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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 20, 2018 12:48:11 GMT -5
Comparing Mecklenburg County (which is Charlotte) / Worcester County / Providence County / Bristol County Population (2017 Estimate) 1,077,000 / 826,000 / 637,000 / 561,000 Median Household Income (2012-2016) $59,300 / $67,000 / $50,600 / $59,300 Retail Sales per capita (2012) $15,200 / $13,500 / $9,500 / $15,200 Employment (2016) 608,000 / 301,000 / 270,000 / 202,000 Total Employer Establishments (2016) 31,000 / 18,100 / 15,900 / -- Annual Payroll ( 2016) $35.8B / $14.6B / $13B / $9.1B What do these numbers indicate? > A lot of people who live in Worcester County don't work there. Because of work/commute hours, this might affect weekday attendance. > Disposable income in Charlotte (as a percentage of household income) is a lot more than in Worcester. > Providence County is not a good proxy for Pawtucket because Pawtucket is on the MA border. When looking at Pawtucket, one should probably combine Bristol and Providence counties. > One would expect Charlotte to do well, attendance-wise. And parts of Middlesex County should be included with Worcester, especially Marlboro/Hudson and Natick/Framingham. I talked to a group of people this weekend from the Natick and Framingham area. They said everyone around that part of the state is excited about the Red Sox AAA affiliate moving to Worcester and will attend many games there.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 20, 2018 13:03:53 GMT -5
How about Hamden County inc Springfield in Mass and south to New London in Connecticut ? Could they draw Storrs UConn students, esp those Red Sox fans ? Could they take the Sox fans in Hartford area away from the Yard Goats who are a Colorado affiliate(as strange as the Las Vegas AAA Mets team) ?
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Post by rickii on Aug 20, 2018 13:46:21 GMT -5
FWIW - MLB's best prospects are usually at the AA level (which clubs use as more developmental - Portland in the BoSox' case), not parked at the AAA level. I know this is the new norm. Mookie Betts and Andrew Benintendi jumped from AA. Xander Bogarts split a season between Portland and Pawtucket before getting the call. I still think it doesn't change the basic concept that it's kind of cool to see future Red Sox stars from better seats for relatively short money Between Portland, Pawtucket and Worcester, which is closest to Fenway ?
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Post by Tom on Aug 20, 2018 14:45:30 GMT -5
I know this is the new norm. Mookie Betts and Andrew Benintendi jumped from AA. Xander Bogarts split a season between Portland and Pawtucket before getting the call. I still think it doesn't change the basic concept that it's kind of cool to see future Red Sox stars from better seats for relatively short money Between Portland, Pawtucket and Worcester, which is closest to Fenway ? Worcester and Pawtucket are virtually equidistant from Fenway Portland is about double that distance
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 20, 2018 15:07:29 GMT -5
I know this is the new norm. Mookie Betts and Andrew Benintendi jumped from AA. Actually, Betts played 45 games in Pawtucket in 2014.
Very few players go straight from AA to the majors - the ones that do (Kershaw, Altuve, Cabrera, e.g.) tend to be among the elite 5% or so of players in MLB. Then again, Mike Trout played 20 games in AAA,, and so did Bryce Harper. Maybe I'll check it out later, but I'd be willing to wager that 80%+ of the players who appeared in the All-Star game last year spent some time in AAA.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 20, 2018 15:32:14 GMT -5
How about Hamden County inc Springfield in Mass and south to New London in Connecticut ? Could they draw Storrs UConn students, esp those Red Sox fans ? Could they take the Sox fans in Hartford area away from the Yard Goats who are a Colorado affiliate(as strange as the Las Vegas AAA Mets team) ? Maybe the old geezers will. The average age of a MLB viewer was 53* in 2017; half the audience (the median) is 55 or older, up from 41 percent in 2007. << That's a cohort that's aging in place. This is the highest average age among major sports. *Another survey in 2017 had the average age as 57. From what I read, the Sox's financial exposure is about $30 million, or $1 million a year rent for Polar Park for 30 years. Perhaps Worcester will wrangle an early termination clause out of the Sox, so the Sox pay a significant penalty if they don't stay the full 30 years. Perhaps Mr. Henry will re-buy the T&G to better promote his team. Perhaps NESN will be able to locate the second largest city in New England and do some local (non Woo Sox) broadcasts.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 20, 2018 15:45:41 GMT -5
The Yard Goats has a great nickname and that by itself can draw fan support. It was much the same with the Devil's minor league "Albany River Rats." I do miss that team.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 20, 2018 15:56:39 GMT -5
How about Hamden County inc Springfield in Mass and south to New London in Connecticut ? Could they draw Storrs UConn students, esp those Red Sox fans ? Could they take the Sox fans in Hartford area away from the Yard Goats who are a Colorado affiliate(as strange as the Las Vegas AAA Mets team) ? Maybe the old geezers will. The average age of a MLB viewer was 53* in 2017; half the audience (the median) is 55 or older, up from 41 percent in 2007. << That's a cohort that's aging in place. This is the highest average age among major sports. *Another survey in 2017 had the average age as 57. From what I read, the Sox's financial exposure is about $30 million, or $1 million a year rent for Polar Park for 30 years. Perhaps Worcester will wrangle an early termination clause out of the Sox, so the Sox pay a significant penalty if they don't stay the full 30 years. Perhaps Mr. Henry will re-buy the T&G to better promote his team. Perhaps NESN will be able to locate the second largest city in New England and do some local (non Woo Sox) broadcasts. Thanks for the stats i wonder if minor league baseball attendance has the same demographic as MLB tv viewers or attendees. Since the prices are far more family favorable, it seems that minor league averag age attendee would be somewhat or much lower.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 20, 2018 16:00:43 GMT -5
MLB game attendance may have a younger demographic than MLB TV viewership
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Post by DiMarz on Aug 20, 2018 20:40:44 GMT -5
One of the big draws will be the fact that the team is affiliated with the BOSTON RED SOX....When Worcester had the AHL team (which left to be closer to their NHL team) the biggest selling games were always vs. the Providence BRUINS..
