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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 28, 2016 12:00:16 GMT -5
I attended that tourney. Did you? What you don't know is the academic disaster last year was for our student athletes. Lose round 1 go home, little class time lost. I think Hershey pa would be a good site. This "academic disaster" you speak of was a once in a generation occurrence. You realize that, right? The 9 seed in the PL is not going to advance to the championship, and thus play 4 road games, very often.
I do think it would be cool to have the PL tournament at a neutral site if there was a central location that would be guaranteed draw (there isn't). However, I like the home site system because it does make the regular season mean something while also helping to ensure that the best team represent the league in the NCAA tournament, greatening the league's odds of an upset or at least a respectable performance in the round of 64. Obviously, we threw a wrench in this last year.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 28, 2016 12:03:28 GMT -5
I attended that tourney. Did you? What you don't know is the academic disaster last year was for our student athletes. Lose round 1 go home, little class time lost. I think Hershey pa would be a good site. This "academic disaster" you speak of was a once in a generation occurrence. You realize that, right? The 9 seed in the PL is not going to advance to the championship, and thus play 4 road games, very often. Scheduling is atrocious from day 1 until the Dance We should schedule a Friday Sunday with Loyola and AU among my other suggestions.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 28, 2016 12:03:53 GMT -5
Doing online sessions within a course isn't the same as taking an on-line course. I did that regularly with my grad students. It is easy to set up. Many profs have files of videotaped classes for just such purposes. Of course, if the bus does not provide Wi-Fi that does complicate things.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 28, 2016 12:07:19 GMT -5
This "academic disaster" you speak of was a once in a generation occurrence. You realize that, right? The 9 seed in the PL is not going to advance to the championship, and thus play 4 road games, very often. Scheduling is atrocious from day 1 until the Dance We should schedule a Friday Sunday with Loyola and AU among my other suggestions. Travel partners could potentially work the way the PL is set up now (Fri-Sun like the Ivy)
HC-BU Army-Colgate Navy-Loyola Bucknell-AU LU-LC
I'm guessing TV contracts would get in the way of this?
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 28, 2016 12:12:06 GMT -5
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Missing classes and the interactions with the professors is a much bigger concern, as well as fatigue.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 28, 2016 12:14:01 GMT -5
PP- So you are implying that HC is not now competitive with MAAC schools. Correct? No such inference should be drawn from what I wrote. Canisius, 25th and 75th percentiles SAT Verbal 470 / 580 SAT Math 480 / 600
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 28, 2016 12:15:31 GMT -5
As I've noted in the past, there is and has been for quite a while a standing offer from the MAAC to HC. HC has shot it down.
This being said, I myself would much rather see the likes of Manhattan and Iona as regular opponents at the Hart than any PL opponent.
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Post by sarasota on Dec 28, 2016 13:11:24 GMT -5
PP- You said HC would need to lower its academics in order to be competitive. Inasmuch as HC has not lowered its academics, it follows that HC is not now competitive. A simple Aristotelian Syllogism, yes?
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Post by bikeman on Dec 28, 2016 13:16:26 GMT -5
Saying HC has to lower academics to be competitive any where is a load of crap.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 28, 2016 14:30:08 GMT -5
PP- You said HC would need to lower its academics in order to be competitive. Inasmuch as HC has not lowered its academics, it follows that HC is not now competitive. A simple Aristotelian Syllogism, yes? If the MAAC schools recruit and enroll student athletes whose scores would be below the floor for the AI in the PL, why would HC continue to recruit only those students whose AI score was above the PL floor even though HC was now playing in the MAAC? Have the flagellants been resurrected on Mt. St. James? The AI floor for the Ivies is 176, for the PL its 168. For the typical American college student, its supposedly around 150. For student athletes in the many conferences that do not have the AI, the average AI score, IIRC, is around 140. The AI range is 60-240. But an AI of 140 would be better than the old days. digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1189&context=mslj
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Post by Ray on Dec 28, 2016 16:29:22 GMT -5
To those complaining about the academic impact of last year's run.... you do realize that only the first two PL games came while class was in session, right? The PL semis and finals were played during spring break week. Then we hit the road for the NCAAs after spring break, but I don't think any of you are actually suggesting that participating in the Big Dance was too disruptive to class time, right? In terms of the PL tourney aspect of the run, the travel itself was terrible for sure, but it wasn't a nine-day disruption to class time.
We've covered the MAAC cons enough times over the years:
- it's not a foregone conclusion that the PL would even let us stay in the league for football. - the travel for basketball is at best equivalent if not worse than the PL - outside of Siena, the MAAC draws no better than the PL - in a bigger league, it's necessarily going to be tougher to get into the NCAAs via auto-bid. And the MAAC is not a multi-bid league, so there's no advantage there. - the combined differences in admissions standards and endowments do point to some differing resource issues. HC would not be as equally-footed in the MAAC as they are in the PL.
