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Post by purplehaze on Apr 19, 2023 10:22:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 19, 2023 10:42:29 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 19, 2023 11:47:04 GMT -5
The last time Army went away from the wishbone under Todd Berry, they had their worst couple of seasons in program history.
Including a 2002 season opening loss to Holy Cross.
What Monken is installing is of course just a modification of the triple option as opposed to when Berry tried to implement a pro style offense from 2002-2004.
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Post by gks on Apr 19, 2023 11:48:27 GMT -5
Unpopular take....
When run properly the wishbone/option offense is a work of art.
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Post by football44 on Apr 19, 2023 12:14:46 GMT -5
Great news!! Less preparation for the boys. Playing defense against the conventional offenses for a whole season then having to get ready for a wishbone is tough. I really love our chances now.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 19, 2023 12:29:00 GMT -5
IMO, Army's 'problem' this year is that the quarterbacks were recruited based on their perceived ability at running a certain offense. Why would Army recruit a QB who was a dropback passer in high school? Seems to me the learning curve this year will be steep for the Army offense.
Interesting that Army's new OC is from a Division II program, and before that, a junior college program.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 19, 2023 12:45:40 GMT -5
I guess it is not only some posters on Crossports who see a benefit in bringing up a coach/coordinator from a "lower level" program.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 19, 2023 13:08:30 GMT -5
I guess it is not only some posters on Crossports who see a benefit in bringing up a coach/coordinator from a "lower level" program. Or it might be that established Division I OC's didn't warm to the task of introducing a fundamental shift in the type offense being run.
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Post by purplehaze on Apr 19, 2023 13:10:53 GMT -5
In other AWP news their recruiting list of players in the incoming class numbers 110 - that's not a misprint !
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 19, 2023 13:38:34 GMT -5
Can you provide the AWP list of incoming players?
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Post by midwestsader05 on Apr 19, 2023 13:58:44 GMT -5
I suspect we will still see a steady dose of the run but in QB Power, read-option and RPO from the gun. Their O will still be predicated on ball control and winning time of possession. Also look for lots of motion and misdirection.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Apr 19, 2023 15:58:49 GMT -5
Monken is from my town; don’t underestimate Army. This game will be a great challenge. Go Cross!
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Post by newadvisor on Apr 19, 2023 17:33:23 GMT -5
Changing from a power run to a more typical RPO, triple option out of the gun is going to be tough for O line. I'm sure with the endless number of players on the roster, Army/Navy will both be able to adapt quickly..
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 20, 2023 0:29:36 GMT -5
Unpopular take.... When run properly the wishbone/option offense is a work of art. I agree, it's fun to watch. We've got the "Human Option" Matt Sluka. Now you see him, now you don't, and it is indeed a work of art when he gets the ball. By his fourth season I imagine all of the ten other offensive players are part of the choreography after the ball is hiked. They may not all know exactly what Sluka will do in each play, but they know more than the defense knows so a team that hasn't played HC in the last three years has a challenge preparing for him.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 20, 2023 6:58:19 GMT -5
Unpopular take.... When run properly the wishbone/option offense is a work of art. I agree, it's fun to watch. We've got the "Human Option" Matt Sluka. Now you see him, now you don't, and it is indeed a work of art when he gets the ball. By his fourth season I imagine all of the ten other offensive players are part of the choreography after the ball is hiked. They may not all know exactly what Sluka will do in each play, but they know more than the defense knows so a team that hasn't played HC in the last three years has a challenge preparing for him. Sluka's come a long way from spring 2021, when if his first read wasn't open, he would just put his head down and play 1 on 11. And he was effective then. Leaps and bounds better now though.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 20, 2023 8:32:19 GMT -5
The AWP football team is always in great shape. Football ultimately is a game of execution. The coaches will tweak the RPO offense to suit Army football. Army hits hard & will be relentless in their blocking & tackling. They will be "up" for HC. They have a score to settle. HC will be "up" too. Should be a fun game, I hope.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 20, 2023 9:03:26 GMT -5
The AWP football team is always in great shape. Football ultimately is a game of execution. The coaches will tweak the RPO offense to suit Army football. Army hits hard & will be relentless in their blocking & tackling. They will be "up" for HC. They have a score to settle. HC will be "up" too. Should be a fun game, I hope. Not sure what "score they have to settle". But otherwise absolutely they'll be ready to go this season with the tweaked offense. This won't be Todd Berry-era 2.0 by any means for the Cadet offense.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 20, 2023 9:13:59 GMT -5
