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Post by mm67 on Feb 5, 2023 20:36:25 GMT -5
I believe the 2022-23 season is Nelson's fourth year at the helm. No? Questions: Didn't the school sign Coach Nelson to a five year contract? Wouldn't this indicate HC is committed to giving Nelson five years to grow the team? Does the school have an ethical responsibility to live up to its contractual commitment? Or, is the commitment merely to pay him for the five years. I would hope & expect HC to act ethically. Not to follow the everybody does it crowd but to carve out a special place. Naivete 101.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 5, 2023 20:42:35 GMT -5
Buy him out of his contract if it is a five year deal.
Nothing unethical about that. Happens all the time.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 5, 2023 20:52:01 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Feb 5, 2023 21:27:26 GMT -5
Wow. I realize hindsight is 20-20. But how could Blossom have been more wrong ? I guess it was some sort of combination of Blossom’s incapacity to see through the words Nelson spoke and Nelson either believing these words or acting out a role. I could go through these quotes, but you have read them. And most importantly have seen the results. Do the right thing, Kit Hughes.
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Post by Tom on Feb 5, 2023 22:34:44 GMT -5
How many of his freshman recruits have graduated or still in the program Portal created major problems, but it treats all schools equally if there is a reason or desire to transfer make your own assessments 8 Montgomery, Rabinovich, Coulibaly, Kenney, Batch, Kirkwood, Nugent, and Singleton Yes, I know that 2 of those freshmen recruits aren't exactly freshmen yet
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 5, 2023 22:40:53 GMT -5
The article correctly references many alums at the press conference and I have a picture immediately after the presser of hcfc45, dimarz, 8485, myself, Jehyve Floyd with Brett. Everyone all smiles. As Carroll O'Connor ("Archie Bunker") used to sing: "Those were the days." 😂
I believe that 45 gave Brett a copy of that picture that my wife took as a momento. I'm sure he put it in a place of honor in his house to mark the occasion.
If I get a chance, I'll try to copy and post it.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 6, 2023 0:06:49 GMT -5
I believe the 2022-23 season is Nelson's fourth year at the helm. No? Questions: Didn't the school sign Coach Nelson to a five year contract? Wouldn't this indicate HC is committed to giving Nelson five years to grow the team? Does the school have an ethical responsibility to live up to its contractual commitment? Or, is the commitment merely to pay him for the five years. I would hope & expect HC to act ethically. Not to follow the everybody does it crowd but to carve out a special place. Naivete 101. Zero ethical difference if fired or retained. Legal requirement to pay whatever he is entitled to under the contract. If you buy a loaf of bread you have no ethical responsibility to Pepperidge Farm to finish every slice. If you feel it's stale you can dump it.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 6, 2023 1:35:01 GMT -5
Eight players were mentioned in the article. All but Jehyve Floyd, who graduated before Brett arrived, left without graduating. MB saw a candidate on the rise but that was as an assistant at schools different than Holy Cross.
Unions could learn from college basketball and football head coaches how to put the employer over a barrel. To me there was nothing in Nelson's background that warranted a guarantee of any sort. In business that type of untested applicant is often hired with a probationary period before becoming a permanent employee.
The most fair probationary period for a completely inexperienced head coach to me would be one season (3-29 and the most player exits in HC history?) But most ADs think they have hired the next John Wooden and want to lock him up for five years.
To me the biggest fear for Holy Cross is Kit not getting it right in his first ever major hire as an AD like FADMB didn't get it right with his first major hire and did better with Magarity and Riga.
HC could hire the next head coach on a one year contract which would serve as a probationary period. They won't of course. Kit will hire the next John Wooden and obligate Holy Cross for two million or more over the next five years. It's how things are done. It's how they've always been done.
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Post by sader81 on Feb 6, 2023 6:27:52 GMT -5
HC could hire the next head coach on a one year contract which would serve as a probationary period. They won't of course. Kit will hire the next John Wooden and obligate Holy Cross for two million or more over the next five years. It's how things are done. It's how they've always been done. Who would take that job? Coming into a situation where your best player graduated, the only bigs were injured and unproven, and the remaining guys will jump into the portal the second they disagree with any word you say. You have to give any incoming coach a few years to prove himself.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 6, 2023 6:47:28 GMT -5
L/S doesn’t really think his one year probationary contract is realistic. While I know I am a broken record on the subject, I think a combination of carrots and sticks could work.
I absolutely think a 4-5 year contract in which a new coach gets paid in full regardless of results and even if fired for non-performance before the end of the contract is flat out stupid.
But, yeah, a variation of what some criticized Milan’s contract with a bonus if he won 20 games works for me as long as it doesn’t include non-D-1 teams.
Spell out non-performance such as failure to win 10 games. Termination of contract early might pay a percentage of the annual salary (50%? 75%?) but NOT 100%!
