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Post by longsuffering on Mar 3, 2023 11:04:39 GMT -5
Interesting drama playing out. If BN is retained, looks like ADKH does not have full control of the athletics. If I were him, my agent would be in close contact. Yes, Kit is getting long in the tooth as a Holy Cross AD.🤣 But I don't want him in full control. PVR strikes me as older and wiser and takes the whole institution into consideration and he has the accomplished Trustees as a check on him also. By agent being in close contact do you mean Kit's not having final approval on paying two MBB head coaches for two years simultaneously would be a violation of Kit's contract?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 3, 2023 11:08:37 GMT -5
While maybe it’s not technically his job on paper, the role of an AD that wants to win is to round up alumni support around key initiatives to do so. That includes fundraising for facilities, coaching salaries, contract buyouts, etc. Raising the money and momentum for a buyout from a prominent group of supporters essentially takes the decision out of the BOT’s hands. Who might these prominent and well-heeled group of supporters be? Any names. If you were to ask KH the names of such supporters for football, he could rattle oiff a few names. Possibly for men's ice hockey too, and a few other sports, excluding hoops, apparently. That's Kit's job, not mine.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 3, 2023 11:21:57 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 3, 2023 11:39:22 GMT -5
Who might these prominent and well-heeled group of supporters be? Any names. If you were to ask KH the names of such supporters for football, he could rattle oiff a few names. Possibly for men's ice hockey too, and a few other sports, excluding hoops, apparently. That's Kit's job, not mine. Biut you weigh in on coaching and that's also not your job
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Post by crusader99 on Mar 3, 2023 11:59:15 GMT -5
Interesting drama playing out. If BN is retained, looks like ADKH does not have full control of the athletics. If I were him, my agent would be in close contact. He never did. There is an Athletics Committee on the Board of Trustees. That committee oversees the athletic program. The Board of Trustees is a corporation, and runs the college. KH is an employee of the corporation, and not a member of the Board of Trustees. The current head of the athletics committee is an investment banker in Boston, and a HC graduate. I am certain the members of the BofT are very competent, accomplished and act in the best interest of the College. From my personal experience with several current and former BOT members, I whole heartly concur with that opinion. My point was to highlight the contrast in public perception. Credit was given to the AD and his staff for the successful extension of the FBall coach. Now, he is in a tough spot. He will face the blame for poor coaching decisions, including the retention of BN, which are not solely of his making. Perhaps that is part of the reason there has been such a high turnover at that position over the last several years. BN and other coaches know (or should know) that the AD is not the true decision maker, but apparently a facilitator of information to the decision makers at a higher level. If BN or others have access to those decision makers beyond a direct communication from the AD, the AD is undermined and hamstrung. I am not saying that this is in fact the case, but as an outside observer, the public perception is trending in that direction.
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Post by crusader99 on Mar 3, 2023 12:21:18 GMT -5
Interesting drama playing out. If BN is retained, looks like ADKH does not have full control of the athletics. If I were him, my agent would be in close contact. Yes, Kit is getting long in the tooth as a Holy Cross AD.🤣 But I don't want him in full control. PVR strikes me as older and wiser and takes the whole institution into consideration and he has the accomplished Trustees as a check on him also. By agent being in close contact do you mean Kit's not having final approval on paying two MBB head coaches for two years simultaneously would be a violation of Kit's contract? the terms of the contract are obviously private. The level of control over the Department would be a contractual term, i can only assume. I thought he was brought in to reshape athletics with an emphasis on improving the results consistent with HC's academic and institutional standards. Given the on-the-court results, recruiting, fund raising etc... BN is not the currently answer nor will he be in 2024/2025 (IMO) for the reasons stated by others in the various chats on this subject. The consumer knows if a product is worth purchasing (even at minimal costs). The students know how to spend their time and the area fans their money. Click on any sports channel or stream, you can see the student sections at many small, private non-major BBall schools filling their student sections; kids having clean fun. There would be a handful of area residence as well making a nice game day atmosphere. This is clearly missing at HC. The Years continuing down this path, are just a missed opportunities to connect the current students and recent alums to the College. I thought ADKH understood that, by retaining HCBN, it appears that others may not.
