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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 11:32:33 GMT -5
Post by hcpride on Mar 11, 2023 11:32:33 GMT -5
Holy Cross basketball was still nationally (or at the very least, Northeast) relevant pre Big East. Holy Cross football is basically at the same level it was in 1979 today. These 2 sports at HC have changed greatly in terms of national competitiveness ovah the last 40 years, league changes etc. Would HC have been in the final four if there had been an FCS in 1979? No. So FB is miles ahead of 1979, imo. We're still playing BC and Army and a similar overall level of competition but we are winning now and have a shot at a national championship. Right now we're pretty similar to the Carter years (early 80's) when in comes to football (a couple of those Carter years we briefly hit #1ish in the polls but not every year). Not the same amount of stars (drafted and otherwise) but relative to the rest of AA/FCS pretty similar.
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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 11:35:16 GMT -5
Post by hcpride on Mar 11, 2023 11:35:16 GMT -5
Unless the student is from a Holy Cross family, there are not a lot of kids choosing HC over Villanova or BC anymore. Don't think anyone could argue against that. I think the accepted HC/PC kid still generally tends to go HC and the HC/FU kids tend to split - FU with an edge. As we know, these things do change over time and, obviously, these kids are not necessarily looking for an exclusively liberal arts school.
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Post by mm67 on Mar 11, 2023 11:40:52 GMT -5
HC does not have a national big time b-ball program nor has it had one in my time at HC. At best HC was a regional power from the late '50's onward. There were a few outlier years when HC was ranked in the top 25. The school does not aspire to big time sports nor should it. And, for this I am grateful.
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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 11:48:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Mar 11, 2023 11:48:25 GMT -5
Would HC have been in the final four if there had been an FCS in 1979? No. So FB is miles ahead of 1979, imo. We're still playing BC and Army and a similar overall level of competition but we are winning now and have a shot at a national championship. Right now we're pretty similar to the Carter years (early 80's) when in comes to football (a couple of those Carter years we briefly hit #1ish in the polls but not every year). Not the same amount of stars (drafted and otherwise) but relative to the rest of AA/FCS pretty similar. Yes and in MBB we are hiring a new coach like we did in FB in 1980 (Carter) so turnaround is possible. The double edge sword difference between BB and FB is in BB we have potential entree to the biggest stage in college sports (the Big Dance) but without the realistic chance of doing much post season while in FB we are in the lower profile FCS tournament but we just might go all the way. It's like the difference between appearing in the Main Arena at MSG or in the Hulu Theatre at MSG. It's nice to win even if it's before less people.
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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 12:14:06 GMT -5
Post by hcpride on Mar 11, 2023 12:14:06 GMT -5
Right now we're pretty similar to the Carter years (early 80's) when in comes to football (a couple of those Carter years we briefly hit #1ish in the polls but not every year). Not the same amount of stars (drafted and otherwise) but relative to the rest of AA/FCS pretty similar. Yes and in MBB we are hiring a new coach like we did in FB in 1980 (Carter) so turnaround is possible. The double edge sword difference between BB and FB is in BB we have potential entree to the biggest stage in college sports (the Big Dance) but without the realistic chance of doing much post season while in FB we are in the lower profile FCS tournament but we just might go all the way. It's like the difference between appearing in the Main Arena at MSG or in the Hulu Theatre at MSG. It's nice to win even if it's before less people. I'm being diplomatic so let me just say that Carter and Chesney did not inherit empty cupboards and did pretty well respectively their very first year with kids they did not recruit. The MBB coach will arrive with a very different situation IMHO. I wish him well.
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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 12:31:29 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Mar 11, 2023 12:31:29 GMT -5
My point in bringing up the disparity of where HC football and basketball are today versus where they were in 1978 (pre-Big East) is that unlike hitting the jackpot in hiring a guy like Chesney in football and bringing HC football to national prominence....the ceiling for HC hoop is only so high today compared to where we were in hoop in 1978.
