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Post by hchoops on Nov 5, 2023 12:31:29 GMT -5
I cannot recall any receiver having so many long, difficult and clutch catches. So where does Jalen stand in the long tradition of HC receivers ? Top 5 ? Top 3 ? #1 ? Let’s discuss this.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 5, 2023 12:40:46 GMT -5
This is a great question. Amongst our big 3 (Dobbs, Sluka , Coker) he seems to have the greatest pro potential. (Have to admit I don’t know a 40 time for any of them).
I’m immediately thinking of the Carter Holy Cross years and can’t think of one better than Jalen. Speed, size, and hands.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 5, 2023 13:11:17 GMT -5
The stats would suggest he's #1 but using my eye-test, he's also #1.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 5, 2023 13:36:49 GMT -5
I asked a simple question- who has been a better WR over the last 65 years?
I have been unable to identify that player
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Post by cruskater31 on Nov 5, 2023 14:16:27 GMT -5
Probably Ari and Johnny Turco are the two names that come to mind, but I don't think either can top Jalen. His hands, separation, route running, and sheer amount of TDs are elite. I do think Jalen is the #1 WR in our history.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 5, 2023 16:06:26 GMT -5
From this non-expert's point of view he is far and away our best wide receiver among those I have seen. Does he have anf deficiencies? I think not. He has great hands, can jump to the clouds. runs his routes (I've not heard otherwise) --he's got it all
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Post by cruskater31 on Nov 5, 2023 17:19:27 GMT -5
I think we posted this previously, but I will re-post it here. NFL Draft Diamonds scouting reporting on Jalen. The chart isn't copying on my phone so here the blurb: Sr. Jalen boasts a thin, cut frame with good measurables. He lines up across the formation from tight to slot, to outside position and runs a full variation of routes. His stance is usually a forward lean that allows his quick feet to provide an immediate cushion for the stem. He has underestimated agility and cut ability, which he combines with good FBI and quick turns to identify and sit in zone uncovers. His solid stem and route running skills often aid in stacking slower DBs and breaking on intermediate routes, generating some initial space, and sufficient deep speed. He also depends on his initial movement at the snap and feet to blow past or cut in front of corners in tight coverage, while using these features to execute his route in off coverage quickly. He possesses skillful hands and will maintain possession after taking big hits. He is also a good ball tracker that plays with high concentration, bringing down contested balls, and watching the ball into his hands. His impressive contact balance has assisted him in maintaining route structure, even through forceful jersey grabs, maintaining route integrity. A competitive player, he looks to gain yards after contact and drags solo tacklers an extra yard or so. He does settle for positioning and rather than overtaking the defender for the best real estate, will look to attempt the completion behind him. With adequate play speed, his separation abilities are limited. In crossers as well as short passes, he struggles to generate explosive plays when defenders are in front of him. While he does fall forward, he struggles to generate much push against this level of competition. He is a sufficient blocker whose results show not based on physicality, but athleticism over his opponent depending heavily on extended arms, positioning, driving corners, or distracted safeties with his adequate functional strength. Scheme Fit: Slot in West Coast or Spread schemes, X in Run Heavy Offenses nfldraftdiamonds.com/2023/10/jalen-coker/
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Post by hchoops on Nov 5, 2023 17:34:31 GMT -5
HC has had a number of pros over the last 60 years, but I can think of no receivers. I guess Kalif may be the only one I can think of and even if Jalen does not have the pro career of Kalif, he certainly has been the more dominant college receiver. HC has had at least one pro defensive back and multiple lineman, but I am not aware of any receivers. Of course, making the NFL obviously does not mean that particular player was a superior college player.
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Post by football44 on Nov 5, 2023 17:41:44 GMT -5
I played with a pretty good wide receiver, Dave Quehl. I believe he’s in the Hall of Fame at HC.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 5, 2023 17:43:26 GMT -5
I would have to go with Khalif Raymond until further notice. Khalif's early years were kind of a dead period for HC QBs. He did have a developing Peter Pujals getting him the ball later in his career.
Ari Confesor may be un the conversation. I never saw him play but most on this board have and several played with him.
My top 5 since I've been around (2006 season):
1) Khalif Raymond 2) Jalen Coker 3) Brendan Flaherty 4) Brett McDermott 5) Ayir Asante
Honorable Mention: Mike Fess, Ryan Maher
If I'm egregiously omitting or forgetting anyone, feel free to chime in.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 5, 2023 18:17:24 GMT -5
Gordie Lockbaum is seventh all time for career receiving yards with 2012 in only two seasons on offense with no 12 game seasons or playoff games. So he is in the discussion as he might have topped all the receiving records if he played four years on offense.
Jeff Wiley was more of a pure passer than Matt Sluka. Jump Ball Jalen achieved his success in one of the better running offenses in HC history. Jalen also had one Covid shortened season to limit his production. The shorter Gordie didn't win as many jump balls. And Gordie played against more non-scholarship secondaries.
I would place Jalen and Gordie as the best two receivers I have seen at Holy Cross. I'd say Kalif Raymond reached his full potential after Holy Cross. I would love to see Jalen join him in the NFL.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 5, 2023 18:48:16 GMT -5
Seen almost all of these guys named but IMHO, no one comes close to be able to catch a ball in heavy traffic. And he's done it multiple times. Now, I suppose one could argue that if he was really good, he'd be able to put space between himself and the defender(s) so he wouldn't be in heavy traffic. But his vertical leap is much greater than any of the others and his ability to get and, more importantly, hold onto the ball when hit stands out.