Again, bonus incentives included. High risk, high rewards.
A coach who believes he is the next John Wooden would be attracted to the job IMO.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 6, 2023 7:53:49 GMT -5
I believe the 2022-23 season is Nelson's fourth year at the helm. No? Questions: Didn't the school sign Coach Nelson to a five year contract? Wouldn't this indicate HC is committed to giving Nelson five years to grow the team? Does the school have an ethical responsibility to live up to its contractual commitment? Or, is the commitment merely to pay him for the five years. I would hope & expect HC to act ethically. Not to follow the everybody does it crowd but to carve out a special place. Naivete 101. The 5th year if not supplemented with a new extension/contract of some sorts, is a lose-lose situation. Recruiting is damaged for the near future (yes, HC would keep those 2 recruits but get Wilbar level replacements for other open scholarships; or none at all). Program slides even more, which doesn't do anything for the coach or the school or the players still here. I wish I had a different answer because at my age and work career, hate to see anyone lose their job. Peace.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 6, 2023 7:58:33 GMT -5
Eight players were mentioned in the article. All but Jehyve Floyd, who graduated before Brett arrived, left without graduating. MB saw a candidate on the rise but that was as an assistant at schools different than Holy Cross. Unions could learn from college basketball and football head coaches how to put the employer over a barrel. To me there was nothing in Nelson's background that warranted a guarantee of any sort. In business that type of untested applicant is often hired with a probationary period before becoming a permanent employee. The most fair probationary period for a completely inexperienced head coach to me would be one season (3-29 and the most player exits in HC history?) But most ADs think they have hired the next John Wooden and want to lock him up for five years. To me the biggest fear for Holy Cross is Kit not getting it right in his first ever major hire as an AD like FADMB didn't get it right with his first major hire and did better with Magarity and Riga. HC could hire the next head coach on a one year contract which would serve as a probationary period. They won't of course. Kit will hire the next John Wooden and obligate Holy Cross for two million or more over the next five years. It's how things are done. It's how they've always been done. The only way I can see that working is if Nelson left in the summer like Bill did and they had enough confidence in RJ or another assistant to step in as an interim coach. And the only way Nelson leaves under those circumstances is if there's a similar paying job waiting for him somewhere else, top assistant most likely (don't see UWGB or an other program in the doldrums seeing Brett Nelson as their savior). Very remote possibility of this scenario coming to fruition.
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Post by crosspride on Feb 6, 2023 8:09:52 GMT -5
Holy Cross has next to no leverage in this upcoming coaching search and contract negotiation. Try to work any poor performance triggers into the contract and the coach will laugh at Kit and go take the Bucknell job.
Based on poor performance over 15 years, shortest average tenure for any job in the league over that period, and 4 head coaching careers ending, HC is currently the worst job in the Patriot League. We’ll have to attract strong head coaching candidates a different way, and that will most likely be salary and incentives well above the league average.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 6, 2023 9:27:38 GMT -5
We won’t need to offer a salary above the league average if we target and land a young highly successful head coach from D2 or D3 who has no doubt been getting paid much less than PL level $$. That man will have a much greater likelihood of success than a D-1 assistant who has never led a program.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 6, 2023 9:57:22 GMT -5
Random thoughts... I wonder what HC's reputation is among the b-ball coaching fraternity. A revolving door of head coaches can't be good for the program. In fact it must be disastrous to keep firing & hiring coaches after short stints. It seems HC basketball has become a graveyard for coaches. Coach BN appears to be a decent family man. One could give him some slack for learning on the job but there has been little progress over the past four years. Every year seems to be a repeat of the previous year. The team seems to be on an unending treadmill of losing. Is BN a modern Sisyphus? The wholesale loss of players to the transfer portal over the years is extremely troubling. Why has BN failed to inspire loyalty among his guys? Has HC had a string of Kyrie Irving attitude players? Is there a Hud-like failure to communicate? Does BN believe in HC? Does he truly get that HC is a place where a young person can have it all. Does he transmit any love of HC to his players? Admittedly, this year there has been some improvement in the overall play of the team. The guys play hard and appear to be high quality, motivated young men. Lack of height & depth have been killers. Has his team shown enough improvement this year to provide hope for the future? Or, will there continue to be wholesale transfers and more of the same? Bad luck? One could claim BN has been unlucky over the years and this year too with injuries to the big men on top of transfers. However if "good luck" is the product of good design then "bad luck" is...
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Post by Chu Chu on Feb 6, 2023 10:24:47 GMT -5
Put Ralph Willard on the interview and hiring committee!
