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Post by hc87 on Dec 16, 2022 23:04:12 GMT -5
Most schools in this country would give their eye-teeth to play Yale and/or Harvard every year in football.
I think it's great for the school to have these long, established football rivalries with those fine institutions.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 17, 2022 0:07:12 GMT -5
Well said, indianhoop. I’d like to play both every year. Then in remaining 3 openings (in 11 game season) 1 or 2 FBS and 1 or 2 quality FCS.
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Post by bigfan on Dec 17, 2022 8:09:10 GMT -5
We should not play Merrimack, Stonehill or Bryant. It hurts the SOS and the fans could care less.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 17, 2022 9:21:26 GMT -5
I agree with your points, which is why I said at the start of the season, as it changes during the season. For example, a schedule with our PL opponents, an FBS or two ( in a 12 games season), three games against teams that regularly compete in the playoffs, and one game against the ivies would probably give us a much different SOS than the one we had for the last few years. I might be wrong, and probably worth debating, I guess. If the three OOC games came from the following list of schools- Richmond, W&M, NOVA, UNH, Delaware, and possibly URI, we would likely draw more to Fitton, but that is, at best, a guess on my part. I would be in favor of seeing teams like Nova, UNH and URI on the schedule with regularity. Playing and beating those teams would look great on the resume at the end of the season. Part of the issue is travel, I suspect, at least as it pertains to Nova. They’re able to take short bus rides to Bucknell and Lehigh in the years they play them on the road. They have plenty of long trips in the CAA and probably don’t want to add a trip to HC if they can help it (trying to look at it from their perspective). The strength of their league doesn’t require them to schedule the same way in non-con the way HC or Fordham need/want to right now. They also have fewer non-con slots to fill compared to HC, so they can be choosy. That said, would love to see Nova on the schedule for 2-4 games. Great points. I've brought this up several times when people ask why we haven't scheduled series with Villanova. As you point out, if they're going to schedule a PL team, they have Lehigh, Lafayette, Fordham and Bucknell within easy driving distance. They also have Penn in town -- it's actually kind of weird how infrequently the only two FCS teams in Philly play each other, especially given how both have been very good for much of the last 25 years. And of course, the CAA schedule already pens in a trip or two to New England every year, in addition to only allowing for two FCS non-conference games given that Nova plays an FBS $$ game every year as well. However, the additions of Hampton, NCAT and Campbell might actually result in LESS travel for CAA football members believe it or not. This is because the 15-team league is likely to switch to a POD system where each school plays the other four members of their regional POD + 2 members of each of the other two PODS. So there may be some years where the Wildcats are in the market for a trip to the New England area. Likely POD setup FWIW: N'England/New Yawk: UNH, URI, Maine, Albany, Stony Brook Mid-Atlantic: Villanova, Delaware, Towson, Monmouth W&M => **W&M/UR game would have to be grandfathered in** South: Richmond, NCAT, Hampton, Campbell, Elon
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Post by hc89 on Dec 17, 2022 9:21:39 GMT -5
Most schools in this country would give their eye-teeth to play Yale and/or Harvard every year in football. I think it's great for the school to have these long, established football rivalries with those fine institutions. 1000%
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Post by mm67 on Dec 17, 2022 9:43:15 GMT -5
HC is a small "red brick" New England college of national stature.Over the years HC & Villanova have played infrequently. It would make eminently more sense to schedule BC a little bit more frequently. Together with our NE schools (Mass, UConn formerly warm up exercises) & NE IL(D,H,Y,B) rivals, an occasional visit to West Point and our PL games HC would have a noteworthy schedule. Obviously, a game against CAA schools such as UNH & others would add interest. None of us can foresee what the future will bring. 50,100 years? Who knows? All these schools, HC included, might some day land up in Div.III. HA!!!
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 17, 2022 11:36:20 GMT -5
UMass is now a national warm up exercise. Amazing how Holy Cross got it's football identity right compared to our neighbors up the road.
