|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 11:15:41 GMT -5
Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 14, 2022 11:15:41 GMT -5
Ralph had been fired from his previous Power 5 job. Crean's background is such that he would quickly understand HC. Coaches want to coach What about his background makes you think he'd understand HC? Was it his time at Central Michigan as an undergrad? As an assistant at WKU, Pittsburgh, and Michigan State? Head coach at Marquette, Indiana, and Georgia? Beyond his relationship with Ralph Willard, I fail to see how this makes any sense.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 11:18:53 GMT -5
Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2022 11:18:53 GMT -5
....................or Tom Crean (on Ralph's coaching tree) Do we want to hire a guy that was fired from his last two jobs? Without commenting on Crean, but hiring anyone with D-I head coaching experience will mean hiring someone who has been fired. I know 2 of our last 6 coaches disprove my theory, but I'm not sure someone is walking away from Dartmouth or Mount St Mary's in the near future to head to Worcester
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 11:20:29 GMT -5
Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 14, 2022 11:20:29 GMT -5
Do we want to hire a guy that was fired from his last two jobs? Without commenting on Crean, but hiring anyone with D-I head coaching experience will mean hiring someone who has been fired. I know 2 of our last 6 coaches disprove my theory, but I'm not sure someone is walking away from Dartmouth or Mount St Mary's in the near future to head to Worcester Can we double Pat Duquette's salary and lure him away from Lowell?
|
|
|
Post by alum on Dec 14, 2022 11:44:31 GMT -5
Without commenting on Crean, but hiring anyone with D-I head coaching experience will mean hiring someone who has been fired. I know 2 of our last 6 coaches disprove my theory, but I'm not sure someone is walking away from Dartmouth or Mount St Mary's in the near future to head to Worcester Can we double Pat Duquette's salary and lure him away from Lowell? Wouldn't we just be hiring the guy Brett Nelson will be five years from now? A long time assistant who got a chance to be the head guy and never had a winning record either in the conference or overall?
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 11:46:16 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 14, 2022 11:46:16 GMT -5
Can we double Pat Duquette's salary and lure him away from Lowell? Wouldn't we just be hiring the guy Brett Nelson will be five years from now? A long time assistant who got a chance to be the head guy and never had a winning record either in the conference or overall? You’ve got to dig deeper than this.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 11:49:51 GMT -5
Post by efg72 on Dec 14, 2022 11:49:51 GMT -5
Today, the most important thing we can do is identify coaches who understand Holy Cross, the community of students, faculty, alums, and the Worcester region.
This will help the coach recruit talent who understands that a commitment to Holy Cross is a life commitment, and the experience and benefits they enjoy will only grow over the years. It will also help us retain those players and avoid the transfer portal nightmare.
We must also address and resolve the program's needs that have been ignored over the past two to three decades and create a momentum program for hoops.
Then once a decision is made, we can start the interview process.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:05:36 GMT -5
Post by alum on Dec 14, 2022 12:05:36 GMT -5
Wouldn't we just be hiring the guy Brett Nelson will be five years from now? A long time assistant who got a chance to be the head guy and never had a winning record either in the conference or overall? You’ve got to dig deeper than this. I am probably not going to do that. Results matter and he hasn't had any that tell me he should make in excess of $600,000 per year.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:07:37 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 14, 2022 12:07:37 GMT -5
Wouldn't we just be hiring the guy Brett Nelson will be five years from now? A long time assistant who got a chance to be the head guy and never had a winning record either in the conference or overall? You’ve got to dig deeper than this. Quite the follow up to not being willing to dig deeper on Tom Crean beyond simply looking at the schools he’s worked at….