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 6, 2023 11:35:04 GMT -5
Random thoughts... I wonder what HC's reputation is among the b-ball coaching fraternity. A revolving door of head coaches can't be good for the program. In fact it must be disastrous to keep firing & hiring coaches after short stints. It seems HC basketball has become a graveyard of coaches. Coach BN appears to be a decent family man. One could give him some slack for learning on the job but there has been little progress over the past four years. Every year seems to be a repeat of the previous year. The team seems to be on an unending treadmill of losing. Is BN a modern Sisyphus? The wholesale loss of players to the transfer portal over the years is extremely troubling. Why has BN failed to inspire loyalty among his guys? Has HC had a string of Kyrie Irving attitude players? Is there a Hud-like failure to communicate? Does BN believe in HC? Does he truly get that HC is a place where a young person can have it all. Does he transmit any love of HC to his players? Admittedly, this year there has been some improvement in the overall play of the team. The guys play hard and appear to be high quality, motivated young men. Lack of height & depth have been killers. Has his team shown enough improvement this year to provide hope for the future? Or, will there continue to be wholesale transfers and more of the same? Bad luck? One could claim BN has been unlucky over the years and this year too with injuries to the big men on top of transfers. However if "good luck" is the product of good design then "bad luck" is... Our reputation can't be good. Whether you want to blame the one-and-done, lazy analysis that the school has an itchy trigger finger (it does not), or the PL is a tough place to get good players (may be closer to the truth), the wins and losses, retention and graduation rates, are the reality. Someone will look at that and say: "No way, not for me... too much risk, too tenuous the success, too low the reward." That's not a ridiculously outlandish take. Someone else might look and say: "Only one way to go up, easy to become big fish in a little pond, I'll fill 4,000 people in the Hart Center easily, untapped potential," and all other things like that. It's that latter hypothetical prospective coach that I want.
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Post by trimster on Feb 6, 2023 11:48:14 GMT -5
Put Ralph Willard on the interview and hiring committee! I would include Bob Chesney on the committee.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 6, 2023 13:19:00 GMT -5
Random thoughts... I wonder what HC's reputation is among the b-ball coaching fraternity. A revolving door of head coaches can't be good for the program. In fact it must be disastrous to keep firing & hiring coaches after short stints. It seems HC basketball has become a graveyard for coaches. Coach BN appears to be a decent family man. One could give him some slack for learning on the job but there has been little progress over the past four years. Every year seems to be a repeat of the previous year. The team seems to be on an unending treadmill of losing. Is BN a modern Sisyphus? The wholesale loss of players to the transfer portal over the years is extremely troubling. Why has BN failed to inspire loyalty among his guys? Has HC had a string of Kyrie Irving attitude players? Is there a Hud-like failure to communicate? Does BN believe in HC? Does he truly get that HC is a place where a young person can have it all. Does he transmit any love of HC to his players? Admittedly, this year there has been some improvement in the overall play of the team. The guys play hard and appear to be high quality, motivated young men. Lack of height & depth have been killers. Has his team shown enough improvement this year to provide hope for the future? Or, will there continue to be wholesale transfers and more of the same? Bad luck? One could claim BN has been unlucky over the years and this year too with injuries to the big men on top of transfers. However if "good luck" is the product of good design then "bad luck" is... Right leading actor, wrong movie. Believe I watched Cool Hand Luke in the famed Kimball Cinemauditorium. RIP Strother Martin, a fixture in several Paul Newman films.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 6, 2023 13:24:11 GMT -5
Put Ralph Willard on the interview and hiring committee! I would include Bob Chesney on the committee. Indianhoop and princetoncrusader should be on the committee.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 6, 2023 13:24:24 GMT -5
Put Ralph Willard on the interview and hiring committee! I would include Bob Chesney on the committee. Just don't consider the guy now at Assumption, hasn't shown much at the D2 level after being lights out at Nichols.
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Post by Tom on Feb 6, 2023 13:33:11 GMT -5
I would include Bob Chesney on the committee. Just don't consider the guy now at Assumption, hasn't shown much at the D2 level after being lights out at Nichols. Damn - so succeeding at a lower level is no guarantee to success one step up?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 6, 2023 13:44:27 GMT -5
Just don't consider the guy now at Assumption, hasn't shown much at the D2 level after being lights out at Nichols. Damn - so succeeding at a lower level is no guarantee to success one step up? Imagine if it was. Then no assistant coach would get promoted ever. Even the ones that appear to be slam dunks. As a Fordham "subway alum", I was thrilled when the Rams hired Tom Pecora, didn't think he could miss.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 6, 2023 14:33:07 GMT -5
Just don't consider the guy now at Assumption, hasn't shown much at the D2 level after being lights out at Nichols. Damn - so succeeding at a lower level is no guarantee to success one step up? Right you are: no guarantee--but one negative example does not disprove the theory.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 6, 2023 15:28:32 GMT -5
He’s being sarcastic, KY. But you know that.
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