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Post by JRGNYR on Dec 17, 2022 20:08:29 GMT -5
I would be in favor of seeing teams like Nova, UNH and URI on the schedule with regularity. Playing and beating those teams would look great on the resume at the end of the season. Part of the issue is travel, I suspect, at least as it pertains to Nova. They’re able to take short bus rides to Bucknell and Lehigh in the years they play them on the road. They have plenty of long trips in the CAA and probably don’t want to add a trip to HC if they can help it (trying to look at it from their perspective). The strength of their league doesn’t require them to schedule the same way in non-con the way HC or Fordham need/want to right now. They also have fewer non-con slots to fill compared to HC, so they can be choosy. That said, would love to see Nova on the schedule for 2-4 games. Great points. I've brought this up several times when people ask why we haven't scheduled series with Villanova. As you point out, if they're going to schedule a PL team, they have Lehigh, Lafayette, Fordham and Bucknell within easy driving distance. They also have Penn in town -- it's actually kind of weird how infrequently the only two FCS teams in Philly play each other, especially given how both have been very good for much of the last 25 years. And of course, the CAA schedule already pens in a trip or two to New England every year, in addition to only allowing for two FCS non-conference games given that Nova plays an FBS $$ game every year as well. However, the additions of Hampton, NCAT and Campbell might actually result in LESS travel for CAA football members believe it or not. This is because the 15-team league is likely to switch to a POD system where each school plays the other four members of their regional POD + 2 members of each of the other two PODS. So there may be some years where the Wildcats are in the market for a trip to the New England area. Likely POD setup FWIW: N'England/New Yawk: UNH, URI, Maine, Albany, Stony Brook Mid-Atlantic: Villanova, Delaware, Towson, Monmouth W&M => **W&M/UR game would have to be grandfathered in** South: Richmond, NCAT, Hampton, Campbell, Elon Hadn't thought this far ahead with the CAA but you're probably right about the pod setup and travel implications. Four games (two home, two away) within your pod and then pod crossovers, probably vs. two in each of the other pods, one home and one away to get to 4 home/4 away overall. Curious if crossovers are prescheduled or if there's NFL style scheduling where tops in each pod from the previous year play each other, second place play each other, etc. Then the other game could be random or determined by some other metric, although some creativity would be needed somewhat if W&M vs. Richmond needs to be protected.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 17, 2022 20:09:42 GMT -5
Like the old ECAC North, Metro, South
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 17, 2022 22:58:06 GMT -5
Most schools in this country would give their eye-teeth to play Yale and/or Harvard every year in football. I think it's great for the school to have these long, established football rivalries with those fine institutions. Ok if that is the case why when HC plays Yale maybe 5k at the Yale Bowl? One reason everybody has been there and watched it for 40 years time for a change. Beating them doesn’t give us much credit nationally. I think it’s time to move on. Bob Chesney vision for HC football and northeast football is not close to the Ivy League vision. Harvard vision play the weakest out of conference teams we can play. No playoffs win the Ivy title.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 17, 2022 23:10:40 GMT -5
Most schools in this country would give their eye-teeth to play Yale and/or Harvard every year in football. I think it's great for the school to have these long, established football rivalries with those fine institutions. Ok if that is the case why when HC plays Yale maybe 5k at the Yale Bowl? One reason everybody has been there and watched it for 40 years time for a change. Beating them doesn’t give us much credit nationally. I think it’s time to move on. Bob Chesney vision for HC football and northeast football is not close to the Ivy League vision. Harvard vision play the weakest out of conference teams we can play. No playoffs win the Ivy title. It is tough to shoot in an empty Yale Bowl.
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Post by cruskater31 on Dec 17, 2022 23:36:52 GMT -5
Massey Conference Ratings 1. Missouri Valley 2. Big Sky 3. Southern (SoCon) 4. A-Sun 5. AQ7 6. CAA 7. WAC 8. Ivy 9. OVC 10. Southland 11. Big South 12. PL 13. SWAC 14. MEAC 15. NEC 16. Pioneer
So...as long as we have two of the perennial Ivy powers, we should be ok. Princeton anyone? Unfortunately this is a computer ranking and the Committee et al still seem to have an anti-Ivy New England bias. Bryant in the Big South (including playoff victor Gardner-Webb) is better than an NEC opponent. CAA is still the best bet for SoS in the East, but Fordham gambled incorrectly if they were going for SoS, correctly if they were hoping their 3 opponents would be somewhat competitive but a clear L.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 17, 2022 23:55:49 GMT -5
We may be OK vs the Ivies, but the PL #12 certainly hurts.
