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Post by Tom on Apr 24, 2024 21:52:30 GMT -5
What’s the scam? The cost of college or the redistribution of wealth via need based financial aid? Any thoughts about redistribution of wealth via merit money to those who can afford to pay full sticker price? How do they do it? My limited anecdotal experience is they overestimate how much families can realistically afford to pay thus underestimating their need for financial aid, perhaps especially for the cohort of applicants who HC needs to admit to meet their enrollment goals but whose HS transcript and test scores don't cause corks to be popped in O'Kane Hall. I have been told by HC financial aid people that, because federal loans are part of "the package", the calculation of family contribution is a federal calculation - HC does not have a formula. One might argue the federal calculation over estimates a family's ability to pay, but it is not HC over estimating
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 24, 2024 22:05:12 GMT -5
The compromises colleges have to make to keep a $90K per year juggernaut going is one reason I like seeing 50 year old gyms still being used when they easily still fit the number of fans who attend and colleges utilizing nearby municipal facilities for some sports instead of building a one user facility on campus.
The trend towards luxury townhouse apartments as opposed to cost efficient dorms is another policy decision that feeds the $90K/year beast. I guess that means the market won't pay anywhere near $90K for the actual instruction contained in four years of stretched out agrarian model school calendar.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 25, 2024 6:27:43 GMT -5
I can't speak to what they are doing now but 30 years ago, whether it was Holy Cross' methodology or the feds, that was my experience. In my case, the applicant was definitely not someone who HC needed to admit to meet their enrollment goals (national honor society, all AP courses, etc., etc.)
Two years later, Fairfield seemed to have done a better job but I recognize by that point, we had two in college. However, then with 2 in college, HC never adjusted the financial aid for student #1. From memory, I specifically asked HC for due consideration . . . . no dice.
As I am sure I posted before, I took out a second mortgage for the debt rather than add more parent educational loans as I was at least able to claim the interest on my taxes. Don't think that works as well now with caps on interest but 1.I don't have that need so to quote a former FLOTUS "I don't care, do you?" and 2. Too lazy to look it up and will let the accounts on here comment.
FWIW, it all worked out for both offspring at their respective alma maters.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2024 7:21:42 GMT -5
I will argue that the greatest redistribution of wealth resulted from George W. Bush's tax cuts. This graph is an index of how much workers get compared to how much the owners/stock holders get. (The spike in labor's share circa 2020 reflects the huge stimulus payments to individuals because of COVID.) Gini coefficient of inequality in the United States. A declining value (less unequal) until the early 1980s. And what happened then? Reagan tax cuts.<iframe src="https://data.worldbank.org/share/widget?indicators=SI.POV.GINI&locations=US" width='450' height='300' frameBorder='0' scrolling="no" ></iframe>^^^ chart won't imbed.
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Post by alum on Apr 25, 2024 7:25:49 GMT -5
What’s the scam? The cost of college or the redistribution of wealth via need based financial aid? Any thoughts about redistribution of wealth via merit money to those who can afford to pay full sticker price? "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." -Karl Marx “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.” --Jesus of Nazareth as relayed by Luke 3:10-11.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2024 14:15:10 GMT -5
According to MIT, for 2024-25, tuition and fees cover less than half the cost incurred by MIT for educating an undergraduate. For MIT, total cost of attendance to MIT per U/G student is between $125,000-$130,000. Tuition is $62,000. Additional revenue from room and board (about $20,000 per) reduces the gap, An analysis from 2015-16, for private colleges and universities, indicated that tuition covered about 60 percent of the cost of educating an undergraduate student. collegeaffordability.urban.org/cost-of-educating/subsidies/
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 25, 2024 14:37:10 GMT -5
Wow- that “total cost” number at MIT is hard to believe
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2024 18:57:19 GMT -5
Wow- that “total cost” number at MIT is hard to believe Even harder to believe is that the "total cost" for a graduate student is 3x the cost of educating an undergraduate student.. I suspect that varies significantly by degree program. ----------------- True story; Circa 1970, BC students went on strike because the school announced a $500 increase in tuition. As a percentage of total tuition cost at that time, this was HUGE increase. Why did BC announce such a hike? The school's operating deficit was $5.6 million. If BC didn't increase it's revenue stream, bankruptcy and a sale to Harvard loomed. And what about the BC endowment? you ask. The total value of the endowment at that time was $6 million.
