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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2023 6:33:15 GMT -5
Many look on this board look at Harvard the way a middle schooler looks at the prom queen. Have never understood the fascination with them on the football field. Dump them, and the rest of the Ivies, and move on to a better schedule. *I'll entertain Yale as long as Tony Reno is there. Which better football teams than Harvard will come to Worcester every other year? We can't play all our OOC games on the road against low FBS and high FCS. Tony Reno is from the Worcester area, Tim Murphy at Harvard is a Mass. native, too. Ever think that helped us get those two on the schedule? Coaches at high FCS schools in the Dakotas might be from out that way and not have heard "Fitton Field" since they were kids and not be as enamored with trucking all the way to Wormtown.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on May 10, 2023 6:41:25 GMT -5
Many look on this board look at Harvard the way a middle schooler looks at the prom queen. Have never understood the fascination with them on the football field. Dump them, and the rest of the Ivies, and move on to a better schedule. *I'll entertain Yale as long as Tony Reno is there. Lol we beat Harvard in Cambridge for 1st time in 20 years and now all of a sudden they're not good enough to be on our schedule? Remember 2 years ago when Harvard boat raced us Homecoming weekend in a season where we beat UCONN, went toe-to-toe with CAA champ Villanova on the road in the playoffs,and beat PL comp by an avg of 31 points? Meanwhile, people are super excited about scheduling URI whose football team hadn't had so much as a pulse for 25 years until about 2020. Not knocking the URI game, I'm excited about playing a New England FCS team we haven't faced since the 80's, and visiting Newport in September. But the obsession with dropping long-standing Ivy series in favor of "CAA opponents" who might be good, might be OK is a little over the top.
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Post by hc6774 on May 10, 2023 7:09:27 GMT -5
Some might have more trouble with the Harvard band's approach to HC that its football team.
Although ancient history, there was a time in the late 60's just before JEB's presidency, when Harvard had good cause to question our football ethics.
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Post by alum on May 10, 2023 7:47:27 GMT -5
Many look on this board look at Harvard the way a middle schooler looks at the prom queen. Have never understood the fascination with them on the football field. Dump them, and the rest of the Ivies, and move on to a better schedule.*I'll entertain Yale as long as Tony Reno is there. That begs the question of what a better schedule would lool like. I suppose that we could try to replace them with CAA games but it appears to me that each team has two nonconference games per year. Some already have rivals for some of those games. We certainly could not develop a yearly rivalry with any of these schools and are geographically at a distance from many. Another option would be to try to schedule a national FCS game each year. That would be fun, but represent an expensive travel budget item. While we here might follow FCS football nationally, does the average alum, parent or student care about a matchup with North Dakota State or Immaculate Word? I think they would prefer to play Harvard and Yale. I have no problem keeping Harvard and Yale on the schedule and would like to see us get CAA games when we can. Query whether our recent success makes CAA scheduling harder to accomplish? I would work on making a UMass game a regular thing if they would pay us and/or would play them for nothing if they would come to HC on a 2:1 home and away schedule.
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Post by hcpride on May 10, 2023 7:47:44 GMT -5
Many look on this board look at Harvard the way a middle schooler looks at the prom queen. Have never understood the fascination with them on the football field. Dump them, and the rest of the Ivies, and move on to a better schedule. *I'll entertain Yale as long as Tony Reno is there. Which better football teams than Harvard will come to Worcester every other year? We can't play all our OOC games on the road against low FBS and high FCS. Tony Reno is from the Worcester area, Tim Murphy at Harvard is a Mass. native, too. Ever think that helped us get those two on the schedule? Coaches at high FCS schools in the Dakotas might be from out that way and not have heard "Fitton Field" since they were kids and not be as enamored with trucking all the way to Wormtown. Maybe Harvard will be willing to sign something saying they will not pursue kids who have signed NLI’s with PL teams. Until then, I say ban them from football competition with PL teams. Harvard’s playing a Pioneer Football League team, a MEAC team and a PL team (us) as OOC this year. I’d recover if we were no longer in that group.