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Post by fillfittonfield on Dec 18, 2022 0:16:09 GMT -5
Massey Conference Ratings 1. Missouri Valley 2. Big Sky 3. Southern (SoCon) 4. A-Sun 5. AQ7 6. CAA 7. WAC 8. Ivy 9. OVC 10. Southland 11. Big South 12. PL 13. SWAC 14. MEAC 15. NEC 16. Pioneer So...as long as we have two of the perennial Ivy powers, we should be ok. Princeton anyone? Unfortunately this is a computer ranking and the Committee et al still seem to have an anti-Ivy New England bias. Bryant in the Big South (including playoff victor Gardner-Webb) is better than an NEC opponent. CAA is still the best bet for SoS in the East, but Fordham gambled incorrectly if they were going for SoS, correctly if they were hoping their 3 opponents would be somewhat competitive but a clear L. Here’s something that rarely gets mentioned during these conversations. A team can go out and schedule quality opponents with the hopes of having a competitive schedule, beat their opponents, and still get screwed. For example: This year Fordham went out and put together what I thought was going to be a really respectable schedule. - Monmouth and Stony Brook had distinguished themselves as strong programs that were on the rise. - an FBS team (Ohio) - another CAA team (Albany), although they had been having some down years recently Anyway, my point is that Fordham beats all its non conference opponents (except Ohio) and has to hear from the committee about how soft their schedule was. In most other years Monmouth and Stony Brook aren’t as soft as they were this year. This same concept applies for HC’s season this year. Harvard and Yale weren’t as strong as they traditionally are and as a result it impacted our overall seed. Bottom line: At the end of the day there is only so much a team can control. They certainly can’t control their strength of schedule. This year our boys controlled what they could. They went undefeated. They made us proud.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 18, 2022 0:55:47 GMT -5
Playing Harvard and Yale (and some years other Ivies) in football transcends our "strength our schedule"....it puts Holy Cross in the mix of being associated with those schools. Believe me, we need that association as our academic standing has faltered the last 30 years or so.
The Ivy League is very good football and there is no need to replace them with other FCS programs.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Dec 18, 2022 6:15:08 GMT -5
Yale finished 8-2, tied for Ivy champs; finished #30 in Massey rankings. Playing and defeating them helped our SoS and receiving a top 8 seed.
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 18, 2022 8:16:45 GMT -5
The bottom line is that the PL has to improve - Will HC’s success help the others to step up their recruiting and coaching quality ?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 18, 2022 8:19:15 GMT -5
Yale finished 8-2, tied for Ivy champs; finished #30 in Massey rankings. Playing and defeating them helped our SoS and receiving a top 8 seed. Agreed. Yale got a lot better as the season went on. After our game, Grooms looked like he'd be lucky to hold onto the starting QB job at Yale...and he goes on to finish 1st Team all Ivy at QB, and I think Ivy Offensive POY as well.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 18, 2022 8:32:25 GMT -5
We should not play Merrimack, Stonehill or Bryant. It hurts the SOS and the fans could care less. I'm actually a big proponent of ginning up a nice little Catholic in-state rivalry with Merrimack across all sports. I like playing them for a lot of reasons: 1) We both sponsor a wide portfolio of sports, including FCS football, M/W hockey, Lax, Baseball, Soccer 2) Merrimack consistently exhibited across the board athletic excellence while in D2. I see them becoming a power in the NEC. 3) Unlike BC and BU, they've scheduled us pretty regularly in hockey 4) The Turnpike Trophy rivalry stinks. Nobody cares. Only sport BU fans care about is the one sport they don't play us, at least on the Men's side. 5) Fans seem to show up to Merrimack games. Friday night opener against Holy Cross drew like 9,000 this past Labor Day Weekend. I'm in for that. Stonehill though, yawn. Bryant -- meh, but like Merrimack they absolutely have shown a commitment to putting competitive teams at the DI level in both basketball and football. And they've been a power in lacrosse ever since they got the coach from Duke 15 years ago.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 18, 2022 8:39:31 GMT -5
The bottom line is that the PL has to improve - Will HC’s success help the others to step up their recruiting and coaching quality ? Fordham will be back up towards the top within a couple years. They'll take a step back in 2023, however. Lehigh - they have a couple great options for their open HC position. As long as they don't screw that up, they'll be back sooner rather than later. Colgate appears to be where we were in the late Gilmore era -- consistent mediocrity. Never that good, never that bad. They've switched places with HC -- we're the flagship football program while Colgate is now the flagship basketball program. Lafayette - Only thing driving their athletic aspirations is the urgency to beat Lehigh. So....if Lehigh improves dramatically, at least there will be some pressure applied in Easton. As far as their current team, if they return a lot of guys next year, they could be a team to watch. Bucknell & Georgetown - don't hold your breath. Any surprises coming out of DC or Lewisburg are likely to be fleeting.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 18, 2022 8:40:07 GMT -5
Ok if that is the case why when HC plays Yale maybe 5k at the Yale Bowl? One reason everybody has been there and watched it for 40 years time for a change. Beating them doesn’t give us much credit nationally. I think it’s time to move on. Bob Chesney vision for HC football and northeast football is not close to the Ivy League vision. Harvard vision play the weakest out of conference teams we can play. No playoffs win the Ivy title. It is tough to shoot in an empty Yale Bowl. Do you up your rate for a game at the Bowl?