HC has clearly indicated, by the fact that they have stuck with the PL through multiple president/board/AD administrations over nearly 30 years now, that the PL is where they want to be, at least relative to the MAAC. Clearly, they could have explored this move a few times over the years, and have not. Therefore, I can conclude with some certainty that It. Is. Not Happening. So let it go.
Unless someone has new information, I think this ground has all been covered.
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Post by HC1843 on Dec 28, 2016 16:34:57 GMT -5
To those complaining about the academic impact of last year's run.... you do realize that only the first two PL games came while class was in session, right? The PL semis and finals were played during spring break week. Then we hit the road for the NCAAs after spring break, but I don't think any of you are actually suggesting that participating in the Big Dance was too disruptive to class time, right? In terms of the PL tourney aspect of the run, the travel itself was terrible for sure, but it wasn't a nine-day disruption to class time. We've covered the MAAC cons enough times over the years: - it's not a foregone conclusion that the PL would even let us stay in the league for football. - the travel for basketball is at best equivalent if not worse than the PL - outside of Siena, the MAAC draws no better than the PL - in a bigger league, it's necessarily going to be tougher to get into the NCAAs via auto-bid. And the MAAC is not a multi-bid league, so there's no advantage there. - the combined differences in admissions standards and endowments do point to some differing resource issues. HC would not be as equally-footed in the MAAC as they are in the PL. HC has clearly indicated, by the fact that they have stuck with the PL through multiple president/board/AD administrations over nearly 30 years now, that the PL is where they want to be, at least relative to the MAAC. Clearly, they could have explored this move a few times over the years, and have not. Therefore, I can conclude with some certainty that It. Is. Not Happening. So let it go. Unless someone has new information, I think this ground has all been covered. There is only ONE poster here who uderstands the academic strain last year caused our poor suffering student athletes and that poster is not you. Please leave the analytics to people who just get it. Ok? Cheers.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 28, 2016 16:47:43 GMT -5
We've covered the MAAC cons enough times over the years: - it's not a foregone conclusion that the PL would even let us stay in the league for football. - the travel for basketball is at best equivalent if not worse than the PL - outside of Siena, the MAAC draws no better than the PL - in a bigger league, it's necessarily going to be tougher to get into the NCAAs via auto-bid. And the MAAC is not a multi-bid league, so there's no advantage there. - the combined differences in admissions standards and endowments do point to some differing resource issues. HC would not be as equally-footed in the MAAC as they are in the PL. It IS a foregone conclusion that the PL would no longer sponsor football if HC left since one of the bylaws states that there must be five permanent football members to maintain a conference. In actuality, this means Sacred Heart would promptly be added as a full sports member to replace us.
Siena, Fairfield and Iona would all be pretty good draws from the MAAC. The problem is that everyone forgets that joining the MAAC also means joining the likes of Marist, St. Peter's, Rider, Quinnipiac and Canisius. Yawn, yawn, YAWN and YAWNNNNN.
We would be able to compete just fine without comprising our academic standards. That being said, I'll take the PL as a whole over the MAAC.
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Post by sarasota on Dec 28, 2016 17:02:34 GMT -5
nycrusader2010- Congratulations for recognizing that HC would compete in the MAAC "just fine without compromising our academic standards." Also, you forgot to include Monmouth in your list of MAAC schools. Monmouth would be quite competitive with HC in basketball as well as mens soccer, which they are emphasizing. Of course, it goes without saying that for the most part the MAAC schools' "minor" sports would be competitive and more against HC. Also, the PL would not kick out HC football as HC's fball program is stronger than that of any likely PL replacement school. Also, to split conferences would mean more work for HC's AD, which is a political negative. Finally, I stopped a long time ago crediting arguments that because things have been done a certain way for 30 years they can never change. Status Quos must always be continuously challenged. That's what Continuous Improvement means.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 28, 2016 17:36:45 GMT -5
Well, my goodness, TQM drifting into a thread on conference membership. _______________________________ The people who count are those who are donating to the new and expanded athletic facilities on College Hill, and I expect they have assurances from TPTB that their monies are not going to a program that is moving to the MAAC.
As for the whimsical ruminations of alums that contribute only to their high school, I expect such fall only on deaf ears.
From HC's perspective, there are no LACs in the MAAC, and HC long ago chose to remain a LAC. Thus it follows the adage of 'birds of a feather, flock together'.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 28, 2016 17:59:06 GMT -5
What's stopping HC from annually playing 4-5 NY/NJ schools every year? Along with a selection of BC-PC-UMass-URI-UConn and a couple of national guarantee games, you'd have a schedule (even within the confines of the MD/DC/PA/NY/Mass League) that would be on a par of those schedules from back in the "good old days".