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Post by deep Purple on Aug 20, 2018 21:22:37 GMT -5
One of the big draws will be the fact that the team is affiliated with the BOSTON RED SOX....When Worcester had the AHL team (which left to be closer to their NHL team) the biggest selling games were always vs. the Providence BRUINS.. Not only that but it's baseball on a summer night vs hockey in the dead of winter.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 20, 2018 21:29:33 GMT -5
Or baseball on an early April night that feels like the dead of winter
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 20, 2018 22:24:30 GMT -5
Or baseball on an early April night that feels like the dead of winter The attendance for the team in general needs to be made in July and August when the kids are out of school. The rest of the season you are just trying to survive on school night games
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Post by hchoops on Aug 20, 2018 22:26:58 GMT -5
I would think that April, may and June weekend games would be important.
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Post by alum on Aug 21, 2018 6:51:13 GMT -5
The business model for AA and below involves lots of group outings (youth leagues, PTA's, church groups, birthday parties) with the hopes that all of those people come back for one more game. I agree that you need a cool name and a good mascot as well as lots of people throwing out first pitches, playing between inning contests, etc. I think that AAA is similar, but can also benefit from the more serious baseball fan looking for a chance to see players nearing the majors as well as the occasional rehab assignments. I would assume that a Worcester team will try to sell tickets to the colleges for first-year orientation during the final week of the season and then again in April/May. That would be win-win-win for the team, the colleges, and the restaurants/bars in the neighborhood.
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Post by cmo on Aug 21, 2018 7:05:40 GMT -5
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Post by lou on Aug 21, 2018 7:28:34 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 21, 2018 7:47:08 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Aug 21, 2018 7:53:38 GMT -5
Ok, yet Youth baseball seems to be growing at a faster rate than other sports
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 21, 2018 7:54:58 GMT -5
Three fans, with their ages, are quoted in the Times article. All are in their 60s.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 21, 2018 7:58:13 GMT -5
Three fans, with their ages, are quoted in the Times article. All are in their 60s. Proving what exactly ? cmon, PP. you can come up with a more convincing argument than that. Is the writer supposed to interview 10 year olds ?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 21, 2018 8:07:34 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 21, 2018 8:34:13 GMT -5
Three fans, with their ages, are quoted in the Times article. All are in their 60s. Proving what exactly ? cmon, PP. you can come up with a more convincing argument than that. Is the writer supposed to interview 10 year olds ? I didn't count the white-haired gentleman in the photo, who did not appear to be walking at a brisk pace. I don't doubt that Worcester can probably match Pawtucket's recent attendance averages, but if the city is basing its ability to pay off the stadium financing on an average attendance of 7,000 or 9,000, then I would be concerned if I were a Worcester homeowner. The Mets and Phillies played a regular season game this past weekend in Williamsport. I think the stadium held 2,500. If The WooSox will be happy with 5,000 average attendance at Polar Field, one could probably improve Fitton Field for a similar capacity for a quarter of the price of Polar Field.
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Post by gks on Aug 21, 2018 9:55:33 GMT -5
Phreek have you ever been to a PawSox game? The crowd is 90% families or youth groups looking for a great night of high-quality baseball at a reasonable price. Stop using any major league stats, polls or quotes. Some days McCoy is barely half full but on weekends the park is usually banged out and a lot of fun. No reason why this won't continue or be better in Worcester. The big thing is how the ownership prices the experience. There is a line that if the WooSox cross it will affect attendance. Have to make it that it's substantially cheaper than Fenway.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 21, 2018 10:14:53 GMT -5
Phreek have you ever been to a PawSox game? The crowd is 90% families or youth groups looking for a great night of high-quality baseball at a reasonable price. Stop using any major league stats, polls or quotes. Some days McCoy is barely half full but on weekends the park is usually banged out and a lot of fun. No reason why this won't continue or be better in Worcester. The big thing is how the ownership prices the experience. There is a line that if the WooSox cross it will affect attendance. Have to make it that it's substantially cheaper than Fenway.
The current Pawsox fanbase of mostly young families and retirees will not make up the same numbers going forward. A new stadium, regardless of whether it was in RI or Worcester, changes that. Going to games no longer will be the same cheap night out for entertainment. McCoy offered low ticket prices and free parking with most buying their meals inside the park at its concessions. A new stadium will mean higher ticket prices and more than likely paying to park. All the new development will be predicated on game attendees spending their money on the businesses surrounding the park. This ownership group wants a more upscale corporate crowd that will generate more revenues for it (boxes/preferred seating/club). Younger (21-35) childless demographics with disposable income will also have to be targeted as these are the types that would typically support nearby bars and restaurants. The family oriented dynamics of McCoy will be long gone. A new fan base on many different levels (where they come from/demographics) will need to be cultivated.
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