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Post by hchoops on Dec 18, 2022 8:43:23 GMT -5
We should not play Merrimack, Stonehill or Bryant. It hurts the SOS and the fans could care less. I'm actually a big proponent of ginning up a nice little Catholic in-state rivalry with Merrimack across all sports. I like playing them for a lot of reasons: 1) We both sponsor a wide portfolio of sports, including FCS football, M/W hockey, Lax, Baseball, Soccer 2) Merrimack consistently exhibited across the board athletic excellence while in D2. I see them becoming a power in the NEC. 3) Unlike BC and BU, they've scheduled us pretty regularly in hockey 4) The Turnpike Trophy rivalry stinks. Nobody cares. Only sport BU fans care about is the one sport they don't play us, at least on the Men's side. 5) Fans seem to show up to Merrimack games. Friday night opener against Holy Cross drew like 9,000 this past Labor Day Weekend. I'm in for that. Stonehill though, yawn. Bryant -- meh, but like Merrimack they absolutely have shown a commitment to putting competitive teams at the DI level in both basketball and football. And they've been a power in lacrosse ever since they got the coach from Duke 15 years ago. Regarding #2 The NEC is ranked #15, next to last. How can playing / beating Merrimack help us ?
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Post by timholycross on Dec 18, 2022 8:53:43 GMT -5
I'm happy the BC game is on the schedule. They may not have been good this year; but I doubt they're standing pat (one OL transfer already committed and one good OL guy back from 2021 after missing 2022) and they're always going to be bigger and faster. 2022 might have been the "perfect storm" season to beat them, but the storm may have blown out to sea (hope not, enjoy it immensely when the subheadlines in the Globe say something like "bowl hopes dashed").
Same with Army although size is not an issue and I like the chances of stopping a run only attack a lot better than a pass only attack (for example, Bryant)
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Post by timholycross on Dec 18, 2022 8:58:35 GMT -5
I'm actually a big proponent of ginning up a nice little Catholic in-state rivalry with Merrimack across all sports. I like playing them for a lot of reasons: 1) We both sponsor a wide portfolio of sports, including FCS football, M/W hockey, Lax, Baseball, Soccer 2) Merrimack consistently exhibited across the board athletic excellence while in D2. I see them becoming a power in the NEC. 3) Unlike BC and BU, they've scheduled us pretty regularly in hockey 4) The Turnpike Trophy rivalry stinks. Nobody cares. Only sport BU fans care about is the one sport they don't play us, at least on the Men's side. 5) Fans seem to show up to Merrimack games. Friday night opener against Holy Cross drew like 9,000 this past Labor Day Weekend. I'm in for that. Stonehill though, yawn. Bryant -- meh, but like Merrimack they absolutely have shown a commitment to putting competitive teams at the DI level in both basketball and football. And they've been a power in lacrosse ever since they got the coach from Duke 15 years ago. Regarding #2 The NEC is ranked #15, next to last. How can playing / beating Merrimack help us ? If people like going to a game, have the game. Clearly at this point no Brown, Bryant, Dartmouth in Worcester, Sacred Heart (regular season), C Conn. No one attended.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 18, 2022 9:34:56 GMT -5
Realistically, games need to be scheduled years in advance. The rankings of teams can change dramatically during the interval. Next we'll have USNWR controlling athletic decisions of colleges as it does academic decisions.(Educational quality be damned.) So, picking OOC teams based on SOS is a bit of a crap shoot. Also, opposing teams may be good but will have little appeal among the HC faithful. It seems making decisions(academic & athletic)on the basis of pleasing others is a fool's errand. Too many are driven by the opinion of the other. It's a sign of weakness, a lack of confidence. The traditional PL, IL NE with an FBS is fine rather than worrying about scheduling "Kalamazoo" in the vain hope of pleasing others.
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