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Post by alum on May 10, 2023 7:52:34 GMT -5
Which better football teams than Harvard will come to Worcester every other year? We can't play all our OOC games on the road against low FBS and high FCS. Tony Reno is from the Worcester area, Tim Murphy at Harvard is a Mass. native, too. Ever think that helped us get those two on the schedule? Coaches at high FCS schools in the Dakotas might be from out that way and not have heard "Fitton Field" since they were kids and not be as enamored with trucking all the way to Wormtown. Maybe Harvard will be willing to sign something saying they will not pursue kids who have signed NLI’s with PL teams. Until then, I say ban them from football competition with PL teams. Harvard’s playing a Pioneer Football League team, a MEAC team and a PL team (us) as OOC this year. I’d recover if we were no longer in that group. Sounds like restraint of trade. Harvard is at a bigger risk of losing kids to Fordham or HC or other athletic scholarship offering schools than the other way around if they want to start a war here. There are certainly some kids at the Ivies who pay full or close to full freight to attend due to family income or assets but who might be attracted to a late scholarship offer.
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Post by lehighowl on May 10, 2023 7:59:28 GMT -5
Is there any correlation with PL football standings & AI for each school from highest AI at the bottom up to lowest at the top of the league? I know a lot more about the history of PL football than I do academic rankings but I'd opine that the highest AI to the lowest would look like something like this in football: 1) Georgetown 2) Colgate 3) Bucknell 4) Holy Cross 5) Lehigh 6) Fordham 7) Lafayette And something like this in other sports: 1) Colgate => Army & Navy would obviously be 1 and 2 but I don't think they have to comply with AI given that all academy acceptances must receive a Congressional appointment. 2) Bucknell 3) Holy Cross 4) Lehigh 5) Boston University 6) Lafayette 7) American 8) Loyola I can't see Lafayette being below Fordham and Lehigh when it comes to football AI. I'm pretty sure Lehigh and Fordham are 6 and 7 if there's actually a specific ranking in place. Both schools have generally brought in high school and transfers (especially Fordham) that other schools couldn't consider. One of the "understood" facets of Lehigh's run in the late 1990s through early 2000 early 2000s is the "friendly relationship" that developed between football and admissions. Once the PL opted in for the playoffs Lehigh decided they were already being hampered by not having scholarships, so might as well be a bit liberal with inclusive admission practices if we're speaking 2023 terms. Tragically, JUCO transfer Theo Moss and Phil Eversely were involved in a murder under Lembo which resulted in a significant cultural changes. Star running Eric Rath failing out, going to community college for a year then coming back didn't sit well either with some.
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 10, 2023 8:26:28 GMT -5
Playing Harvard is a geographical and financial scheduling convenience for both schools, as well as playing Merrimack and Bryant and potentially Stonehill if they become a strong program
The move to poach a student athlete who already had made a legal commitment to another school by signing a National Letter of Intent, shows a lack of ethics. Since the Ivy League does not use a NLI, apparently they do not recognize it as a signed commitment to receive athletic merit aid. Several years ago, Hunter Helms, a QB from South Carolina, made a verbal commitment to Holy Cross, but changed his mind late in the early signing period to accept a PWO at Clemson. This was a temporary setback to Coach Chesney in building out the roster for his first recruiting class. The difference between the two situations is that Helms did not sign a NLI with HC, Torres did with Fordham.
Once Harvard, Yale, and Princeton changed their financial aid formulas a decade ago, they sloped the recruiting battle in their favor against the other five Ivy League schools. The old tale was told about Harvard football regarding Need Based Aid…”.We need a Quarterback, let’s give him as much aid to secure the commitment.”
I was not in favor of dropping the series based strengthening the HC schedule, but I am now based on their apparent poaching of an athlete after he had signed an NLI to play at another school. If any college had done the same to a student athlete who had committed to HC after an NLI had been signed, there would be no question that HC should drop the series until a new coaching staff was installed at the poaching school.
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Post by sader1970 on May 10, 2023 9:13:00 GMT -5
So, we are absolutely sure this ex-Rams recruit signed an NLI and Harvard poached him?
If so (big "IF"), yeah, IMO, that'd be unethical on Harvard's part but it takes two to tango and for me, it says a lot about the kid. Backing out of a verbal commitment is bad enough but backing out of a signed agreement ("contract," lawyers?) is even worse.