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Post by saderfan2020 on Mar 3, 2023 12:25:05 GMT -5
almost died reading the title of this thread
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Post by hc1998 on Mar 3, 2023 12:25:18 GMT -5
If for financial or other reasons Holy Cross chooses to continue with Brett Nelson as the head coach, are there ways to restructure the contract in ways favorable to Holy Cross or to incentivize performance?
Ideas?
Let me answer this as easily as possible...NOOOOOO. If HC does not want to send a strong message to its alums and fans and refuses to part ways with Nelson and prefers instead to avoid the financial hit, do not touch the contract...at all. Live with it for as long as we have to until it is financially feasible to let him go. Any restructuring would likely include giving Nelson more short term security (otherwise, why would he agree).
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 3, 2023 14:29:29 GMT -5
If there was ever a case for a "mutual parting of ways" this should be it.
HC supporters have checked out, and does anyone think Nelson really wants to go through another year of what has to feel like torture to him?
I understand Nelson's very competitive, and it may be his one chance at a D1 head coaching gig, but it feels like he would personally be better off using his leverage (assuming he has two years left on his deal) to negotiate a more reasonable buyout w/out an offset so he can take a nice check with him to a high-major bench where he can collect another nice check and take a restart on his career.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 3, 2023 14:44:29 GMT -5
He never did. There is an Athletics Committee on the Board of Trustees. That committee oversees the athletic program. The Board of Trustees is a corporation, and runs the college. KH is an employee of the corporation, and not a member of the Board of Trustees. The current head of the athletics committee is an investment banker in Boston, and a HC graduate. I am certain the members of the BofT are very competent, accomplished and act in the best interest of the College. From my personal experience with several current and former BOT members, I whole heartly concur with that opinion. My point was to highlight the contrast in public perception. Credit was given to the AD and his staff for the successful extension of the FBall coach. Now, he is in a tough spot. He will face the blame for poor coaching decisions, including the retention of BN, which are not solely of his making. Perhaps that is part of the reason there has been such a high turnover at that position over the last several years. BN and other coaches know (or should know) that the AD is not the true decision maker, but apparently a facilitator of information to the decision makers at a higher level. If BN or others have access to those decision makers beyond a direct communication from the AD, the AD is undermined and hamstrung. I am not saying that this is in fact the case, but as an outside observer, the public perception is trending in that direction. IMO, the BoT has changed dramatically in recent times. For 160 years, the Jesuits called the shots. One can look at the BoT membership 40-50-60 years ago, and half the embers are living in Loyola or Ciampi. IMO, the Jesuits are now a token, almost symbolic presence. The transition to the present BoT began with Fr. McF. When he left, Boroughs was appointed and one of his early responsibilities was to change the College's agreement with the Society of Jesus to allow a non-Jesuit to be chosen as President. It was posted here with respect to the Big East, that the then AD and then the men's basketball coach were running a play without the knowledge or approval of Fr. Brooks. If true, little wonder they were cut off at the knees when Brooks found out. Those were the old days. IMO, and I have posted this before, KH takes a very dim view of the current state of men's basketball. And I am certain he has discussed his views with the chair of the Athletic Committee. And a first question of any chair of the Athletics Committee worth his salt would be to ask KH, 'how will your preferred choice of a new coach both resurrect the fortunes of men's basketball, AND be successful in the current morass that is Div I hoops? What if KH were to reply, 'to do that, the program will need $200,000 in NIL money annually.' What do you expect the retort of the Chair of the BoT will be to that? ------------------- The previous chair of the BoT Athletics Committee is a man of some wealth, if compensation packages are to be believed. One of his basic charges to ADMB was to prepare a strategic plan for athletics, with specific goals for improving facilities, and increasing both fin aid and coaches' compensation relative to other PL schools. (KH has stated a fin aid goal that builds from that.) As this strategic plan was being developed, Sasaki was tasked to prepare options for renovating / expanding the rink. (This previous chair played ice hockey at HC.) Perhaps not coincidentally, once the plan was done and reviewed by the BoT, MB left shortly thereafter.
