing record at another low/mid major like Gallagher. That's exactly the route HC went with Coach Brown. If you can't get over .500 for your tenure at Mt. St. Mary’s or Hartford, why would you at Holy Cross which has stricter admission standards resulting in narrower recruiting and transfer options? I hear that point re: Coach Brown's tenure at MSM, but I think it's bit misleading. At MSM, he did what efg72 and other says they want the next HC coach to do: schedule a high-profile OOC slate which led to losses. His NEC record, especially towards the end, was fantastic and his teams were perennially competing for championships. I care much more about your team's record in years 4 and 5 than year 1. That's why this year is so damning for Coach Nelson here. That said, your point about admissions is spot on. Knowing how to recruit at Holy Cross is very tough. That's why I think coaching Xs and Os is more important than being a top level recruiter. You have to be able to adjust when admissions rejects your top preferences. I am not saying I like it, but it is what it is. At this point, we are dealing with almost 40 year precedent. That's the tradition at Holy Cross now, not flirting with the Big East. The right coach will accept those parameters and work with them.
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Dec 1, 2022 23:55:10 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Dec 1, 2022 23:55:10 GMT -5
If we were in the Big East (which we should have been) a 500K hoop salary makes sense....it makes zero sense when we are in the Patriot League.
I've fought this battle for too long....the school is sanguine with our PL affiliation....we aren't changing at this point. The Patriot League has basically become part of HC's DNA today. It is what it it is....works well for football but HC basketball has suffered immeasureably with our PL affiliation.
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Dec 2, 2022 0:21:44 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 2, 2022 0:21:44 GMT -5
If we were in the Big East (which we should have been) a 500K hoop salary makes sense....it makes zero sense when we are in the Patriot League. I've fought this battle for too long....the school is sanguine with our PL affiliation....we aren't changing at this point. The Patriot League has basically become part of HC's DNA today. It is what it it is....works well for football but HC basketball has suffered immeasureably with our PL affiliation. Did the PL help get HC into the NCAA tournament under Willard and Carmody and the NIT under Willard? Did Fordham (7-1 this year. Congrats Rams) get into the national post season as often in those years out of the A-10?
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Post by hc87 on Dec 2, 2022 0:41:09 GMT -5
If we were in the Big East (which we should have been) a 500K hoop salary makes sense....it makes zero sense when we are in the Patriot League. I've fought this battle for too long....the school is sanguine with our PL affiliation....we aren't changing at this point. The Patriot League has basically become part of HC's DNA today. It is what it it is....works well for football but HC basketball has suffered immeasureably with our PL affiliation. Did the PL help get HC into the NCAA tournament under Willard and Carmody and the NIT under Willard? Did Fordham (7-1 this year. Congrats Rams) get into the national post season as often in those years out of the A-10? yep....but in the grand scheme of things, Holy Cross would have a much higher profile if it joined the BE in 1979 as it should have
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Post by Ray on Dec 2, 2022 8:15:25 GMT -5
87: For the love of all things holy, get over it already.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 2, 2022 8:59:27 GMT -5
87: For the love of all things holy, get over it already. The posts between midnight and 2am for ihoop typically are dripping with nostalgia for yesteryear.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 2, 2022 9:33:39 GMT -5
87: For the love of all things holy, get over it already. The posts between midnight and 2am for ihoop typically are dripping with nostalgia for yesteryear. Some of my best thoughts come about in the witching hour
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Post by Ignutz on Dec 2, 2022 10:21:16 GMT -5
I think they would listen to him, but I’ll defer to the experts. IMHO, RW is a guy that coached at all levels (high school, college, NBA assistant), is well respected, and has had success in his career. His ex players think highly of him. He has the ability to get the most out of the players he inherits and can recruit great kids. What do you guys think? I’m surprised nobody has brought this up earlier. I would bet the ranch they would listen to Ralph. And I would bet the ranch that Ralph would prefer to stay retired.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 2, 2022 10:52:06 GMT -5
I would bet the ranch they would listen to Ralph. And I would bet the ranch that Ralph would prefer to stay retired. "Hey Ralph -- Kit Hughes here. Any interest in spending this winter in Worcester rather than Florida and Maryland to watch your son's first season in the BIG 10? I can even pull some strings and you can stay in Burroughs' old suite in Ciampi! With the new global warming, it's looking like it's going to be a beautiful winter up here!
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 2, 2022 11:04:53 GMT -5
And I would bet the ranch that Ralph would prefer to stay retired. "Hey Ralph -- Kit Hughes here. Any interest in spending this winter in Worcester rather than Florida and Maryland to watch your son's first season in the BIG 10? I can even pull some strings and you can stay in Burroughs' old suite in Ciampi! With the new global warming, it's looking like it's going to be a beautiful winter up here! Post of the Year competition = over.
