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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 10, 2022 21:10:00 GMT -5
The AI is comprised of SAT scores and GPA. A crude calculation below. Using an online AI calculator, an unweighted GPA of 3.9 and a combined SAT of 1025 is an AI score of 178, which is ten points above the AI floor for the PL. It is even above the floor for the Ivies. Trust me his SAT/AI was nowhere near the floor for the Ivies which I think is 170? Or our 168 But he is a Crusader through and through and an enormous asset for the school The floor for the PL is 168. The floor for the Ivies was 171, IIRC, and was bumped to the current floor of 176 some years ago.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 10, 2022 21:22:06 GMT -5
Thanks but my point is the AI makes no sense and admission decisions should be decided by the school and not the league
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2022 21:29:17 GMT -5
President Rougeau had the President of UNH as his guest at the UNH-HC game Rumor has it they discussed UNH joining the PL. Maybe start a poll on whether the smiles indicate a done deal. Who started the rumor? I think their smiles indicate the broiled sea scallops at halftime were delicious.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 10, 2022 21:33:07 GMT -5
The "problem", as I see it from afar anyway, is that HC has based its enrollment today on being part of the Patriot League...about 25% of kids at HC play a varsity sport in the PL at HC....it's one of our biggest drawing cards today, Exactly. HC is an exclusively liberal arts college. THE NESCAC schools, all exclusively liberal arts, field as many or more sports as HC
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2022 21:36:32 GMT -5
I always wondered what Jimmy Dean did after selling the sausage company He went on lipitor.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 10, 2022 21:37:18 GMT -5
But the NESAC doesn't want us and we don't want them
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Post by trimster on Dec 10, 2022 21:50:38 GMT -5
efg72 Your passion is palpable. Before you lead, check to make sure you have an army behind you. From an older perspective I don't know any HC alums at least those who still follow HC, who are unhappy with PL. Most are quite satisfied. In fact never heard anyone in my diminishing circle call the PL a joke. You must feel like Sisyphus interminably pushing that rock up the hill. Peace. I will be a foot soldier in EFG's Army. I am an old alum who has supported HC athletics for over 50 years and from an athletic point of view, the PL has been a disaster. Fr. Brooks wanted to eliminate athletic scholarships, probably from the get go but that is an assumption on my part, and the PL provided the means to do so. He said new rivalries would develop. Yeah right. How has that worked out?
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2022 21:51:16 GMT -5
But the NESAC doesn't want us and we don't want them We find common ground on this one. I don't want to trade the thrill of this FCS run with the growing number of (mostly non-traditional but enthusiastic) websites and online media outlets covering the Division, our FBS wins, etc. to join the NEWMAC (Clark and WPI's D-3 league) which I think is the highest level D-3 league in the region that would accept us.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 10, 2022 22:01:32 GMT -5
Years ago an insider told me HC made inquiries about joining NESCAC. There was no interest by the league. Flat out rejected. "Could not get past the front gate for a discussion." Landscape of Div.I is going through major changes. Future of HC & others' athletics will depend on these changes.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 10, 2022 22:03:52 GMT -5
Our PL Championships have brought us to the point too where we are in football and can (if we start to win again) do the same in any other sport. I am one who sees the PL as the best place for HC and would rather see a few tweaks (non-medical redshirts for one example) in the PL than moving to a new league. I am also one who believes that a loss to a higher ranked school is still just a loss. OK, I am on the record.
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Post by cmo on Dec 10, 2022 22:08:09 GMT -5
Make non medical redshirts a thing.
Get a graduate school.
