|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 28, 2018 20:10:43 GMT -5
You could walk down any city street in America tomorrow and ask 200 people who won the NCAA Lax title yesterday, and I'd be shocked if a single person knew the answer.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on May 28, 2018 21:10:25 GMT -5
You could walk down any city street in America tomorrow and ask 200 people who won the NCAA Lax title yesterday, and I'd be shocked if a single person knew the answer. Not Wall St.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 28, 2018 21:20:24 GMT -5
You could walk down any city street in America tomorrow and ask 200 people who won the NCAA Lax title yesterday, and I'd be shocked if a single person knew the answer. Not Wall St. Wall St. That's exactly why Lax doesn't resonate with 99% of America.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on May 29, 2018 6:19:40 GMT -5
You could walk down any city street in America tomorrow and ask 200 people who won the NCAA Lax title yesterday, and I'd be shocked if a single person knew the answer. Depends on the street.
In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if you'd get the same answer for almost all college sports. How many would know the FCS football champion? The Baseball champion? The hockey champion? The soccer champion? Etc. Those are also popular sports but that does not imply most people will know the NCAA champion for a particular year.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on May 29, 2018 6:48:58 GMT -5
Lacrosse Final Four attendance was 100,000 in 2007 and was 59,000 this weekend. Number is about what LAX has been pulling the last 5 or 6 years to their D-1 attendance at Lax final four weekend. Definitely not men's Div-1 basketball final four numbers.
If you are concerned about a possible decline in college lacrosse's popularity based on in-person D-1 Lax Final Four attendance, you can broaden your inquiry by looking at total Foxboro college lax championship attendance for the "Championship Weekends" here: www.laxpower.com/common/NCAA-Attendance.pshp (Note, there seems to be very little decline if at all.)
|
|
|
Post by alum on May 29, 2018 7:30:27 GMT -5
But if the game is growing so fast over the last decade why are those families not attending and watching the Super Bowl of lacrosse? As mentioned, possibly for the same reasons soccer has not expanded from its lower levels’ popularity. Both have relatively long periods of slow to very slow play, not conducive to the average America sports fan seeking more continuous action. When my son first introduced us to lacrosse thirteen years ago (how can it be that long?) we went to Philly for the Sunday D2 and D3 doubleheader. He was in the 6th grade and had just started playing, having discovered the sport the prior spring on ESPN and made us find a rec league three towns away. I had never seen good lacrosse in person before going to Philly and I recall it being very slow. The middie would get the ball, go out toward midfield, a defender would follow him out, The middie would try to dodge and get to the net. If he did not have a great chance, they would rotate the ball around and try again. There was less interior passing than there is today. It was pretty dull. I have been to parts or all of five championship weekends in Foxboro, Baltimore, and Philly and have been to early season triple headers in Philly and Baltimore as well. Rule changes and increased athleticism as the sport has grown have made it a much less deliberate game. It is possible for a team to come back from several goals down in a very short time span. College soccer, ( I go to 2 or 3 UCONN games per year) on the other hand, seems to be getting slower.
|
|
|
Post by alum on May 29, 2018 7:31:07 GMT -5
Wall St. That's exactly why Lax doesn't resonate with 99% of America. So, you don't like lacrosse, huh?
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on May 29, 2018 8:24:20 GMT -5
As mentioned, possibly for the same reasons soccer has not expanded from its lower levels’ popularity. Both have relatively long periods of slow to very slow play, not conducive to the average America sports fan seeking more continuous action. When my son first introduced us to lacrosse thirteen years ago (how can it be that long?) we went to Philly for the Sunday D2 and D3 doubleheader. He was in the 6th grade and had just started playing, having discovered the sport the prior spring on ESPN and made us find a rec league three towns away. I had never seen good lacrosse in person before going to Philly and I recall it being very slow. The middie would get the ball, go out toward midfield, a defender would follow him out, The middie would try to dodge and get to the net. If he did not have a great chance, they would rotate the ball around and try again. There was less interior passing than there is today. It was pretty dull. I have been to parts or all of five championship weekends in Foxboro, Baltimore, and Philly and have been to early season triple headers in Philly and Baltimore as well. Rule changes and increased athleticism as the sport has grown have made it a much less deliberate game. It is possible for a team to come back from several goals down in a very short time span. College soccer, ( I go to 2 or 3 UCONN games per year) on the other hand, seems to be getting slower. I will take your word for it, but there are still many periods of almost total inaction.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on May 29, 2018 12:26:13 GMT -5
With the exception of football and basketball, every college sport is a niche sport, so these numbers aren't too surprising.
