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Post by HC92 on May 26, 2023 16:40:35 GMT -5
DCU graduations must end.
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Post by newfieguy74 on May 26, 2023 16:47:55 GMT -5
"If virtually every other college - particularly liberal arts Colleges the size of Holy Cross - can hold their commencement on campus rain or shine, we can find a way. Doesn’t have to be at Fitton. Seating for guests doesn’t have to be in the stands."
I was at Vanderbilt's graduation a few weeks ago. The plan was to have it outside on campus but the day before, with a forecast of rain, it was switched to the Bridgestone Arena.
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Post by CHC8485 on May 26, 2023 20:10:00 GMT -5
Let's see ... Holy Cross has an outdoor football field and an indoor football field, basketball gym and a hockey rink. How can we ever make both an outdoor and contingent indoor graduation work on campus? Doesn't take a lot of imagination.
And don't tell me parking is a problem. We handled parking for 17,000+ against Fordham for a football game, we can handle parking for 10K and graduation.
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 26, 2023 21:48:45 GMT -5
Interesting feature with today’s commencement ceremony, as each graduate received their diploma from PVR, their name and major(s) was displayed on the video board in the DCU as well as part of the You Tube channel available for remote viewing. At one point their was well over 400 viewing on the channel. I recall only one Classics degree recipient, maybe there were more, but I will review the ceremony again to determine. Also, I noticed several students received a neuroscience degree, as well as several anthropology degree recipients.
It was nice to be able to view all of the major ceremonies this week. Of note, student athletes such as Frederick Fitzgerald Gates, Peter Oliver, Addisyn Cross, Mary Edmonds, who we have followed throughout their HC careers, are now alums. Congratulations to them and to the entire class of 2023.
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Post by sader1970 on May 27, 2023 5:08:48 GMT -5
What struck me was the high percentage of graduates with honors: cum laude, magna cum laude and summa cum laude.
I will leave it to others to debate whether this is a manifestation of smarter students or the “grade inflation” claim. As one can also see on the previously posted new student tour video, many current students are double majors which wasn’t a thing years ago. Just part of the changes at Holy Cross. It strikes me as current students are less encumbered by required courses.
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Post by alum on May 27, 2023 5:39:30 GMT -5
It looked like Peter Welch made sure to include all of the important things: January 6, guns, climate change, DEI, protecting democracy, and systemic racism. Isn’t it great when the prominent alum who is honored has a message consistent with the mission of the college and the Jesuits, the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth, and common decency?
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Post by alum on May 27, 2023 5:48:58 GMT -5
Let's see ... Holy Cross has an outdoor football field and an indoor football field, basketball gym and a hockey rink. How can we ever make both an outdoor and contingent indoor graduation work on campus? Doesn't take a lot of imagination. And don't tell me parking is a problem. We handled parking for 17,000+ against Fordham for a football game, we can handle parking for 10K and graduation. Is it possible that they have concerns that Fitton is not accessible to the disabled? (Hart certainly is). If so, can’t they get creative with temporary structures of some variety?
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Post by newfieguy74 on May 27, 2023 5:54:11 GMT -5
What struck me was the high percentage of graduates with honors: cum laude, magna cum laude and summa cum laude. I will leave it to others to debate whether this is a manifestation of smarter students or the “grade inflation” claim. As one can also see on the previously posted new student tour video, many current students are double majors which wasn’t a thing years ago. Just part of the changes at Holy Cross. It strikes me as current students are less encumbered by required courses. You'll think this is funny as I graduated in 1974, but I didn't have any required courses at HC. I believe I just needed to have a certain number of courses in my major but that was it.
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Post by alum on May 27, 2023 6:03:40 GMT -5
What struck me was the high percentage of graduates with honors: cum laude, magna cum laude and summa cum laude. I will leave it to others to debate whether this is a manifestation of smarter students or the “grade inflation” claim. As one can also see on the previously posted new student tour video, many current students are double majors which wasn’t a thing years ago. Just part of the changes at Holy Cross. It strikes me as current students are less encumbered by required courses. You'll think this is funny as I graduated in 1974, but I didn't have any required courses at HC. I believe I just needed to have a certain number of courses in my major but that was it. It was the same in early 80s. I only had to take the 10 courses for my major. There were very few people who double majored although there were certainly many who completed the pre med requirements along with their majors—often in non science fields.
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Post by hcpride on May 27, 2023 7:42:33 GMT -5
What struck me was the high percentage of graduates with honors: cum laude, magna cum laude and summa cum laude. I will leave it to others to debate whether this is a manifestation of smarter students or the “grade inflation” claim. As one can also see on the previously posted new student tour video, many current students are double majors which wasn’t a thing years ago. Just part of the changes at Holy Cross. It strikes me as current students are less encumbered by required courses. The number of students on the Patriot League Academic Honor Roll is enormous at this point ( 124 [!] Holy Cross student athletes in the fall season alone), so it doesn’t surprise me to see an enormous number of Holy Cross students graduate with honors. One imagines the word ‘honors’ diminishes at a certain point with a certain percentage. We've had a similar question in our high school faculty lounge: "If essentially every student is in the National Honor Society and 90% of students are on the Honor Roll, does that mean we have a super duper crop of students versus the group thirty years ago or is something else going on?"