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Post by gks on Dec 10, 2022 22:17:56 GMT -5
Does UNH have the academic gravitas to be in the PL? Wouldn't PL standards & rules such as AI, 5th year players, number of scholarships present a problem? State schools offer a wide range of academic choices to a wide range of students. They are an integral, important part of the landscape of higher education. Would think Richmond, W&M (public) and Villanova would be a better fit for the PL. But, doubt if any would want to adopt PL standards & rules. More likely UNH might have been trying to add HC to the CAA. We wouldbring a lot of academic prestige. Personally, It appears HC has found the correct landing place in the PL. Yes...keep those dumb public school kids out of the all-mighty PL. Keep it a league with archaic academic restrictions and self-imposed limits. The only thing the association with the other PL schools has brought Holy Cross is long, tedious bus rides.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 10, 2022 22:46:18 GMT -5
gks, You can do better. I refer you to "a wide range of academic choices to a wide range of students" in my comment. Certainly, state universities are to be applauded for making higher education available to many students of varying academic levels. Our nation has to a large extent been built by students from public state universities. Many of our leaders in science, technology the professions and other areas are graduates of these great schools. I have been a big supporter of CUNY and SUNY. Can yo deny they accept students who would not be accepted at PL schools? Can you deny that UNH would not want to be limited by AI & other PL strictures? The PL is a league of like minded more selective smaller schools. UNH is not like minded. Can't believe the nuance would escape your understanding. For you to state "those dumb public school kids" is simply an unwarranted leap of your imagination. Peace.
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Post by Xmassader on Dec 10, 2022 23:01:44 GMT -5
Years ago an insider told me HC made inquiries about joining NESCAC. There was no interest by the league. Flat out rejected. "Could not get past the front gate for a discussion." Landscape of Div.I is going through major changes. Future of HC & others' athletics will depend on these changes. mm67 Heard the same thing about NESCAC from an “insider” in the mid-‘90s when Kevin Condron ‘67 was the Chairman of the BOT and had put in motion a reevaluation of HC athletics.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 10, 2022 23:20:11 GMT -5
I know it is not news but we have a very diverse set of schools in the PL: 2 US service academies, a very large private school (BU), American U, Loyola, … This is not a league of small, selective, secular liberal arts colleges. Far from it.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 10, 2022 23:21:46 GMT -5
The "dirty little fact" is that HC admissions/selectivity has gone down since HC joined the Colonial (now Patriot} League....HC was more selective as a college in the 1980s than it is today...
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 10, 2022 23:38:39 GMT -5
Georgetown loses its liturgical vestments on men's hoops, which is why the school is becoming more secular, and securing funding from an Arab state to help the balance sheet.. Two points: 1. A satellite campus is not a material add to a balance sheet. Approx. 2% of the student body are enrolled in Qatar. 2. Basketball does not drive admissions, secular or otherwise. If it this were the case, wouldn't interest be way down?
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Post by cruskater31 on Dec 11, 2022 0:21:11 GMT -5
1. Bring in non-medical redshirts. Only hurts competitiveness which drives name recognition, receuits, etc. Seems to be a no-brainer for most of us on here. 2. Maybe change the AI if we are staying in the PL. A rising tide of HC Football (maybe 'Gate? Laffy?) lifts all boats somewhat but does limit us. 3. Pay the coaching staff and assistants competitive with the MVFC and Big Sky and out pay the CAA and Ivies, imo. 4. Stay ahead of the NEC. Without some of the PL restrictions, NEC football like Merrimack, St. Francis, and SHU could advance ahead of the PL. Chesney, his assistants, recruiting, and the playoff run should keep us ahead of the NEC for now).
I would be in favor of forming a New England/Northeast football conference with the northern CAA teams, guys like Merrimack and SHU, and perhaps Colgate and Fordham. That has been discussed before so I'll leave it at that.
Could any team survive or thrive as an FCS Indy without an auto-bid? FBS works because of the bowl agreements made by ND, Army, and BYU (and the Cougs whom I affectionately call the Stormin Mormons-are joining a conference soon). We could just schedule an Ivy, the best PL teams, best NEC teams, a couple of CAA, one FBS (two in a 12 game season), and maybe a mid-tier MVFC or Big Sky. Home and home with Sac State would be nice if the travel costs weren't so high.