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Post by Chu Chu on Mar 11, 2023 12:45:27 GMT -5
My point in bringing up the disparity of where HC football and basketball are today versus where they were in 1978 (pre-Big East) is that unlike hitting the jackpot in hiring a guy like Chesney in football and bringing HC football to national prominence....the ceiling for HC hoop is only so high today compared to where we were in hoop in 1978. I know that the above is a popular point of view on this board, but I do not agree. The fact is, we are at THE BOTTOM of the Patriot League! We are holding the league back.
A model for success that we could emulate already exists in the West Coast Conference (WCC). For years, Gonzaga has been the class of the league, ever since they emerged from the pack years ago. What many may not realize, however, is that the rest of the league is now also making huge strides, and the overall quality has steadily improved. Their excellence has challenged the other teams, who have also been greatly improving. This article from "The Athletic" is very interesting and documents the changes that have been taking place.
theathletic.com/4270498/2023/03/03/gonzaga-wcc-tournament-opponents/
We are not going to leave the Patriot League, as much as some might like us to do that, but we do have a path forward to excellence if we want to commit to it. I sense a willingness to move in that direction. I hope I am right! GoCross!
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Post by joutsHC77 on Mar 11, 2023 12:45:58 GMT -5
I hope the last week and a half was just Kit preparing a big offer for Tom Crean. Having watched Indiana basketball on the Big10 Network when Crean coached them, I was not impressed. In fact, all he seemed to do was pace up and down the sidelines repeatedly with a rolled up program in his hand. Even though he had success at Marquette, I consider him a mediocre coach. He also didn't seem to me to be a coach players gravitate toward, not a charismatic personality. JMO.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 11, 2023 12:55:59 GMT -5
Right now we're pretty similar to the Carter years (early 80's) when in comes to football (a couple of those Carter years we briefly hit #1ish in the polls but not every year). Not the same amount of stars (drafted and otherwise) but relative to the rest of AA/FCS pretty similar. Yes and in MBB we are hiring a new coach like we did in FB in 1980 (Carter) so turnaround is possible. The double edge sword difference between BB and FB is in BB we have potential entree to the biggest stage in college sports (the Big Dance) but without the realistic chance of doing much post season while in FB we are in the lower profile FCS tournament but we just might go all the way. It's like the difference between appearing in the Main Arena at MSG or in the Hulu Theatre at MSG. It's nice to win even if it's before less people. fewer
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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 15:39:44 GMT -5
Post by longsuffering on Mar 11, 2023 15:39:44 GMT -5
Villanova and BC were once "safety schools" for kids applying to HC.....then we decided to "not be in the entertainment biz." How's that worked out for us? admissionsight.com/hidden-ivies/We are a "hidden ivy" while BC is a "new ivy" according to this site.
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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 15:49:07 GMT -5
Post by newfieguy74 on Mar 11, 2023 15:49:07 GMT -5
Villanova and BC were once "safety schools" for kids applying to HC.....then we decided to "not be in the entertainment biz." How's that worked out for us? admissionsight.com/hidden-ivies/We are a "hidden ivy" while BC is a "new ivy" according to this site. According to this article "While the Ivy League and the Hidden Ivies place a solid emphasis on graduate programs, many of the universities on the Little Ives list only provide undergraduate degrees." I must have missed HC adding all those graduate programs.
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Fired
Mar 11, 2023 16:43:57 GMT -5
Post by timholycross on Mar 11, 2023 16:43:57 GMT -5
BC and several others (BBC, Skidmore) are listed as both hidden and new.
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 7:40:09 GMT -5
mm67 likes this
Post by trimster on Mar 12, 2023 7:40:09 GMT -5
My point in bringing up the disparity of where HC football and basketball are today versus where they were in 1978 (pre-Big East) is that unlike hitting the jackpot in hiring a guy like Chesney in football and bringing HC football to national prominence....the ceiling for HC hoop is only so high today compared to where we were in hoop in 1978. I know that the above is a popular point of view on this board, but I do not agree. The fact is, we are at THE BOTTOM of the Patriot League! We are holding the league back.