Ancient History: HC defeated AWP a while back. I know for a fact many of their alums were angry, furious that they lost to HC, a small FCS school. In their view any loss to HC was a humiliation. They will be especially up for HC.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 20, 2023 9:22:06 GMT -5
Ancient History: HC defeated AWP a while back. I know for a fact many of their alums were angry, furious that they lost to HC, a small FCS school. In their view any loss to HC was a humiliation. They will be especially up for HC. Those who are playing in the game this coming fall either were not yet born or babies. No one on the Army coaching staff was working for Army in 2002. Army will certainly be ready to go and Monken will let them know Holy Cross isn't a run-of-the-mill FCS club, but what happened 20 years ago has 0.0 bearing on the game this November.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 20, 2023 9:32:06 GMT -5
The cadets and their supporters may have long memories, but I have to agree that a loss from over two decades ago will not have any particular meaning for our game with them next season. A win over AWP would be a very strong credential when seeds are determined at that time, but the possibility of that is still months away.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 20, 2023 14:33:21 GMT -5
Ancient History: HC defeated AWP a while back. I know for a fact many of their alums were angry, furious that they lost to HC, a small FCS school. In their view any loss to HC was a humiliation. They will be especially up for HC. Those who are playing in the game this coming fall either were not yet born or babies. No one on the Army coaching staff was working for Army in 2002. Army will certainly be ready to go and Monken will let them know Holy Cross isn't a run-of-the-mill FCS club, but what happened 20 years ago has 0.0 bearing on the game this November. Army was beaten quite a bit over 2002 and 2003. One total win in two years. And double annihilations at the hands of their rival. I went to army - navy in 2002 and it was brutal. That being said l’d like to play them early while they’re working the kinks out of a new system…by the time we play I’m thinking they’ll have some sort of rhythm. On the other hand and as others have noted, they don’t necessarily recruit the arms at QB needed to win in a more conventional system. We may very well need a W to grab a seed (not to get ahead of myself) as our FCS schedule may be comparatively weak (again).
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 21, 2023 0:00:46 GMT -5
Those who are playing in the game this coming fall either were not yet born or babies. No one on the Army coaching staff was working for Army in 2002. Army will certainly be ready to go and Monken will let them know Holy Cross isn't a run-of-the-mill FCS club, but what happened 20 years ago has 0.0 bearing on the game this November. Army was beaten quite a bit over 2002 and 2003. One total win in two years. And double annihilations at the hands of their rival. I went to army - navy in 2002 and it was brutal. That being said l’d like to play them early while they’re working the kinks out of a new system…by the time we play I’m thinking they’ll have some sort of rhythm. On the other hand and as others have noted, they don’t necessarily recruit the arms at QB needed to win in a more conventional system. We may very well need a W to grab a seed (not to get ahead of myself) as our FCS schedule may be comparatively weak (again). Another factor...Army may very well be on the cusp of bowl eligibility the weekend we play them. Safe to say, a Monken-coached team won't be taking any prisoners if they enter our Veterans' Day showdown with either 4 or 5 wins. With regards to the 2002 Army team, they were woefully bad. I have followed Army football since 1995, attending multiple games per year at WP minus the time I was at HC. To put in perspective how awful the 2002 Army team was under Todd Berry, consider this: that Army team lost to 1-11 Rutgers 44-0. That horrendous Rutgers team lost to 1-11 Buffalo. That Buffalo team lost to Lehigh. Also, Army in 2002 was the only FBS team ever to lose to a Patriot League team that did not make the FCS Playoffs, as HC finished 4-8 that year. To further put how bad that team was in perspective, the 2003 Army team was MUCH IMPROVED over the 2002 squad but still managed to become the first (and maybe only) college football team EVER to finish a season 0-13.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 21, 2023 8:08:54 GMT -5
I'm getting the sense that the 2002 Army team was not really good......
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 21, 2023 8:13:57 GMT -5
I think Army turned the ball over four or five times against us on that beautiful September afternoon. Conversely, we protected the ball.
Ball security is job security.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 21, 2023 8:38:11 GMT -5
I'm getting the sense that the 2002 Army team was not really good...... First game of the season as I recall and we didn't know that at the time. I was there as I've been for all HC games at West Point since the 1960's except on my wedding day (I do put a few things ahead of Crusader sports . . . . but not much)and SOV's comment is correct. Killed them on turnover margin. Dave Paulsen made an interesting comment yesterday that I believe I've already heard him say before, paraphrasing here, "you lose more games than you win" in the context of turnovers and other mistakes that cost you a game. Negatives beating you more than positives winning for you. I know I'm digressing from football but expect we'll see DP who has mentioned repeatedly the need to dive and get loose balls (Oh, how Austin Butler would be DP's guy!), I think he'll be praising players for deflections as well as steals, like Ralph.
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