But, as so often here, there is a high degree of speculation and I'm willing to give Harvard the benefit of the doubt as there may be a number of extenuating circumstances we haven't a clue about.
As to future opponents, I'm in the keep Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth on the schedule as often as possible; Brown, UNH, URI and the weak FBS sisters UMass and UConn. BC, of course, and Army and the occasional trip down to Annapolis.
I've posted in the past that when I lived in Columbus, people there thought Holy Cross was an Ivy League school (unquestionably the best academic league in the country and the best kind of "guilt by association" there is) because they would see the football and basketball scores.
I like the local competition and OK with Merrimack as well.
If we get into the finals this season, maybe win a national championship, you might find fellow Catholic school, Immaculate Word, be willing to make a trip to Worcester or those Dakota/Montana schools. In the meantime, I'm OK with beating everyone in the Northeast. Gotta be a regional power before you become a national power, IMO.
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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2023 9:32:56 GMT -5
Which better football teams than Harvard will come to Worcester every other year? We can't play all our OOC games on the road against low FBS and high FCS. Tony Reno is from the Worcester area, Tim Murphy at Harvard is a Mass. native, too. Ever think that helped us get those two on the schedule? Coaches at high FCS schools in the Dakotas might be from out that way and not have heard "Fitton Field" since they were kids and not be as enamored with trucking all the way to Wormtown. Maybe Harvard will be willing to sign something saying they will not pursue kids who have signed NLI’s with PL teams. Until then, I say ban them from football competition with PL teams. Harvard’s playing a Pioneer Football League team, a MEAC team and a PL team (us) as OOC this year. I’d recover if we were no longer in that group. It's the student's decision to enroll at Harvard instead of Fordham. It's also not that surprising he changed his mind if he had both options. The process of where to go to college is student driven, not coach or fan controlled.
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Post by HC92 on May 10, 2023 10:22:21 GMT -5
We’re spending way more time than we should worrying about a recruiting dispute between two schools that are not HC. Recruiting is a murky world at best. Let’s get the best players we can for HC and schedule the opponents that best serve HC’s interests. None of the other stuff matters to us.
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 10, 2023 11:16:19 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on May 10, 2023 11:36:45 GMT -5
We’re spending way more time than we should worrying about a recruiting dispute between two schools that are not HC. Recruiting is a murky world at best. Let’s get the best players we can for HC and schedule the opponents that best serve HC’s interests. None of the other stuff matters to us. Doesn't take much imagination to see Harvard pull this on one Jesuit PL school (without repercussions) after an NLI signing and… Also, QB’s are pretty important to football programs I’ve heard…
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Post by HC92 on May 10, 2023 11:53:10 GMT -5
Wouldn’t Torres have had to request (and be granted) a release from Fordham before committing to Harvard?
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Post by hchoops on May 10, 2023 11:56:32 GMT -5
Maybe not since the Ivies may not recognize LOI since they do not have them
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Post by hcpride on May 10, 2023 12:27:38 GMT -5
Maybe not since the Ivies may not recognize LOI since they do not have them I don’t think Ivies play by NLI rules (I don’t believe they are part of that program). That also means if you break your NLI and enroll in Harvard (or another non-member) you avoid the usual penalty. “An important provision of the NLI program is a recruiting prohibition applied after a prospective student-athlete signs the NLI. This prohibition requires member institutions to cease recruitment of a prospective student-athlete once an NLI is signed with another institution.” “The NLI basic penalty is that you lose one year of competition in all sports and must serve one year in residence at your next NLI institution.” www.nationalletter.org/aboutTheNli/index.html#:~:text=The%20NLI%20is%20a%20binding,two%20semesters%20or%20three%20quarters).