A model for success that we could emulate already exists in the West Coast Conference (WCC). For years, Gonzaga has been the class of the league, ever since they emerged from the pack years ago. What many may not realize, however, is that the rest of the league is now also making huge strides, and the overall quality has steadily improved. Their excellence has challenged the other teams, who have also been greatly improving. This article from "The Athletic" is very interesting and documents the changes that have been taking place.
theathletic.com/4270498/2023/03/03/gonzaga-wcc-tournament-opponents/
We are not going to leave the Patriot League, as much as some might like us to do that, but we do have a path forward to excellence if we want to commit to it. I sense a willingness to move in that direction. I hope I am right! GoCross!Nothing wrong with excelling in many things as long as they are done the right way.
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 8:49:47 GMT -5
Post by mm67 on Mar 12, 2023 8:49:47 GMT -5
"... the right way." That's the rub. Some would say tha right way is the way that wins. Others look to maintaining academic standards while having a winning program. And the balance between the two is the source of much disagreement.
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 9:42:03 GMT -5
Post by rgs318 on Mar 12, 2023 9:42:03 GMT -5
Hard to say HC is "at the bottom" when there are so often teams below us.
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 10:09:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Mar 12, 2023 10:09:25 GMT -5
Hard to say HC is "at the bottom" when there are so often teams below us. Bucknell was 5-13 to our 7-11 (we had a slurpee year) in the PL but 12-20 overall to our 10-22, (which, as it may have been mentioned once or twice on the board, includes two non-D-1 wins.)
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 10:56:55 GMT -5
mm67 likes this
Post by jkh67 on Mar 12, 2023 10:56:55 GMT -5
Hard to say HC is "at the bottom" when there are so often teams below us. We may not be literally "at the bottom" statistically (although close enough to it in fact), but there's no doubt we're "at the bottom" in the context of HC's basketball history, oft called "storied" in the press. And rightly so, say we!
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 11:28:34 GMT -5
via mobile
mm67 likes this
Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 12, 2023 11:28:34 GMT -5
Hard to say HC is "at the bottom" when there are so often teams below us. Nine of ten smells like the bottom to me. Lowest ranking team in the PL according to Pomeroy is also bottom.
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 11:35:58 GMT -5
mm67 likes this
Post by trimster on Mar 12, 2023 11:35:58 GMT -5
"... the right way." That's the rub. Some would say tha right way is the way that wins. Others look to maintaining academic standards while having a winning program. And the balance between the two is the source of much disagreement. I think if HC were a player hoops wise on the national stage, the overwhelming majority of HC alums would want it done while maintaining our academic standards. As much as I love to follow HC hoops, put me squarely in that category.
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 11:36:22 GMT -5
Post by rgs318 on Mar 12, 2023 11:36:22 GMT -5
"Near" the bottom is not, by that statement "the bottom." IMHO, things are bad enough without errors made to exaggerate a point, no?
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Fired
Mar 12, 2023 11:36:47 GMT -5
Post by trimster on Mar 12, 2023 11:36:47 GMT -5
Hard to say HC is "at the bottom" when there are so often teams below us. There aren't many below HC right now in D1.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 12, 2023 11:39:22 GMT -5
If there are any, HC is not "at the bottom." Glad you agree.
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Post by mm67 on Mar 12, 2023 15:23:19 GMT -5
Language can be very tricky. Bottom does not necessarily mean metaphysically the very worst by any mature understanding of the usage. We can all agree HC basketball has been lousy and certainly not at the level where one would expect, no? Plan to meet with classmates at a Sweet Sixteen matchup with HC and another beleaguered opponent/victim. "March on as..."
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