Now as others have mentioned, the FBS world is changing. A few new C-USA members this upcoming year (again!). This year the Sun Belt took another step forward (geesh this is almost like the Pioneer overtaking the NEC and the PL). A-SUN and WAC could be moving up wholesale next year. With UCLA and USC moving to the Big Ten and Texas and OU moving to the SEC, will we see a P2 division? P3 or 4 with the ACC and Big 12? Will the worst teams in those conferences get bought out and swapped with better teams from the G5? Who knows. Will there be FBS, a middle ground, and then FCS? I wonder if HC should find a home in that middle ground.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 11, 2022 8:59:38 GMT -5
Make non medical redshirts a thing. This is going to be the biggest point of discussion for HCBC and ADKH. If we want to routinely be a top 10-15 FCS program, make annual trips to the FCS playoffs, and have a chance at winning the whole damn thing on years when the stars align, then we absolutely need fifth-years. If the school or league puts our handcuffs on not having fifth years, then I guarantee Chesney's desire to move elsewhere increases in a big, big way. There's been a ceiling that gets put on the program if we can't have redshirts. The COVID year and subsequent ability for those kids to have an additional year of eligibility were the best thing that's happened to the program since the hiring of Chesney. It's also made things complicated for the school and league because we've gotten a taste of what this program can become -- a top ten in the country.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 11, 2022 9:05:35 GMT -5
I don't want to cut, I want to add to athletics but prioritize the investments I would cut administrative expenses and faculty salaries in excess of $175k unless they teach more than 3 classes This is a very bad idea. HC is an educational institution that offers athletics, not an athletic institution that offers an education.
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Post by joe on Dec 11, 2022 9:11:18 GMT -5
Holy Cross has a 38% acceptance rate. Get over it.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 11, 2022 9:29:36 GMT -5
I don't want to cut, I want to add to athletics but prioritize the investments I would cut administrative expenses and faculty salaries in excess of $175k unless they teach more than 3 classes This is a very bad idea. HC is an educational institution that offers athletics, not an athletic institution that offers an education. This is the football tail wagging the academic dog. At many of the larger, public FBS schools, the athletic program is run by an entity associated with the university, but not an integral part of the university. This allows such schools to bypass statutory limits on compensation of public employees, which the head football coach would be if he were not employed by the athletic association.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 11, 2022 9:42:24 GMT -5
I don't want to cut, I want to add to athletics but prioritize the investments I would cut administrative expenses and faculty salaries in excess of $175k unless they teach more than 3 classes This is a very bad idea. HC is an educational institution that offers athletics, not an athletic institution that offers an education. Don't disagree we are an academic institution offering athletics and an opportunity for spiritual growth. What once made Holy Cross different is that these three pieces make up the Holy Cross educational and life experience. That life experience often starts with special relationships and networks as an undergraduate and grow throughout life. These likely are formed outside of the classroom ( clubs, community service, athletics, dorms) and that holistic approach to education makes us unique. As just an academic institution what we offer today is not that different or special. The admissions numbers over the last two decades, including the yield on accepted students, are not overly impressive Look i think we can get this right for the future, and I truly respect and understand that there are many different thoughts on this topic, and significantly more ways to achieve the goal.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 11, 2022 9:56:40 GMT -5
Hope HC & the PL avoid the temptation to put more emphasis on athletics. Jettisoning or weakening AI, adding non-med red shirts, increasing the number of scholarships are all bad ideas not in line with the academic profile of HC or the PL. I don't have inside knowledge as do some on this board about internal discussions involving VR, KH and the school leadership team. And, the faculty? Realize the hype of a successful football team elicits a heady feeling. Expect the school will choose not to lose its head with athletics in this era of a changing NCAA landscape. Peace.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 11, 2022 10:05:15 GMT -5
Hope HC & the PL avoid the temptation to put more emphasis on athletics. Jettisoning or weakening AI, adding non-med red shirts, increasing the number of scholarships are all bad ideas not in line with the academic profile of HC or the PL. I don't have inside knowledge as do some on this board about internal discussions involving VR, KH and the school leadership team. And, the faculty? Realize the hype of a successful football team elicits a heady feeling. Expect the school will choose not to lose its head with athletics in this era of a changing NCAA landscape. Peace. Understand your position, but how is Georgetown and Bucknell ever going to be competitive without some changes? They are consigned to indefinite 2-9 seasons without it and are not even competitive with the NEC right now.
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