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 27, 2023 8:22:03 GMT -5
It is something else going on
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Post by newfieguy74 on May 27, 2023 8:31:31 GMT -5
I was speaking with a professor at Vanderbilt School of Medicine a few weeks ago and he said his students are very offended at the idea of getting a grade as "low" as a B+. He tries to explain that B+ is a very good grade but they don't buy it. I've heard the same thing from a friend who teaches at Wellesley College. High achievers expect high grades; you might even say they feel entitled to them.
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Post by HC92 on May 27, 2023 8:47:05 GMT -5
My son reports that it is not particularly hard to get good grades at HC in 2023. And, yes, some obscenely high percentage of his high school class was in NHS. It was at the point where you were embarrassed for the kids who didn’t get it because everyone knew who they were on the much shorter list.
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Post by cross1965 on May 27, 2023 10:13:17 GMT -5
I thought that this type of subject had been suspended on Crossports. This is no longer about commencement, but political in nature. Find another forum.
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Post by rgs318 on May 27, 2023 11:01:59 GMT -5
I am afraid I was turned away from the NHS by two things (1) our high school NHS advisor quit when a parent accosted him in the supermarket ranting because her child not getting in (and she was not the first or only parent to do so) and (2) our superintendent was told that being arrested and convicted of a crime would not, by itself, be enough to disqualify one from the National "Honor" Society. I applaud those who obtain that honor, but I do not participate in the selection process and have not for many years now.
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Post by sader1970 on May 27, 2023 14:19:03 GMT -5
Grade inflation? Smarter students? Perhaps a bit of both considering the 1970 Class was all male and essentially eliminated at least half of the population. I just compared the graduation programs of the Class of 1970 vs. the Class of 2023 based on the respective graduation programs. In 1970, we had 3 students who received masters degrees, which I've eliminated from the discussion. Did this all manually so if anyone wants to go through and check my math, have at it. Category # 2023 1970Summa 49 9 Magna 113 24 Cum Laude 185 45 No Honors 409 467 Total 756 545 Category % 2023 1970Summa 6.48% 1.68% Magna 14.95% 4.40% Cum Laude 24.47% 8.26% No Honors 54.10% 85.69% I don't think Holy Cross is unique in this regard of having almost half its graduates doing so with honors. My own theory is that there are a combination of factors. The first is the potential student base is at least doubled with women now in the mix so Holy Cross can be a bit more picky in selecting its students. I honestly believe that a case can be made for grade inflation over the decades. So, the average Crusader graduate today may be smarter but not THAT much smarter! Really, just looking to generate some discussion.
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Post by longsuffering on May 28, 2023 0:04:42 GMT -5
HC has grown in size, but not transformationally (oops, that may not be a legitimate word). Still better to be 40% or so larger than some colleges that are either smaller or gone since 1970.
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Post by HC92 on May 28, 2023 5:39:14 GMT -5
Grade inflation? Smarter students? Perhaps a bit of both considering the 1970 Class was all male and essentially eliminated at least half of the population. I just compared the graduation programs of the Class of 1970 vs. the Class of 2023 based on the respective graduation programs. In 1970, we had 3 students who received masters degrees, which I've eliminated from the discussion. Did this all manually so if anyone wants to go through and check my math, have at it. Category # 2023 1970Summa 49 9 Magna 113 24 Cum Laude 185 45 No Honors 409 467 Total 756 545 Category % 2023 1970Summa 6.48% 1.68% Magna 14.95% 4.40% Cum Laude 24.47% 8.26% No Honors 54.10% 85.69% I don't think Holy Cross is unique in this regard of having almost half its graduates doing so with honors. My own theory is that there are a combination of factors. The first is the potential student base is at least doubled with women now in the mix so Holy Cross can be a bit more picky in selecting its students. I honestly believe that a case can be made for grade inflation over the decades. So, the average Crusader graduate today may be smarter but not THAT much smarter! Really, just looking to generate some discussion. I don’t think HC students today are smarter than they were in 1988-92. I think education overall has been dumbed way down.
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Post by sader1970 on May 28, 2023 6:13:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought the same thing that a Crusader education got dumbed down from '66-'70 to '88-'92 since you only had to take 4 courses a semester and didn't have to take quite as rigorous a core course load. I kid. I am sure my father ('42) thought we had it easy as he took, among other things, Spanish, Latin and Greek (!). And, I'm sure the older Purple Knights here, like Phreek, thought we had a "gut" course load. HC was co-ed when you went, so maybe you did have smarter kids, on average, since half the U.S. population was excluded from the College when I was there. You also, pretty much had to be Catholic which seems to be no longer expected. Just to muddy the waters, in the "good old days," most professors were Jesuits and not sure how many had terminal degrees in their field at the time (I'll let Phreek research that ), so the professors now might be more "learned" but I know we had our share of Harvard doctorates in the 60s. My unscientific impression is in my dealings with current students and recent alums that they are every bit as smart, smarter maybe, than in my day. As to the actual coursework, haven't a clue. As to being dumbed down, there's no question there are many more and varied courses offered.