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Post by Xmassader on Mar 3, 2023 14:53:18 GMT -5
The price of having these carpet bagger, career climber, young wiper snapper ADs who are more concerned with their next job than actually making HC successful. Hughes has an easy out right now saying his hands are tied on basketball vs stepping up to the plate and putting a firing + hiring decision under his name. Did he invest too much Fenwick capital into procuring his ridiculous AVP title? Dunno. It is not his choice. Buyouts of this magnitude are approved by the BoT, and they may not be much interested in hueing to the demands of a vociferous but penurious fan base. And a rather small one at that. If you are a significant donor to HC men's basketball, why not write to KH directly and ask him what can be done about improving men's hoops, and how might alums help in that regard? It strikes me that if Crossports posters are only today becoming aware there could be multi-years remaining on BN's contract, they are badly out of touch with what's happening in Luth.   PP I don’t recall anywhere in posts over the last 1.5 yrs. where there was comment/speculation about HCBN having more than one year on his contract after this season. All of the discussion has been about whether he has a 4 or 5 year contract not 5 years with an additional 6th Covid year. In any case, if the 6 year contract is correct, I think it’s even more incumbent on ADKH to publicly announce the steps that he and HCBN intend to take over the next two years so that the program is not going to slide further in the NET rankings and/or irrelevance, particularly if TPTB don’t want to fund a substantial buyout. Marking time for one or two more years should not be the answer but, if it is his and TPTB’s answer, then at least they should fill us in.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 3, 2023 14:56:14 GMT -5
Weren't the departures of NP and MB for logical career advancement from a low major/FCS school to higher salaries at higher profile FBS and P-6 schools?
I don't see any room for other reasons. HC pays a fine FCS/low major salary but not as much as the higher revenue schools.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 3, 2023 15:32:23 GMT -5
It is not his choice. Buyouts of this magnitude are approved by the BoT, and they may not be much interested in hueing to the demands of a vociferous but penurious fan base. And a rather small one at that. If you are a significant donor to HC men's basketball, why not write to KH directly and ask him what can be done about improving men's hoops, and how might alums help in that regard? It strikes me that if Crossports posters are only today becoming aware there could be multi-years remaining on BN's contract, they are badly out of touch with what's happening in Luth. PP I don’t recall anywhere in posts over the last 1.5 yrs. where there was comment/speculation about HCBN having more than one year on his contract after this season. All of the discussion has been about whether he has a 4 or 5 year contract not 5 years with an additional 6th Covid year. In any case, if the 6 year contract is correct, I think it’s even more incumbent on ADKH to publicly announce the steps that he and HCBN intend to take over the next two years so that the program is not going to slide further in the NET rankings and/or irrelevance, particularly if TPTB don’t want to fund a substantial buyout. Marking time for one or two more years should not be the answer but, if it is his and TPTB’s answer, then at least they should fill us in. I hadn't heard about it either, until a poster said earlier today that head coaches' contracts were given an additional year because of COVID. There was no documentation associated with that statement. Worcestergray than began a whole thread about modifying BN contract to allow for an earlier exit if the team's performance was not satisfactory. And it was off to the races. There are many posters with a lot to say, yet little influence. Not one poster has suggested contacting the Chair of the Athletics Committee. Not one poster has yet indicated he knows the Chair as a classmate. I've yet to see a poster make a comment about the Chair's Twitter account, with its recent tweets about men's hoops at another New England school, ---which would suggest the Chair has more than a passing interest in college hoops. Otherwise, I agree with your key points.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 3, 2023 17:49:57 GMT -5
If there was ever a case for a "mutual parting of ways" this should be it. HC supporters have checked out, and does anyone think Nelson really wants to go through another year of what has to feel like torture to him? I understand Nelson's very competitive, and it may be his one chance at a D1 head coaching gig, but it feels like he would personally be better off using his leverage (assuming he has two years left on his deal) to negotiate a more reasonable buyout w/out an offset so he can take a nice check with him to a high-major bench where he can collect another nice check and take a restart on his career. I think so as well. I feel at this point it's in his best interests to seek out a new position.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 3, 2023 17:51:57 GMT -5
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Post by Xmassader on Mar 3, 2023 17:55:09 GMT -5
I met the current chair of the BOT Athletic Committee for the first time several weeks ago at a reception for President Rougeau in Florida. He is the father of a former walk-on mens’ hooper. We did not speak in great detail about the hoop program. But he was in a group with the parents of a former scholarship player and me and I’m sure he is well aware of the recent status of the program. I did not think it was appropriate for me to share my views in that conversation. However, there was no inkling in that conversation that a 6th yr. was a part of HCBN’s contract.