I actually think the CWS in Omaha draws very well.
|
|
|
Post by tannerboyle on May 29, 2018 18:44:14 GMT -5
You could walk down any city street in America tomorrow and ask 200 people who won the NCAA Lax title yesterday, and I'd be shocked if a single person knew the answer. For someone with such disdain for lacrosse you spend a great deal of time on threads discussing all the sport’s failings. That’s ok, people tend to fear the future/unknown. What you and every other alum should be truly fearful of is the annual cash flush (read: millions!) The College executes every year in supporting 1AA football at a school with the same enrollment numbers of NESCAC (D3) schools. The definition of stupidity is repeating the same thing over and over again with the expectation of different results. But again, I’m glad there are folks like you who think a return to the glory days of the 60’s and 70’s is still possible - nice for entertainment value.
|
|
|
Post by hcgrad94 on May 29, 2018 18:52:02 GMT -5
Ok hear you but Yale just won the national title and averaged a reported 1600 per game at home. Not like lacrosse is a wilderness sport anymore. Will they averge significantly more next year? Doubt it. Try and recreate NYC two years ago or BC etc going forward without football. Can't be done.
|
|
|
Post by tannerboyle on May 29, 2018 19:34:55 GMT -5
Try to create NYC two years ago? You check that score? BC this year - look forward to checking that score. Football is a galactic waste of the school’s resources.
The College needs to look to athletic relevance. That starts and stops with the two hoop programs. It follows with demographic sports that actually could provide the school regional relevance (hockey and lacrosse).
PL’s strongest sport is lacrosse - that is a fact.
A 1AA football team with an enrollment of 2700 students - stupid is not a strong enough word to describe that.
Hope is not a strategy and neither is plopping the football team in Yankee or Alumni stadiums.
Lacrosse absolutely remains a wilderness sport. Youth growth/participation is not matched by the growth of the sport collegiately.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 29, 2018 19:53:41 GMT -5
Football is the quintessential college sport that unites a college’s alumni and supporters across the country.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 29, 2018 20:00:30 GMT -5
You could walk down any city street in America tomorrow and ask 200 people who won the NCAA Lax title yesterday, and I'd be shocked if a single person knew the answer. For someone with such disdain for lacrosse you spend a great deal of time on threads discussing all the sport’s failings. That’s ok, people tend to fear the future/unknown. What you and every other alum should be truly fearful of is the annual cash flush (read: millions!) The College executes every year in supporting 1AA football at a school with the same enrollment numbers of NESCAC (D3) schools. The definition of stupidity is repeating the same thing over and over again with the expectation of different results. But again, I’m glad there are folks like you who think a return to the glory days of the 60’s and 70’s is still possible - nice for entertainment value. I've been a poster on Crossports for nearly 8 yrs. I have made exactly FOUR posts on Lax in that time. Tell me how that qualifies as a "great deal of time". I'm not an HC alum, I am an alum of a nearby state school and a Worc native who left the city limits 21 years ago, yet I still attend a lot more HC events than most alums even now while living 90+ miles away. If you were a regular on these pages, you'd know I have NEVER implied that a return to the glory days is possible. My stance is quite the opposite actually. In the end my only point is that general interest in Lax isn't growing despite what some would like us to think.
|
|
|
Post by tannerboyle on May 29, 2018 20:00:50 GMT -5
Let’s keep this going - i can go all night.
That 31,000 is 12,000 more than the attendance of the FCS final in Texas last fall.
Also, you referenced Yale averaging 1600/game. I would love to see what the average attendance (game attendance) was for our indomitable football team. No matter what it is (guarantee the number ain’t far off the 1600) the spend rate per customer/fan will be disgustingly bad relative to Yale’s spend rate for their lacrosse fans.
I’d also be willing to bet the attendance for the D2/D3 lacrosse championships were larger than the FCS attendance - based on last years attendance at the D2/D3 games it would be. That is D2 and D3 I’m referencing there, let that sink in for a minute.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on May 29, 2018 21:32:39 GMT -5
For someone with such disdain for lacrosse you spend a great deal of time on threads discussing all the sport’s failings. That’s ok, people tend to fear the future/unknown. What you and every other alum should be truly fearful of is the annual cash flush (read: millions!) The College executes every year in supporting 1AA football at a school with the same enrollment numbers of NESCAC (D3) schools. The definition of stupidity is repeating the same thing over and over again with the expectation of different results. But again, I’m glad there are folks like you who think a return to the glory days of the 60’s and 70’s is still possible - nice for entertainment value. In the end my only point is that general interest in Lax isn't growing despite what some would like us to think. I haven't seen too many posters claim (or care) that Lax interest is growing. One poster's point was, I think, that lax interest must be shrinking because the attendance at the Division 1 Final Four, although similar to the last five years, is less than ten years ago. Notwithstanding that the combined attendance (D-1, 2, and 3 championships ) for the weekend is about the same as 10 years ago. I've been following boys lacrosse for years (it is unavoidable where I live), even played it as a little tyke, and it seems to be holding steady in the regions where it is popular. I wouldn't sweat it if it gains or loses in popularity a bit as all college sports do now and again. Another poster noted that few folks on an average street could name the college D-1 lacrosse champion. I noted that it depends on the street and added it was indeed similar in that regard to general knowledge of D-1 college soccer, FCS football, hockey, or baseball champions. All popular sports also. There were a couple of posters on another thread who noted we just completed very disappointing lax seasons at HC and would probably agree that on Mount Saint James (if not Yale, Duke, Wesleyan, etc.) interest might be waning. The posters did not seem to think (or for some reason want you to think) interest in Lax is growing at HC.
