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Post by Chu Chu on Feb 23, 2023 9:41:35 GMT -5
Do not understand Georgetown. One could understand if the school had a philosophical problem with athletic scholarships and opted for need-base assistance across the board.(Happens to be my preference.) But, such is not the case. The school goes all in on basketball with athletic scholarships & some would say a relaxed admission standard. Why not scholarships for football, too? Is it due to the high costs of Big East competition in various sports? Or, is it a TitleIX issue? Is there a fact-based non speculative explanation? I think that they are just not that into football on an administrative or student body level. Their entire approach, from a lack of scholarships to lackadaisical facilities says, "We don't really care".
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Post by gks on Feb 23, 2023 12:26:15 GMT -5
If Georgetown wants their football team to stink that's their choice.
Beat them by 40 and move on.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 23, 2023 14:23:11 GMT -5
We have a resident expert on everything Georgetown related who can provide a rolodex of reasons for why things are the way they are with regards to that fine institution's football program.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 24, 2023 6:53:44 GMT -5
It is fascinating that Georgetown’s admin sees no upside (if they are even looking) in either improving football or pulling the plug on football. Some sort of finely balanced apathy regarding the program.
To be fair, we have a few sports at HC in similar circumstances. (Baseball ?)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 24, 2023 8:01:40 GMT -5
When picking on Georgetown, one shouldn't overlook that most of their athletes probably matriculate at Georgetown College*, which has an undergraduate enrollment of 3,500+. The other four undergraduate schools are Foreign Service 1600+, Qatar <450, McDonough (business) 1,350, and Nursing<500.
* Georgetown does not list majors in the player bio information.
Also, undergraduate enrollment in the District of Columbia is capped at 6,675. (Qatar is outside the cap.)
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 24, 2023 9:30:47 GMT -5
Who established that 6,675 cap, Georgetown or DC?
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Post by midwestsader05 on Feb 25, 2023 11:08:54 GMT -5
I have to agree Georgetown football is trending in the wrong direction irrespective of any 5th year issues. It’s a simple case of non-schollies and high AI -as well as the general (non) support of admin. Beyond that, the notion that HC having 5th-years (now or in the past or in the future) puts HC at a competitive disadvantage doesn’t make sense to me in any case. Here's my train of thought: a non-medical red shirt at Holy Cross who is good enough to be offered a scholarship for a fifth year at HC or elsewhere has a more complicated decision than a peer at a University. If the Crusader stays loyal to HC he doesn't get a free one year masters degree. A quality red shirt player at a University might still choose to become a grad transfer to a university that offers academic programs more to his liking or plays at a higher level, but would have the option of attending grad school at his Alma Mater that the Holy Cross red shirt doesn't have. Not the biggest disadvantage. Maybe Holy Cross would keep 50% of our grad transfers - football players and others like Austin Butler and Avery Labarbera, if we had graduate studies. I think the window of potential 5th year players that would face a difficult choice is fairly small. A double major at HC (which near all of our 5th years are doing) is as enticing as a 1 year scholi for a graduate program. Mind you generic MAs and even MBA’s are not the resume horses they used to be even 15 years ago. Unless a player has a desire for a Master’s in a very niche degree (STEM) or has access to a top 20 MBA program (where it’s more about the social capital vs actual education) most will choose the double major and to stay at HC IMO. So I’m thinking about the player that can graduate from HC in 4 years and has an offer to get a free year at Kellogg (Northwestern), Kelley (Indiana) or a Rice (STEM) etc., those are really the only one’s that would have a really tough decision to make and most of us would likely understand and wish them well if they had accomplished all of their football and academic goals at HC. Some recent examples: Reich could have left after the 21 season with his HC degree and had 2 years of eligibility at Villanova and his entire MBA comp’d (2 year program), but he didn’t. Reynolds and Brekke similar boat, took their Covid 5th years at HC and med redshirt (6th years) to the MAC. Ayir - he wants to play football as long as possible. 3 year starter at HC. His decision is football and not academic. If he wants a shot at the USFL, XFL etc. then he needs a big year at an FBS program that chunks the ball 40-50 times a game. Bowler - one we likely “lost” to Richmond, though he lettered and used his one year of eligibility in 21. If he completed his MA/MBA, 2nd year cost was on him. Foley - probably best example of the player we would be at risk of losing. Duke amazing school and since they redshirted him in 21, he got his entire MA paid for by an elite University. My argument would be even if HC had grad studies that’s still an uphill battle to retain that player with that option for year 5. Lang - fulfilled lifelong dream with PWO at FSU. Decision entirely football related. The 4 to watch in ‘24 that will have very compelling decisions are Sluka, Jalen, Newman and Schon. All will have FBS offers if they enter the portal (Barring injury or other setbacks this season) Good news is I spoke to a current player a couple weeks back that is already thinking about his 5th year and likely going to double major in Econ and political science at HC. The big point I’m trying to make, For the majority of cases, I think the decision for those 4 and others down the road is primarily about football first and a graduate degree/academics second. And I’ll use those 4 I mentioned as an example. If it’s between a 5th year at HC or the most prestigious academic schools with good FCS football programs (Villanova, Richmond, Bill and Mary) for their 5th years…odds are very strong they are coming back to HC. Now if it’s between HC and bottom third P5 programs like BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, IU, Duke, Vandy (with potentially some decent NIL money) etc. or even top 3rd G5 programs like JMU, App St etc….that’s where the tougher decisions will be made.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 25, 2023 11:32:35 GMT -5
HC has a strong case to make for football and the option to just come back for the fall semester is more flexible than for basketball players whose season covers both semesters.