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:13:14 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 14, 2022 12:13:14 GMT -5
Ralph had been fired from his previous Power 5 job. Crean's background is such that he would quickly understand HC. Coaches want to coach What about his background makes you think he'd understand HC? Was it his time at Central Michigan as an undergrad? As an assistant at WKU, Pittsburgh, and Michigan State? Head coach at Marquette, Indiana, and Georgia? Beyond his relationship with Ralph Willard, I fail to see how this makes any sense. What about Bob Chesney’s background made you think he would understand HC? His 4 years as an assistant at John’s Hopkins? While of course it’s critically important, it is not rocket science to “understand HC.” It is far more important that a coach understands how to coach at a high level, and is also willing to be open minded about working at HC and solving the challenges that will bring. Tom Crean has proven over the course of his career that he can coach (X’s & O’s) and develop players at a very high level. He had to deal with significant challenges relative to his competition at each of his previous coaching stops, and he would be able to figure things out at HC as well.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:19:02 GMT -5
Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 14, 2022 12:19:02 GMT -5
You’ve got to dig deeper than this. I am probably not going to do that. Results matter and he hasn't had any that tell me he should make in excess of $600,000 per year. Do you think having context is important? When he began coaching at UML, they were in their first year of playing Division 1 basketball in a gym that looks like this: goriverhawks.com/sports/2014/7/18/general_0718141622.aspx?id=178There was going to be some ramp up time, don't you think? I'm not saying Duquette is the answer, but I think we could do much worse than him. He also wouldn't be making more than $600K. His salary now is roughly $250K. I misspoke suggesting we would double it...but we could likely pay him what we are paying HCBN and he'd probably take it. He's a New England guy through and through -- from Mass, played at Williams, coaching stops at St. Michael's, BC, Northeastern, and now Lowell. We have to remember Holy Cross is a bottom of the barrel program these days, so our choices might be limited. That said, HC still presents a higher ceiling than Lowell, IMO.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:19:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 14, 2022 12:19:04 GMT -5
I don’t know Coach Crean but I cannot imagine that he’d want to coach a team at our level and at the salary we’d pay him
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:44:45 GMT -5
Post by alum on Dec 14, 2022 12:44:45 GMT -5
I am probably not going to do that. Results matter and he hasn't had any that tell me he should make in excess of $600,000 per year. Do you think having context is important? When he began coaching at UML, they were in their first year of playing Division 1 basketball in a gym that looks like this: goriverhawks.com/sports/2014/7/18/general_0718141622.aspx?id=178There was going to be some ramp up time, don't you think? I'm not saying Duquette is the answer, but I think we could do much worse than him. He also wouldn't be making more than $600K. His salary now is roughly $250K. I misspoke suggesting we would double it...but we could likely pay him what we are paying HCBN and he'd probably take it. He's a New England guy through and through -- from Mass, played at Williams, coaching stops at St. Michael's, BC, Northeastern, and now Lowell. We have to remember Holy Cross is a bottom of the barrel program these days, so our choices might be limited. That said, HC still presents a higher ceiling than Lowell, IMO. $316,891 cthrupayroll.mass.gov/#!/year/2022/full_time_employees,others/pay1,pay2,pay3,pay4/explore/0-0-0/trans_no/1432161172/0/department_division So, he's been around the block. I realize that PL coaches are underpaid relative to a lot of other places, but this guy isn't doing it for me.
|
|
|
Post by hc17 on Dec 14, 2022 12:48:44 GMT -5
I don’t know Coach Crean but I cannot imagine that he’d want to coach a team at our level and at the salary we’d pay him Could be attainable if he was looking at these types of openings this past offseason.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:50:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 14, 2022 12:50:36 GMT -5
One other question on Crean: what was his record at the schools where he coached relative to his predecessors and successors?
Looks like we have the answer on Georgia
|
|
|
Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 14, 2022 12:51:54 GMT -5
Without commenting on Crean, but hiring anyone with D-I head coaching experience will mean hiring someone who has been fired. So maybe hire somebody with non-D1 head coaching experience.