And, I agree with the observation that making the NFL or not should not be the determinant of HC's best receiver. For my money, Jalen is #1 and a sure fire future Hall of Famer.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 5, 2023 18:57:34 GMT -5
I would have to go with Khalif Raymond until further notice. Khalif's early years were kind of a dead period for HC QBs. He did have a developing Peter Pujals getting him the ball later in his career. Ari Confesor may be un the conversation. I never saw him play but most on this board have and several played with him. My top 5 since I've been around (2006 season): 1) Khalif Raymond 2) Jalen Coker 3) Brendan Flaherty 4) Brett McDermott 5) Ayir Asante Honorable Mention: Mike Fess, Ryan Maher If I'm egregiously omitting or forgetting anyone, feel free to chime in. If we are only evaluating college career and ignoring professional experience, I don’t believe Kalif cracks top five. I can think of a number of guys who were more successful at HC than him.
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Post by mm67 on Nov 5, 2023 19:41:16 GMT -5
Best to make career evaluations after the career. Like all superstitious fans I do not want to Jinx any player by making in-season, premature claims. A rough & tough Army game awaits. After that there is G'Town. Best to put the need for instant gratification on the shelf.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 5, 2023 19:46:04 GMT -5
Mike Redding was an excellent receiver on a team of stars under Coach Carter. I saw him play several times and he's generally considered to be one of the best in Holy Cross history. Like so many great Holy Cross players he made a big impact beginning in his frosh year. When he graduated he was 2nd on the all time HC list in terms of receptions. I think Jalen is definitely better. For those unfamiliar with Mike Redding: www.mansfieldfootball.org/hc_story.htmJalen's college career has been much better than Khalif Raymond's college career, IMHO. football44 (above) is definitely on to something: David Quehl (Holy Cross) Draft: 14th round, 382nd overall of the 1976 NFL draft by the New England Patriots. Very big reception numbers (for the time). Holy Cross Ring of Honor.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 5, 2023 20:02:44 GMT -5
Mark Gallagher was a very good receiver-very fast as I recall.
I saw Dave Quehl many times as he was in the class after mine. As noted above he caught a lot of passes when teams did not pass as often as they do now
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Post by midwestsader05 on Nov 5, 2023 20:08:45 GMT -5
Jalen and it’s not close. I played with Ari. He was very good but more of a Shorter type. NY listed some other very good ones this century. I also overlapped w/ Dave Thompson (2000-2001, transfer from Grambling) who was another big 6’3 receiver that was talented but not close to Jalen.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 5, 2023 20:09:53 GMT -5
I've found another Crusader NFL wide receiver: All Snyder played 2 games for the Patriots in 1964 and caught one 12 yard pass. He played 5 games for the Colts the next year but had no receptions
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Post by hchoops on Nov 5, 2023 20:13:51 GMT -5
Good research, Ky. It was more likely the AFL. As has been mentioned, those were the years that the run game dominated. Al Snyder was good, but not in Jalen’s class. He set the then record for reception with 90 for 1474 yards and 12 TDs.
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Post by Ignutz on Nov 5, 2023 20:21:19 GMT -5
Dave Quehl came to mind immediately. He was steady and sure-handed, but not, in my mind, as impactful as Jalen. Ari, Khalif, Ayir and Brendan Flaherty stand out, but for my money, Jalen gets the nod - with little, if any, hesitation.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 6, 2023 0:19:57 GMT -5
Good research, Ky. It was more likely the AFL. As has been mentioned, those were the years that the run game dominated. Al Snyder was good, but not in Jalen’s class. He set the then record for reception with 90 for 1474 yards and 12 TDs. Yes-drafted by the Pats of the AFL but then played in the NFL the second year with the Baltimore Colts
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Post by hchoops on Nov 6, 2023 8:10:11 GMT -5
1- JBJ 2- Gordie Heisman 3- Dave Q. ** Pete Kimener- 1966 - HC- 32. BC-26(sentimental)
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Post by cruskater31 on Nov 6, 2023 8:21:58 GMT -5
I think it is pretty clear, Jump Ball has jumped over the record books at HC.
Anyone ever watched the late Johnny Turco play? His name is in the record books and had the receiving TD record in a single game until the 90's. It is my understanding he was used as a runner and receiver. I have no doubt Jalen is superior, but I'm curious now since his is a name we haven't heard much about and whose name appears on a gameday trophy (homecoming?)
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Post by inhocsigno on Nov 6, 2023 8:24:44 GMT -5
I played with Ari, Labo, Thompson, etc. All talented in their own right, and did it without really good QB play (Ari and Thompson had Hall and Stewart later on), but Labo did not have consistent QB play for his career.
Gallagher before my time, but he could still run when he played in Alumni games.
Coker is special. I would put him in a different league.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Nov 6, 2023 8:45:58 GMT -5
I will say this for Ari. Even though he had more of a Shorter and Ayir type build (~5’11 175-180) and was more quick than fast, he had more reliable hands than those two. Also a great football IQ of how to get open in both man and zone coverage. Probably could count on one hand how many catchable balls he dropped in four years.
But again Jalen is different than anyone this century. The combination of size, explosiveness, twitch and catch radius. His hands are stronger than most I’ve seen at the FCS level in my 25 years of watching it closely.
He should at minimum be on an NFL practice squad, perhaps a 53 man roster at this time next year or starting for a power 4 top 30 FBS program if he moves on from HC after this spring.
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