As for the PL tourney, I would have been happy with sticking with the short lived experiment of splitting it up into two pods (home courts of the top 2 seeds). To me its the best compromise: the regular season still means something, and with 2 games played at the same location on the same day, it gives the fans somewhat of a traditional post season tourney environment.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 28, 2016 18:02:48 GMT -5
What's wrong with the House That Wilt Built?
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Post by sarasota on Dec 28, 2016 19:58:25 GMT -5
PP- You must be kidding me. MAAC has more of a claim to be LACs than does the PL.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 29, 2016 6:41:08 GMT -5
PP- You must be kidding me. MAAC has more of a claim to be LACs than does the PL. Iz dat so? The three Catholic members of the MAAC closest to/in NYC. Iona (of which you should be familiar) Iona does not publish a Common Data Set, so I cannot tell the number of graduates by major. Iona does have the Hogan School of Business. And among its A&S majors are Criminal Justice, Social Work, Audiology and Speech Pathology, Mass Communications SAT Scores: 25th - 75th percentile for Iona 910-1110 St. Peter'sSt. Peter's also does not publish a CDS, so as a proxy for examining how much of the curriculum might be considered liberal arts, this: Areas of study P's through S's at St. Peter'sPharmacy Philosophy Photography Physical Therapy Physician Assistant Physics Political Science Pre-Professional Health-Related Psychology Public Administration Public Policy Radiography Social Justice Sociology Sports Management Spanish Strategic Communication SAT scores, 25th-75th percentile for St. Peter's 910-1090 Manhattan CollegeFrom Manhattan's Common Data Set for 2013-14 Degree Majors, by percentageEngineering 26 percent Business Marketing 18 percent Education 13 percent Interdisciplinary studies 9 percent Communication Journalism 7 percent Psychology 7 percent Social Sciences 6 percent English 3 percent Biological sciences 1 percent History 1 percent Physical Sciences 1 percent (several other one percents excluded) n = 685 bachelor's degrees SAT score 25th-75th percentile, Manhattan College 970 - 1190 Holy CrossDegree Majors, by percentageSocial Sciences 33 percent Psychology 13 percent Physical Sciences 9 percent Foreign Languages 9 percent English 7 percent History 7 percent Mathematics 6 percent Remaining majors are 5 percent or less N = 699 (class of 2016) SAT score 25th-75th percentile, Holy Cross 1220 - 1370
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Post by sarasota on Dec 29, 2016 6:48:22 GMT -5
PP- Which are the purely LACs in the PL besides HC?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 29, 2016 7:16:26 GMT -5
PP- Which are the purely LACs in the PL besides HC? Lafayette, Colgate, Bucknell (Lehigh, Bucknell, and Lafayette have engineering programs.) The USNA and USMA are quasi-LACs (LACs with a STEM focus.) Lehigh has too large a graduate school to be a LAC. Loyola, American, Boston U are not LACs because of either the graduate schools and/or range of the undergraduate curriculum.
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Post by unhfan on Dec 29, 2016 8:08:36 GMT -5
As an outsider the perception of Holy Cross being a step below the Ivies would be greatly damaged by a move to the MAAC. The MAAC schools are not at the same caliber nor have the same standards as the PL schools.
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Post by sarasota on Dec 29, 2016 8:44:26 GMT -5
PP- Thanks for requested info. Upon further thought, I would think it more germane to consider the percentage of Bachelor (whether in Engineering or pre-occupational programs) students among all students. Although my experience is old, I would think that all Bachelor programs require some kind of core LA requirement.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 29, 2016 8:45:06 GMT -5
Below are the SAT (V/M) scores for the 25th and 75th percentiles for ten schools.
The year shown is the Common Data Set data year. (I believe the SAT scores for 2016-17 are not comparable with prior year SAT scores because the SAT was adjusted starting with the class entering in Fall, 2016. This affects HC (1220 / 1370) and Lafayette scores only) Canisius (2015-16) 950 / 1180 Fairfield (2015-16) 1100 / 1270 Siena (2015-16) 980 / 1200
Bucknell (2015-16) 1210 / 1400 Colgate (2015-16) 1250 / 1450 Lafayette (2016-17) 1200 / 1390
UConn Storrs (2015-16) 1130 / 1340 UMass Amherst (2013-14) 1130 / 1310 UVermont (2015-16) 1100 / 1300
Cal Berkeley (2015-16) 1250 / 1500
'Birds of a feather flock together' ________________________________________
'Sota, breaking out the engineering and pre-professional (vocational) majors can only be done using the CDS. Some of the MAAC schools do not prepare/publish a CDS. I looked for one for Rider, and like Iona and St. Peter's, there is none.
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Post by sader81 on Dec 29, 2016 10:07:21 GMT -5
The MAAC is a lateral step; the Big East may be a bridge too far. We can compete with the A-10 and keep football!
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