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Post by hchoops on May 28, 2023 6:31:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought the same thing that a Crusader education got dumbed down from '66-'70 to '88-'92 since you only had to take 4 courses a semester and didn't have to take quite as rigorous a core course load. I kid. I am sure my father ('42) thought we had it easy as he took, among other things, Spanish, Latin and Greek (!). From ‘63-‘67 I took German, Latin and Greek, not majoring in any.
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Post by newfieguy74 on May 28, 2023 7:49:23 GMT -5
"I don’t think HC students today are smarter than they were in 1988-92. I think education overall has been dumbed way down."
I don't think this is true. My courses at HC were challenging, but I hear anecdotally (and reliably I think) that the courses at HC are currently very challenging as well, maybe even more so.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 28, 2023 8:23:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought the same thing that a Crusader education got dumbed down from '66-'70 to '88-'92 since you only had to take 4 courses a semester and didn't have to take quite as rigorous a core course load. I kid. I am sure my father ('42) thought we had it easy as he took, among other things, Spanish, Latin and Greek (!). And, I'm sure the older Purple Knights here, like Phreek, thought we had a "gut" course load. HC was co-ed when you went, so maybe you did have smarter kids, on average, since half the U.S. population was excluded from the College when I was there. You also, pretty much had to be Catholic which seems to be no longer expected. Just to muddy the waters, in the "good old days," most professors were Jesuits and not sure how many had terminal degrees in their field at the time (I'll let Phreek research that ), so the professors now might be more "learned" but I know we had our share of Harvard doctorates in the 60s. My unscientific impression is in my dealings with current students and recent alums that they are every bit as smart, smarter maybe, than in my day. As to the actual coursework, haven't a clue. As to being dumbed down, there's no question there are many more and varied courses offered. Maybe I should put on my Napoleonic Veille Garde uniform and opine at length. Way way back, students matriculating from Catholic high schools who would have been admitted to schools like HYP didn't apply, and HC became a default school for high academic achievers. As Fauci has recurringly noted, he wanted to go to Harvard, but Regis HS wouldn't let him. And he then pairs that with the observation that HC was ranked #2 or #3 in the United States for pre-med, and that ranking was across all Division I schools. IIRC, Catholic high schools ended restrictions on where graduates could apply at about the same time that HC undertook a major revision to the curriculum and began admitting women. A major sea change. (I graduated with 15? semester hours in philosophy, and it wasn't even a minor.) I think it is difficult to compare academic achievement, i.e., honors, during the era of the old curriculum and today's curriculum, in part because a subset of students who matriculated at HC during the 'old' era now apply and matriculate elsewhere. And this subset would likely dominate the honors list if they matriculated at HC today.
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Post by sader1970 on May 28, 2023 9:40:03 GMT -5
I believe there isn't even an official pre-med program at Holy Cross anymore. Phreek is correct about the outstanding pre-med program as I recall seeing newspaper clips, probably posted in the "new" Hogan building that HC was, at worst. ranked #3 but think #2 and some years, #1 in pre-med. Don't ask me how they judged that but guessing by the percent of pre-meds who actually got admitted to a med school.
With women, the College seems to have gone out of its way to expand the variety of courses presumably to attract them.
I've posted before and not being modest, I am not at all sure I would be able to get into Holy Cross nowadays. In part because admissions looks beyond the high school transcript and, as we know, beyond the SATs scores being optional.
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Post by HCFC45 on May 28, 2023 10:05:47 GMT -5
Grade inflation? Smarter students? Perhaps a bit of both considering the 1970 Class was all male and essentially eliminated at least half of the population. I just compared the graduation programs of the Class of 1970 vs. the Class of 2023 based on the respective graduation programs. In 1970, we had 3 students who received masters degrees, which I've eliminated from the discussion. Did this all manually so if anyone wants to go through and check my math, have at it. Category # 2023 1970Summa 49 9 Magna 113 24 Cum Laude 185 45 No Honors 409 467 Total 756 545 Category % 2023 1970Summa 6.48% 1.68% 1.65%Magna 14.95% 4.40% Cum Laude 24.47% 8.26% No Honors 54.10% 85.69% I don't think Holy Cross is unique in this regard of having almost half its graduates doing so with honors. My own theory is that there are a combination of factors. The first is the potential student base is at least doubled with women now in the mix so Holy Cross can be a bit more picky in selecting its students. I honestly believe that a case can be made for grade inflation over the decades. So, the average Crusader graduate today may be smarter but not THAT much smarter! Really, just looking to generate some discussion. FIXED IT FOR YA!!!
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Post by sader1970 on May 28, 2023 10:51:06 GMT -5
Thanks! Not a math error, a typo.
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