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Dec 2, 2022 11:05:08 GMT -5
Post by sader1970 on Dec 2, 2022 11:05:08 GMT -5
"Hey, Kit, Ralph here. While I'd prefer to stay in sunny Florida and golf, I still love Holy Cross despite Fr. McFarland, and if my returning as interim coach is what it takes to send Brett Nelson packing, I'm more than happy to do it. Maybe I can get a room in that nice house that guy Vince Rougeau has now?"
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Post by trimster on Dec 2, 2022 11:34:53 GMT -5
"Hey, Kit, Ralph here. While I'd prefer to stay in sunny Florida and golf, I still love Holy Cross despite Fr. McFarland, and if my returning as interim coach is what it takes to send Brett Nelson packing, I'm more than happy to do it. Maybe I can get a room in that nice house that guy Vince Rougeau has now?" Ralph can stay with us if he wants. Fifteen minutes to the Hart Center.
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Dec 2, 2022 14:23:53 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 2, 2022 14:23:53 GMT -5
"Hey, Kit, Ralph here. While I'd prefer to stay in sunny Florida and golf, I still love Holy Cross despite Fr. McFarland, and if my returning as interim coach is what it takes to send Brett Nelson packing, I'm more than happy to do it. Maybe I can get a room in that nice house that guy Vince Rougeau has now?" Ralph can stay with us if he wants. Fifteen minutes to the Hart Center. Much easier commute than DC Scott James has. Bio lists him as residing in Maine, right on the NH border. Assuming he doesn't also have a Caro Street crashpad, that's 3 hours a day back and forth.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 2, 2022 14:26:19 GMT -5
Has anyone given any thought to bringing in Tom Gilmore as a "toughness coach"? The man bleeds purple and I guarantee he'd have Wilbar averaging a double double by Christmas.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 2, 2022 15:00:08 GMT -5
Has anyone given any thought to bringing in Tom Gilmore as a "toughness coach"? The man bleeds purple and I guarantee he'd have Wilbar averaging a double double by Christmas. I’d be fine with making Gilmore the interim head basketball coach at this point.
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Post by jaredcurry on Dec 3, 2022 11:25:21 GMT -5
Eric Eaton, great coach, coached with RW, from Worcester. Players love him, and he’s tough…and above all can RECRUIT!
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Dec 5, 2022 19:15:50 GMT -5
Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 5, 2022 19:15:50 GMT -5
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Dec 5, 2022 20:19:56 GMT -5
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 5, 2022 20:19:56 GMT -5
For a perspective on head coaches salaries, from the 2016 NCAA annual report on revenues and expenses. The NCAA discontinued publishing this detail publicly starting in 2017.
For all FCS schools, median men's head coaching salary, median $ Basketball $279,000 Football $267,000 Ice Hockey $253,000 Lacrosse $164,000 Baseball $114,000 Soccer $102,000 Wrestling $118,000 All other sports are under $100.,000 ------------- Div I, without football Men's hoops head coach salary, median value was $413,000 Men's ice hockey head coach salary, median value was $412,000
---------------- For FCS football in 2016, Three programs had generated revenues that exceeded expenses 120 programs lost money, median loss was $2.4 million
For men's basketball at FCS schools in 2016. Three programs had generated revenues that exceeded expenses. 120 programs lost money, median loss was $995,000
For men's basketball at Division I schools without football, in 2016 Five programs had generated revenues that exceeded expenses, median net revenue was $1,742,000 Ninety programs lost money, median loss was $1,573,000
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Dec 5, 2022 23:35:22 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 5, 2022 23:35:22 GMT -5
For a perspective on head coaches salaries, from the 2016 NCAA annual report on revenues and expenses. The NCAA discontinued publishing this detail publicly starting in 2017. For all FCS schools, median men's head coaching salary, median $ Basketball $279,000 Football $267,000 Ice Hockey $253,000 Lacrosse $164,000 Baseball $114,000 Soccer $102,000 Wrestling $118,000 All other sports are under $100.,000 ------------- Div I, without football Men's hoops head coach salary, median value was $413,000 Men's ice hockey head coach salary, median value was $412,000 ---------------- For FCS football in 2016, Three programs had generated revenues that exceeded expenses 120 programs lost money, median loss was $2.4 million For men's basketball at FCS schools in 2016. Three programs had generated revenues that exceeded expenses. 120 programs lost money, median loss was $995,000 For men's basketball at Division I schools without football, in 2016 Five programs had generated revenues that exceeded expenses, median net revenue was $1,742,000 Ninety programs lost money, median loss was $1,573,000 Ice hockey and soccer are the same sport. One on a carpet the other on ice. A whole bunch of strategy to try to stick something in a net a couple of times a game. Yet hockey pays two and a half times as much ?!?
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