|
|
|
Post by tannerboyle on May 29, 2018 21:47:39 GMT -5
in terms of interest “waning” atop Mt St James - if anything is waning it should be alumni/current students/administration interest in a flailing athletic department. That place needs to form an identity, fast. Numbers don’t lie, be they dollar cost, fan attendance, W/L records, or general relevance. The school is literally throwing away money year in and year out for no other reason than to appease old timers who thirst for specific sport relevance that is NEVER going to happen.
They need to make some hard decisions in the AD’s and Presidents office - i just hope the correct decisions are made. If recent history proves correct (mascot and religious studies professor), perhaps faith in my alma mater - in any form - should be terminated.
But hey, we have a beating coming our way in a few months time on alumni field - courtesy of another athletic program with an identity crisis of its own - so we have that going for us.....which is nice.
|
|
|
Post by tannerboyle on May 29, 2018 21:55:56 GMT -5
Football is the quintessential college sport that unites a college’s alumni and supporters across the country. Agreed in part...holy cross should then petition to be dropped to D3 football where it can then compete with schools of similar resources/student bodies. “Unites a college’s alumni and supporters across the country”...apropos if you’re referencing a power 5 conference. I think you might want to re-examine Holy Cross post-college demographic. Swap out “football” with “basketball” for Holy Cross and you’d have that right.
|
|
|
Post by hcgrad94 on May 29, 2018 22:04:11 GMT -5
Spend rate!
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on May 29, 2018 22:25:56 GMT -5
I saw a few pics from Foxboro on my fb feed this weekend...30K at the Razor sounds like Hart Centah attendance exaggeration imo.
Kinda surprised....it is still the "new, bright shiny sport" that seems to be growing etc (in terms of participation anyway) but it may not be a great spectator sport...hard to see the ball much of the time etc
|
|
|
Post by gks on May 30, 2018 7:57:35 GMT -5
Lacrosse is like soccer in the 80s. The next sport to dethrone the big three in the US. I just don't see it.
I think what they had at Foxborough was a pretty good crowd. Had Yale and Albany there and Foxborough is a good distance away from the sports most popular area.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on May 30, 2018 8:15:16 GMT -5
Lacrosse is like soccer in the 80s. The next sport to dethrone the big three in the US. I just don't see it. I think what they had at Foxborough was a pretty good crowd. Had Yale and Albany there and Foxborough is a good distance away from the sports most popular area. I don't recall men's college soccer ever being popular in any region in the US. (But I do recall predictions about soccer overtaking one of the big three in national popularity given the youth participation rate nation wide).
College lacrosse is quite popular in some regions now (note the large weekend crowd at Foxborough) but I don't see any predictions at all that it will become more popular nation-wide than college football, baseball, or basketball. Nobody thinks professional lacrosse will challenge football, baseball, basketball, hockey, etc. etc. for viewership.
I do think women's college lacrosse continues to grow in popularity and in the certain colleges (in certain regions) ranks only behind basketball in terms of interest.
|
|
|
Post by JRGNYR on May 30, 2018 11:40:30 GMT -5
You could probably write a graduate school level research paper trying to explain why the game of lacrosse has grown so quickly yet FF weekend attendance is down from the all-time high in 2007.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on May 30, 2018 14:44:56 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with Tannerboyle's comment about HC needing to find an identity in athletics. Interest in our athletic program is quite possibly at an all time low. Rivalries, you know those games that really get the adrenaline flowing, are practically non-existent. I really hope Bob Chesney can bring some life back to an athletic program in desperate need of an injection of optimism.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on May 30, 2018 14:45:14 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with Tannerboyle's comment about HC needing to find an identity in athletics. Interest in our athletic program is quite possibly at an all time low. Rivalries, you know those games that really get the adrenaline flowing, are practically non-existent. I really hope Bob Chesney can bring some life back to an athletic program in desperate need of an injection of optimism.
|
|