Over the last several months I have spoken several times with a different BOT member, both in general about HC and in particular about the mens’ hoop program. He agreed with me that 12 losing seasons in the last 14 years does not meet HC’s historical standards. No mention was made of a 6th yr. on HCBN’s contract.
Long story short, I don’t have any definitive ideas on what ADKH and the BOT plan to do to rectify the mens’ basketball situation. At a minimum they are aware that there are issues which need to be addressed. Sooner rather than later, I hope.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 3, 2023 17:56:46 GMT -5
The Board is aware there are issues that need to be addressed? Them folks are right on top of things then.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 3, 2023 18:18:52 GMT -5
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Post by sader81 on Mar 3, 2023 19:14:23 GMT -5
If Nelson is going to be let go, I can see no reason why it hasn’t happened by now. Perhaps the title of this thread was prophetic.
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Post by cmo on Mar 3, 2023 20:57:26 GMT -5
I had to see if this was April fools
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Post by Crosser on Mar 3, 2023 21:52:29 GMT -5
The only restructuring of Nelson's contract that I want to see is a band of season ticket holders walk into Hughes' office, demand to see the contract, and tear it up leaving the scraps on the floor.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 3, 2023 22:59:07 GMT -5
The only restructuring of Nelson's contract that I want to see is a band of season ticket holders walk into Hughes' office, demand to see the contract, and tear it up leaving the scraps on the floor. The Sunshine Gang rides again.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 3, 2023 23:13:03 GMT -5
If Nelson is going to be let go, I can see no reason why it hasn’t happened by now. Perhaps the title of this thread was prophetic. The drift appears to possibly be when Kit lowered the boom, Coach noted his Covid extension and it was like pulling a rabbit out of a hat, catching Kit and TPTB flat footed. Could FADMB have given the extra year to BN with little fanfare (it was Covid after all, the world stopped for a while) and between transitioning Presidents, ADs, Interim ADs, Board Athletic chairs etc., nobody currently in office picked up on this legally binding amendment? Maybe this weekend everybody is scrambling to find an unsuspecting Peter to rob to pay Paul (Bret) an extra 350K to get this cluster---- done and go on to win the next press conference.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 3, 2023 23:19:36 GMT -5
If Nelson is going to be let go, I can see no reason why it hasn’t happened by now. Perhaps the title of this thread was prophetic. The drift appears to possibly be when Kit lowered the boom, Coach noted his Covid extension and it was like pulling a rabbit out of a hat, catching Kit and TPTB flat footed. Could FADMB have given the extra year to BN with little fanfare (it was Covid after all, the world stopped for a while) and between transitioning Presidents, ADs, Interim ADs, Board Athletic chairs etc., nobody currently in office picked up on this legally binding amendment? Maybe this weekend everybody is scrambling to find an unsuspecting Peter to rob to pay Paul (Bret) an extra 350K to get this cluster---- done and go on to win the next press conference. I find it really hard to believe Kit didn’t know exactly what was in Nelson’s contract. But, HC has surprised me before.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 3, 2023 23:28:01 GMT -5
Maybe Kit had a copy of the original contract and the amended one was filed with Human Resources or something. It's unlikely but why else would everything get held up by a covid extension if everyone knew about it already?
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