Since Sluka is a year advanced anyway because of prep school, I wonder if he would fare well by making himself available for the NFL after next season?
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Post by midwestsader05 on Feb 25, 2023 11:36:54 GMT -5
HC has a strong case to make for football and the option to just come back for the fall semester is more flexible than for basketball players whose season covers both semesters. Since Sluka is a year advanced anyway because of prep school, I wonder if he would fare well by making himself available for the NFL after next season? Sluka is the ultimate competitor. He will look for the next big challenge if he feels like he’s proven everything he needs to at HC. He will be FBS or professional if not back at HC in ‘24. He ain’t going to another FCS program even if the likes of SDSU/NDSU are all over him…IMHO.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 25, 2023 11:52:13 GMT -5
Is there any chance Dobbs is back in 2024?
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Post by midwestsader05 on Feb 25, 2023 11:59:24 GMT -5
No, HC can’t take 6th year students. See Reich, Reynolds and Brekke.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 25, 2023 13:52:40 GMT -5
Here's my train of thought: a non-medical red shirt at Holy Cross who is good enough to be offered a scholarship for a fifth year at HC or elsewhere has a more complicated decision than a peer at a University. If the Crusader stays loyal to HC he doesn't get a free one year masters degree. A quality red shirt player at a University might still choose to become a grad transfer to a university that offers academic programs more to his liking or plays at a higher level, but would have the option of attending grad school at his Alma Mater that the Holy Cross red shirt doesn't have. Not the biggest disadvantage. Maybe Holy Cross would keep 50% of our grad transfers - football players and others like Austin Butler and Avery Labarbera, if we had graduate studies. I think the window of potential 5th year players that would face a difficult choice is fairly small. A double major at HC (which near all of our 5th years are doing) is as enticing as a 1 year scholi for a graduate program... Agreed. And we don’t have to guess about 5th-years because we’ve seen it play out to HC’s benefit the last couple of years.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 25, 2023 13:53:56 GMT -5
…Since Sluka is a year advanced anyway because of prep school, I wonder if he would fare well by making himself available for the NFL after next season? Prep school is quite common here in the northeast for football players and has nothing to do with player decisions in this regard.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 26, 2023 11:31:42 GMT -5
HC has a strong case to make for football and the option to just come back for the fall semester is more flexible than for basketball players whose season covers both semesters. Since Sluka is a year advanced anyway because of prep school, I wonder if he would fare well by making himself available for the NFL after next season?I think more likely he looks to utilize his COVID year either at Holy Cross as a 5th year senior or at an FBS school if the right opportunity opens up and he's promised the job. Could see him being a fit somewhere like a Wake Forest, Vanderbilt or Tulane. I think despite aging out an extra year, his draft stock (if he's indeed an NFL prospect as far as the metrics go) would greatly benefit from a good year at a higher level of play.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 26, 2023 11:52:28 GMT -5
HC has a strong case to make for football and the option to just come back for the fall semester is more flexible than for basketball players whose season covers both semesters. Since Sluka is a year advanced anyway because of prep school, I wonder if he would fare well by making himself available for the NFL after next season?I think more likely he looks to utilize his COVID year either at Holy Cross as a 5th year senior or at an FBS school if the right opportunity opens up and he's promised the job. Could see him being a fit somewhere like a Wake Forest, Vanderbilt or Tulane. I think despite aging out an extra year, his draft stock (if he's indeed an NFL prospect as far as the metrics go) would greatly benefit from a good year at a higher level of play. I’m thinking a one-year FBS QB pickup is highly unlikely (of course if he zips it all over the field and flashes FBS-level foot speed while leading us to victory over BC maybe he and Chesney will go to the Eagles in a package deal). Much more likely he comes back for a 5th year at HC. Depending on his 40 time and some other metrics there might be a position for him on a CFL/NFL/XFL roster in a couple of years.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 26, 2023 12:07:28 GMT -5
I believe any player who has played four years of college football is eligible for an NFL team to draft. So it could be a battle between NIL money and NFL salary and signing bonus money for a talented fifth year player.