As the BC student newspaper noted at the time. Harvard's endowment was about $1 billion. Harvard's endowment was over 160x times larger than BC's. Now it is 13-14x times larger. So ten-fold progress by BC. --------------- Cost of tuition at St. Sebastian's school, west of Boston, in the current 2023-24 academic year is $58,200. (A whopping $2,000 cheaper than HC's tuition cost.) Day school so no room/board charges.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 26, 2024 9:04:25 GMT -5
Re: St. Seb's
They claim 30% get some kind of financial aid. That means 70% do not. Wonder how much aid those in each category get at the next level.
Re: BC
When BC sent an admissions person to my high school in the fall of 1968, he mentioned the tuition was going up to 2K, or a little above that. So, a year later, going up $500 would be something like a 20-25% jump, pretty significant.
Holy Cross' tuition went up to about the same number. The HC person who came to my school was a lot more apologetic about the increase than the BC guy. Always remembered that about the two gentlemen.
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Post by alum on Apr 26, 2024 10:05:25 GMT -5
In the fall of 1980, HC tuition was about $6800. By the fall of 83, it was north of $10,500.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 26, 2024 17:42:49 GMT -5
As long as we've changed course on this a bit, here's what I found for some other Catholic-affiliated schools in Greater Boston.
Austin Prep- 26K (in terms of sports, now considered a private school like St. Seb's) St. John's Prep - 33K Xaverian Brothers 25.7K BC High 29.4K Notre Dame Hingham 29.9K Ursuline Academy 25K ...and the "bargains" St. John's (S)- 20.4K Bishop Fenwick 19.5K
I also looked up a bunch of non-Catholic privates, Milton Academy seems to top my list at 63K, several others were almost to the penny the same as St. Seb's.
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Post by alum on Apr 26, 2024 18:19:22 GMT -5
As long as we've changed course on this a bit, here's what I found for some other Catholic-affiliated schools in Greater Boston. Austin Prep- 26K (in terms of sports, now considered a private school like St. Seb's) St. John's Prep - 33K Xaverian Brothers 25.7K BC High 29.4K Notre Dame Hingham 29.9K Ursuline Academy 25K ...and the "bargains" St. John's (S)- 20.4K Bishop Fenwick 19.5K I also looked up a bunch of non-Catholic privates, Milton Academy seems to top my list at 63K, several others were almost to the penny the same as St. Seb's. Greater Hartford Catholics are cheaper. East is $15,800 and Northwest is $17,000.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 26, 2024 18:19:29 GMT -5
Holy Cross' total expenses in fiscal 2023 were $229.0 million
Assuming an on-campus enrollment of 2900 (excludes those studying elsewhere, i.e., NYC, DC, other countries), the expenses per on-campus student were $79,000.
However, Holy Cross awarded $64M in financial aid grants, including $14M in athletic awards. Much of the grant money was obtained by charging full-pay students a tuition/fees/room & board amount above that needed to cover the College's expenses. The full-pays are 'subsidizing those receiving financial aid grants; i.e., a redistribution of 'wealth'.
A key feature of the next capital campaign will be to increase the endowment value which should reduce the amount that full-pays subsidize the College's financial aid program.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 26, 2024 18:34:19 GMT -5
^^^ As a point of reference, Colgate (with a very similar enrollment to HC's) had total expenses of $249 million. Colgate's institutional fin aid grants totaled $74.4M (including $16 million in athletics awards).
Colgate's endowment value for fiscal 2023 was $160 million higher than HC's.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 26, 2024 22:37:16 GMT -5
I would imagine at some point Colgate's endowment was triple HC's and then at a later point double, and then at some point 50% higher and now 15% or so higher. There's no logical reason we will catch them as Colgate isn't weakening or falling behind HC but we should keep pace with them.
The Raidahs had a generation or two head start in getting off the boat but HC should have pulled even by now.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 27, 2024 15:18:52 GMT -5
Supposedly at the end of 2022, HC and CU were basically dead even in endowment. They either found more benefactors (or the existing ones gave a bit more) or they invest better. Or maybe both.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 27, 2024 16:00:36 GMT -5
Supposedly at the end of 2022, HC and CU were basically dead even in endowment. They either found more benefactors (or the existing ones gave a bit more) or they invest better. Or maybe both. Endowment value Colgate / HC / differential 2019 949 / 786 / 163 2020 954 / 760 / 194 2021 1263 / 1043 / 220 2022 1147 / 993 / 154 2023 1202 / 1043 / 159 The 1043 twice is not a typo.
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