Redshirting

I don't think non-medical red-shirts are the panacea that some/many believe it will be, particularly now that the NCAA has opened wide the barndoor on football transfers. Because,

1.) The coach is telling an athlete that he is not yet good enough to make the three-deep roster, so he will be red-shirted to give him an additional year to improve / become bigger, faster, whatever.

2.) Those on full scollies are quite unlikely to be red-shirted, meaning those on partials, or walk-ons will be red-shirted. (Full scollies are likely to make the three-deep by sophomore year.)

3.) In another thread, I recited the six year tenure of the captain of William & Mary's football captain for 2022.. His undergraduate degree is in economics, no indication of a double major. Presumably 12 semesters of undergraduate studies. A resident of Virginia from a wealthy DC suburb, it is likely that during his first year of matriculation -- 2017 when he was on the scout team -- he was on a partial scollie, or no scollie. (In-state cost of attendance at W&M for 2022-23, is $38,000). Subsequent to the 2017 season, he was a game participant in 2018, 2019, 2020-21, 2021, and 2022. His total stats for his first four years of participation were more those of a journeyman who was second or third string. (His stats for 2022 were very good.)

HC is unlikely to carry a red-shirted football player for ten semesters, let alone twelve. For a red-shirt partial scollie, the 9th semester might cost $20+ thousand. Is it worth it?

4.) The change in transfer rules. IMO, if HC were to red-shirt a full scollie, he likely might bolt at the end of his soph year. And unless they academically withdrew for a semester in their sophomore or junior year, partial scollies might take their fifth year elsewhere in graduate school. One remarkable aspect of the recent HC 2022 season was the extraordinary number of fifth-year seniors. For that, I credit the head coach. He retained the polished gems, and they rewarded.

5.) The COVID fifth year seniors are unique, universal (i.e., everyone on the roster during the COVID year automatically was granted an additional year of eligibility), and non-replicable. Many are players who were multi-year first or second string.

6.) A significant number of HC players have already had the equivalent of a fifth year, --in prep school. Sluka, for example.

7.) Without a graduate school, and after the quest of a national championship wears off, HC's eligible fifth year seniors are probably more likely to transfer than remain. IIRC, Villanova's roster for 2022 had more graduate transfers than it did in-house Villanova fifth years (who also could be in graduate school at Villanova.)

8.) Every red-shirted fifth year takes away playing time from first and second year players.
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ESPN's March 2022 interviews with fifth / sixth year seniors in hoops, and why they stayed at their school.
www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33389841/i-honestly-never-expected-super-seniors-reflect-getting-extra-year-two-college-basketball

I’ve heard no ‘panacea’ claims. I have heard it puts us on more equal footing with other top FCS programs.

One of MANY components to FCS football success.

I don't know if he makes the huge decision for himself and his family based on that one factor. I think whether or not HC can come close to matching the dollars in a desirable FBS offer would be a major factor in any decision to leave also.

Handcuffing yourself against the rest of the FCS would be a big reason Chesney would go. We all know money and FBS prestige is at the top but there are factors HC can control to make his decision harder.

Yes, a joke about my own lack of athleticism. The physical maturity and skill development of an actual college athlete is obviously much greater in the fifth season than the first season.

I can see the benefit like everyone else and even would consider trading the PL auto bid while remaining eligible for an at large bid if that was the cost of HC unilaterally adopting non-medical fifth year players while the rest of the league voted to not use them.

I think its more of an institutional issue that needs to be looked at as opposed to "caving to the demands of a coach". Which to our knowledge, our coach has made no such ultimatum.

Operationally, non-medical redshirts are no different than medical redshirts. Only difference being that the student-athlete has more time to plan his academic career around the former.

As far as the idea that 5th years at all compromise the academic integrity of our beloved liberal arts college, as some have opined, I dont see a valid argument. In fact, the academic and extracurricular accomplishments of Peter Oliver pretty much KO that argument.

Also, no one complained during the Willard era when Pat Doherty and Andrew Keister both were on full scholarship for 10 full sememsters at Holy Cross. Football 5th years are either a) adding 1 semster or b) simply withdrawing for a semester and graduating late. Not complicated. And plenty of non-athletes at HC have done the same over the years.

No one said he threatened to leave.

However you can take it to the bank that he has and will continue to bring this up in meetings with uppers.

Why give him a fixable reason to leave?

Unless people want him to and have football remain in a self-restricting league.

I also doubt Coach Chesney thinks in terms of absolutes, demands, red lines, etc. But I don't think any academic policies would be changed because a student can take a leave of absence for a semester, finish up in the fall of a fifth year and walk in the spring even if no sport is involved.

Matunuck in another thread asked about Univ. of Richmond.

For the University of Richmond,

90 on the roster in 2022.
16 freshmen
15 redshirt freshmen (most/all are second year students)
3 sophomores
19 redshirt sophomores (most/all are third year students)
1 junior
21 redshirt juniors (most/all are fourth year students)
11 redshirt seniors (most/all are fifth year students)
4 graduate students (all graduated from elsewhere)

It would also seem that about 10 of the potential redshirt seniors took a walk, either to another school, or employment.

I think the tally reflects that Richmond classified anyone who received an extra year of eligibility as a redshirt. The COVID-eligibles were those rostered in 2020-21. A freshman rostered in 2020-21 would have an additional year of eligibility: 2020-21, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024.
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For Villanova, the 2022 roster, 89 on the roster

25 freshmen
9 redshirt sophomores (who are third years)
20 sophomores
12 juniors
12 seniors
6 graduate students (fifth (or sixth year?) seniors, all graduates of Villanova)
5 graduate students (graduated from elsewhere, e.g., Harvard, Rice, San Jose State, UNC Charlotte, UAlbany))

The diminishing numbers by class over time suggests that Villanova attrited x number of redshirts between junior and senior year.

Villanova is also a good example of the effects, insidious and otherwise, of the subsequent change in the transfer rule and the added COVID eligibility.  In its 2019 roster, Villanova had no graduate students, eight redshirt freshmen, and 17 sophomores.      

And then left for WPI to get a higher salary if I'm remembering correctly.

So, from PP’s Data, we had about the same number of 5th years as University of Richmond and Villanova. Good company. Now let’s catch ‘em in the academic reputation and rankings department.