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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2023 12:51:49 GMT -5
Maybe not since the Ivies may not recognize LOI since they do not have them I don’t think Ivies play by NLI rules (I don’t believe they are part of that program). “An important provision of the NLI program is a recruiting prohibition applied after a prospective student-athlete signs the NLI. This prohibition requires member institutions to cease recruitment of a prospective student-athlete once an NLI is signed with another institution.” www.nationalletter.org/aboutTheNli/index.html#:~:text=The%20NLI%20is%20a%20binding,two%20semesters%20or%20three%20quarters). That's helpful. I wasn't crystal clear on what an NLI entailed. It sounds equitable in that the one year sit out penalty on the student pays his debt to "society" fair and square. I wonder what the penalty is for a member school that continues recruiting after an NLI is signed? If it's a reduction of one scholarship for a year, that sounds about right. Proving continued recruiting sounds murky unless there is a paper/digital trail and a person with access to that data who is motivated to expose the perpetrator. If Harvard doesn't participate in NLI it takes the Johnnies and Coach Tim Murphy off the hook, I would think. The scoundrel label doesn't sit well on either Harvard or Murphy for me. I have a high regard for both.
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 10, 2023 13:14:18 GMT -5
If Harvard doesn't participate in NLI it takes the Johnnies and Coach Tim Murphy off the hook, I would think. The scoundrel label doesn't sit well on either Harvard or Murphy for me. I have a high regard for both. The Ivy League does not participate in the National Letter of Intent program. See note on last page of this link. www.nationalletter.org/documentLibrary/nli-guide.pdf
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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2023 13:20:01 GMT -5
If Harvard doesn't participate in NLI it takes the Johnnies and Coach Tim Murphy off the hook, I would think. The scoundrel label doesn't sit well on either Harvard or Murphy for me. I have a high regard for both. The Ivy League does not participate in the National Letter of Intent program. See note on last page of this link. www.nationalletter.org/documentLibrary/nli-guide.pdfThat link isn't opening for me, probably my security software. Does GU participate in the NLI program?
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 10, 2023 13:25:54 GMT -5
We have to agree to disagree on Coach Murphy regarding him being a scoundrel. Regardless of participating or non participating in the NLI process, to pursue and provide a scholarship after a letter is signed is ethically challenged. Having taken quite a few course regarding ethics and code of conduct, his actions do not pass the sniff test. I do not have a dog in this fight, but if I did, I would be raising the flag and calling for an investigation, but since it is Charlie Baker’s Alma Mater, nothing would be initiated.
If the situation was of a HC athlete, who got poached by HYP after the letter was signed and announced, this thread would be 20 pages.
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 10, 2023 13:31:11 GMT -5
That link isn't opening for me, probably my security software. Does GU participate in the NLI program? They've never said as much, so I'll say no. They offer a likely letter similar to the Ivy League, even though newspapers refer to it an NLI. The use of a likely letter is also part of what makes Georgetown's hill to compete an even steeper climb: a NLI is a guarantee of admission and GU doesn't offer admission to non-NLI athletes until April. How many kids are going to decline an offer elsewhere or simply hold off signing a scholarship offer until April? Over the years it has lost athletes that were early commits as a result of this. Fordham (the focus of this thread) does participate in the National Letter of Intent program. The penalties on withdrawing from the agreement to attend another school only apply against other NLI programs since it is a voluntary agreement among the schools and not the NCAA.
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Post by nhteamer on May 10, 2023 13:36:57 GMT -5
Oh, Come on DFW Paleese
Enough with the holier than thou stuff.
I have personal experience.
Their athletes are verbally assured well before April that they are "in."
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 10, 2023 13:44:17 GMT -5
Oh, Come on DFW Paleese Enough with the holier than thou stuff. I have personal experience. Their athletes are verbally assured well before April that they are "in." Yes, that's what a likely letter is supposed to do; however, it is not a binding commitment and from time to time players have gone elsewhere in the interim, often for PWO offers at other schools.
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Post by hchoops on May 10, 2023 13:45:44 GMT -5
DFW, Does not Gtown participate in the NLI as a member of the Big East in most sports ?
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 10, 2023 14:14:12 GMT -5
DFW, Does not Gtown participate in the NLI as a member of the Big East in most sports ? Per page 8 of the NLI document below, "The NLI definition of a written offer of athletics aid is defined as athletically related financial aid as opposed to countable aid not from an athletics source." As such, some Georgetown sports could offer it and others could not because not all sports offer athletic aid. www.nationalletter.org/documentLibrary/administrativeGuidelines.pdf
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