Not saying this will effect Sluka. But I think Covid fifth years could be drafted even if they plan to play a fifth year in college. One variant is there is always the chance of getting cut from the NFL without ever playing a game. Not sure if they could hop back on a college team if that happened, play and then enter the next year's draft.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 26, 2023 12:23:40 GMT -5
If he wanted to, Sluka would've been eligible for the 2022 NFL Draft due to his prep year. He graduated from Kellenberg Memorial HS in June 2019. He's also eligible for the upcoming 2023 NFL draft if he so chose.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 26, 2023 19:07:45 GMT -5
Another poster and I have been going back and forth on how HC is able to carry so many scollie players on the roster. I came across articles from 2020 that the so-called super seniors, the Covid fifth years, would not count against the NCAA scollie caps. If a school wanted to pay for the extra scollies, it could. If these articles are true, that explains how HC was able to roster so much talent for the 2022 season. And goes for other schools as well. But this was a once in a generation, or maybe a once in a multi-generations opportunity. Like the snow in Lake Arrowhead CA, in San Bernardino County, east of Los Angeles County near the I-15 highway that links LA and Las Vegas. Forecast to get another 18-24 inches Monday and Tuesday.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 26, 2023 19:32:40 GMT -5
Another poster and I have been going back and forth on how HC is able to carry so many scollie players on the roster. I came across articles from 2020 that the so-called super seniors, the Covid fifth years, would not count against the NCAA scollie caps. If a school wanted to pay for the extra scollies, it could. If these articles are true, that explains how HC was able to roster so much talent for the 2022 season. And goes for other schools as well. But this was a once in a generation, or maybe a once in a many generations opportunity. Like the snow in Lake Arrowhead CA, in San Bernardino County, east of Los Angeles County near the I-15 highway that links LA and Las Vegas. Forecast to get another 18-24 inches Monday and Tuesday. If HC quietly absorbed the cost to go beyond max FB schollies, it's a possible indication that Coach and President are on the same wavelength and they got the new AD thinking the same way when he arrived...or before he was hired. I don't think HC starved any program but they went above and beyond to support the program best able to leverage that money for long term benefit of the college. Smaht.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 26, 2023 20:33:28 GMT -5
^^^ Decisions with respect to the football roster for the fall 2021 season were made before the arrival of ADKH and VR. How many COVID fifth years were on the fall 2021 roster?
--------------------- The fall 2022 roster may have had 70-75 equivalences, half-way between a nominal FCS and FBS roster. Assuming they only matriculated for one semester, the cost might be between $350,000 and $400,000.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 26, 2023 20:51:38 GMT -5
No doubt the administration will be the brakeman and not allow the football program to morph into a runaway train.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 27, 2023 7:24:55 GMT -5
No doubt the administration will be the brakeman and not allow the football program to morph into a runaway train. The tenure of the fifth year "super seniors" is basically running out. A football player had to be rostered in the fall of 2020 to be eligible. The fall of 2023 will be their fourth year of eligibility, and fall of 2024 will be their final year. And unless the NCAA makes permanent rule changes, the 63 equivalency cap for FCS and the max of 25 recruits receiving scholarship aid in any year return.. I suspect the latter cap particularly will be studied in the context of the transfer rule and the NIL. www.goodbullhunting.com/2023/1/19/23557588/where-did-texas-a-m-aggies-transfer-portal-players-end-up
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Post by gks on Feb 27, 2023 7:44:38 GMT -5
^^^ Decisions with respect to the football roster for the fall 2021 season were made before the arrival of ADKH and VR. How many COVID fifth years were on the fall 2021 roster? --------------------- The fall 2022 roster may have had 70-75 equivalences, half-way between a nominal FCS and FBS roster. Assuming they only matriculated for one semester, the cost might be between $350,000 and $400,000. I don't think the amount of scholarship aid increased. Roster limits, yes. The 60 (PL) limit, no. Where was this allowed by the NCAA? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 27, 2023 7:52:05 GMT -5
No doubt the administration will be the brakeman and not allow the football program to morph into a runaway train. The tenure of the fifth year "super seniors" is basically running out. A football player had to be rostered in the fall of 2020 to be eligible. The fall of 2023 will be their fourth year of eligibility, and fall of 2024 will be their final year. And unless the NCAA makes permanent rule changes, the 63 equivalency cap for FCS and the max of 25 recruits receiving scholarship aid in any year return.. I suspect the latter cap particularly will be studied in the context of the transfer rule and the NIL. www.goodbullhunting.com/2023/1/19/23557588/where-did-texas-a-m-aggies-transfer-portal-players-end-up Yes, Sluka and his peers are essentially the last with the additional Covid year. Which makes sense as we all recall that he came in as a frosh and actually started some games that Covid- shortened year.
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Post by trimster on Feb 27, 2023 8:45:23 GMT -5
Another poster and I have been going back and forth on how HC is able to carry so many scollie players on the roster. I came across articles from 2020 that the so-called super seniors, the Covid fifth years, would not count against the NCAA scollie caps. If a school wanted to pay for the extra scollies, it could. If these articles are true, that explains how HC was able to roster so much talent for the 2022 season. And goes for other schools as well. But this was a once in a generation, or maybe a once in a multi-generations opportunity. Like the snow in Lake Arrowhead CA, in San Bernardino County, east of Los Angeles County near the I-15 highway that links LA and Las Vegas. Forecast to get another 18-24 inches Monday and Tuesday. I know I read this fairly early in the whole Covid saga but my recollection was it read the cap would be lifted for the Class of ‘21 whose Senior year athletically was in danger of being wiped out by Covid, (what actually happened varied widely by conference, I.e. Ivies vs the Big Ten), but it would be a one year exception and not a 4 year exception.
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