|
|
|
Post by Ignutz on Dec 14, 2022 12:53:46 GMT -5
Do you think having context is important? When he began coaching at UML, they were in their first year of playing Division 1 basketball in a gym that looks like this: goriverhawks.com/sports/2014/7/18/general_0718141622.aspx?id=178There was going to be some ramp up time, don't you think? I'm not saying Duquette is the answer, but I think we could do much worse than him. He also wouldn't be making more than $600K. His salary now is roughly $250K. I misspoke suggesting we would double it...but we could likely pay him what we are paying HCBN and he'd probably take it. He's a New England guy through and through -- from Mass, played at Williams, coaching stops at St. Michael's, BC, Northeastern, and now Lowell. We have to remember Holy Cross is a bottom of the barrel program these days, so our choices might be limited. That said, HC still presents a higher ceiling than Lowell, IMO. $316,891 cthrupayroll.mass.gov/#!/year/2022/full_time_employees,others/pay1,pay2,pay3,pay4/explore/0-0-0/trans_no/1432161172/0/department_division So, he's been around the block. I realize that PL coaches are underpaid relative to a lot of other places, but this guy isn't doing it for me. Say what you will about salaries in the public sector, but it's good to see a Crusader at the top of this list - and he's a really good guy.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:54:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bfoley82 on Dec 14, 2022 12:54:35 GMT -5
I don’t know Coach Crean but I cannot imagine that he’d want to coach a team at our level and at the salary we’d pay him Could be attainable if he was looking at these types of openings this past offseason. Evansville had former NBA player/coach Walter McCarthy as a head coach recently before he got let go for other reasons. They probably are paying decent money for that gig.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:56:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bfoley82 on Dec 14, 2022 12:56:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 12:58:25 GMT -5
Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 14, 2022 12:58:25 GMT -5
I am probably not going to do that. Results matter and he hasn't had any that tell me he should make in excess of $600,000 per year. Do you think having context is important? When he began coaching at UML, they were in their first year of playing Division 1 basketball in a gym that looks like this: goriverhawks.com/sports/2014/7/18/general_0718141622.aspx?id=178There was going to be some ramp up time, don't you think? I'm not saying Duquette is the answer, but I think we could do much worse than him. He also wouldn't be making more than $600K. His salary now is roughly $250K. I misspoke suggesting we would double it...but we could likely pay him what we are paying HCBN and he'd probably take it. He's a New England guy through and through -- from Mass, played at Williams, coaching stops at St. Michael's, BC, Northeastern, and now Lowell. We have to remember Holy Cross is a bottom of the barrel program these days, so our choices might be limited. That said, HC still presents a higher ceiling than Lowell, IMO. What about Duquette's background makes you think he would understand how to be successful at HC? His 3 years as an assistant at D2/D3 St. Lawrence & St. Michaels in the mid-90s? Playing at D3 Williams in the early 90s? Resume A: Assistant coaching career peaking with Al Skinner's staff at BC. Only D1 assistant experience under Skinner + Skinner disciple Coen at Northeastern .435 winning % in 10 years as Head Coach UMASS Lowell -- no winning seasons, one year (1st year) with a .500 record in conference Resume B: Assistant under Jud Heathcoat, Tom Izzo, and Ralph Willard 22 years of head coaching experience at Marquette, Indiana, and Georgia with a .568 winning percentage Final Four appearance at Marquette while in Conference USA Three Sweet 16 appearances at Indiana program coming off major NCAA sanctions from Kelvin Sampson What type of bizarro world are we living in where anyone would say Resume A is better than Resume B?
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 13:06:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 14, 2022 13:06:11 GMT -5
BBC- you’ve always been great with the stats analysis. How does Crean’s W-L record compare to the records of the coaches who preceded and followed him at the big time schools where he coached?
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 13:16:17 GMT -5
Post by hc17 on Dec 14, 2022 13:16:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 13:18:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bfoley82 on Dec 14, 2022 13:18:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by alum on Dec 14, 2022 13:24:28 GMT -5
BTW, an undergraduate degree from Springfield and head jobs at two state schools didn't get in Tim Murphy's way. I have come around to the idea that this "need to understand how to recruit smart kids" thing might be overrated.
|
|
|
Hire…….
Dec 14, 2022 13:37:06 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2022 13:37:06 GMT -5
BTW, an undergraduate degree from Springfield and head jobs at two state schools didn't get in Tim Murphy's way. I have come around to the idea that this "need to understand how to recruit smart kids" thing might be overrated. Joe Restic went directly from the Hamilton Tiger Cats of the CFL to Harvard where he lasted 23 years.
|
|
|
Post by hc17 on Dec 14, 2022 13:37:54 GMT -5
The point is that Walter had interest in both gigs. I'd imagine Crean would need to be convinced, but it's a phone call that you 100% need to make.
|
|