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Post by HC92 on Aug 4, 2019 21:45:35 GMT -5
Newman with other offers from at least Western Illinois, Valpo, Lafayette, and Navy.
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Post by crosspride on Aug 5, 2019 7:47:23 GMT -5
Has there been any relationship between the perceived quality of the prospect and the order in which the offers have been made ? Apprximarely 150 offers. The 13 verbals represent offeree numbers 139, 142,135, 144,121, 148, 150, 151, 141. Thanks for this great input. So you’re saying the more recent guys to accept offers got those offers more recently and the earlier guys who accepted offers got those earlier. Interesting. This actually is great input. 9/13 verbals were not in the top 100 offers. Subsequent verbals have been 100+ as well. Obviously not an exact science as this won’t be the exact order they were offered but I can’t imagine it’s too far off. It would be better to get guys who were offered earlier and were therefore higher priority. While some of the early offers were reaches and guys that are going higher level, not all of them were. Does this mean that offer #150 will be awful and offer #5 will head to the NFL after 3 years? No of course not. But it’s a longer term recruiting trend worth watching imho. Thanks realism for bringing it up.
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Post by putter1 on Aug 5, 2019 10:34:20 GMT -5
I don't think the number has anything to do with it. Some players may have been to camp earlier than others, therefore have the advantage of being seen earlier. Some schools have spring football so coaches have the opportunity of seeing them early. Some players have been to camp as a junior so they have the advantage of being seen very early. Also, coaches work other camps i.e. Northwestern, UConn etc which are held earlier in the summer.
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Post by HC92 on Aug 5, 2019 10:37:35 GMT -5
Thanks for this great input. So you’re saying the more recent guys to accept offers got those offers more recently and the earlier guys who accepted offers got those earlier. Interesting. This actually is great input. 9/13 verbals were not in the top 100 offers. Subsequent verbals have been 100+ as well. Obviously not an exact science as this won’t be the exact order they were offered but I can’t imagine it’s too far off. It would be better to get guys who were offered earlier and were therefore higher priority. While some of the early offers were reaches and guys that are going higher level, not all of them were. Does this mean that offer #150 will be awful and offer #5 will head to the NFL after 3 years? No of course not. But it’s a longer term recruiting trend worth watching imho. Thanks realism for bringing it up. Realism is someone who only posts when he thinks he sees an opportunity to crap on HC. So, no, I don’t value his input. In the case of recruiting, it seems more important to look at the guys we get and what their credentials are. The fact that we shotgunned out a bunch of early offers to a lot of FBS-level players hoping to get a few doesn’t seem at all important. How many PL teams already have as many strong verbals as we do? Have we ever had this many verbals on August 5th? We will once again have a very strong recruiting class, regardless of when each guy got his offer or first reported his offer online.
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 5, 2019 10:53:16 GMT -5
Thanks HC92. Again as I stated above - HC has verbal commitments from #6, #7, #11, #13. So....there really isn't a method per se. It's when they've seen film, it's when they get the opportunity to get to that region of the country, it's when other kids come off the board and they have to continue to offer kids.
I'll use last year's class as an example. Dobbs - offer #119; Forrest #159; two of the most highly touted in a very highly touted class. I don't want to say the offer # is meaningless because I can't intelligently say that, but I'm really not sure it has to do with a whole heck of a lot.
They will get some kids in this class from the middle of the pack in terms of offer #.
16 verbals. 1 signal we are waiting on to make 17 (gut tells me it's a WR or TE).
Still need WR, TE, DT (2), K/P (2 are graduating, leaving only 2 on the roster), DE. Let's keep this train rolling.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 5, 2019 11:26:16 GMT -5
Thanks HC92. Again as I stated above - HC has verbal commitments from #6, #7, #11, #13. So....there really isn't a method per se. It's when they've seen film, it's when they get the opportunity to get to that region of the country, it's when other kids come off the board and they have to continue to offer kids. I'll use last year's class as an example. Dobbs - offer #119; Forrest #159; two of the most highly touted in a very highly touted class. I don't want to say the offer # is meaningless because I can't intelligently say that, but I'm really not sure it has to do with a whole heck of a lot. While the offer order is certainly an inexact way to judge recruits, it would be tough to argue that the quality of competing offers has not tailed off from where it was last year. It is a bit alarming that Bryant and Merrimack appear to be popping up more than MAC and IVY schools. Some offers for some of last year's commits (source: Twitter & Hero Sports): Forrest: Princeton, Harvard, Brown, Fordham, Colgate UNH, Kiessling: 8 MACs, (Miami U, Bowling Green, Ohio U, UMASS, Ball State, Akron, Buffalo), 2 IVYs (Columbia, Brown), Youngstown State, James Madison, Air Force Dobbs: Michigan (PWO), Dartmouth, Brown, Youngstown State, Fordham, Lehigh, Kreimer: Eastern Michigan, Akron, Elon, Fordham, Lafayette, 13 offers McMurtrie: Temple, Old Dominion, Central Michigan, Buffalo, UMASS, Western Michigan, Cornell Blessing: Ohio U, Kent State Morris: Kent State, Army, 10 offers Coulson: FIU, Air Force, 13 offers
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 5, 2019 11:39:53 GMT -5
I think that's a fair point. The quality and number of offers associated with last year's class on paper is more impressive. Jury still out with more slots to fill.
Helms, Spence, Schon, Lane and others with quality offers. Just not from MAC or Ivies. But none the less, right now it's a fair point. Last year's class was unreal. At the end of the day I think this class will be solid.
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Post by breezy on Aug 5, 2019 11:53:07 GMT -5
On the other hand, maybe (and just maybe, because I don't know and have no desire to find out) Bryant and Merrimack are starting to play the same game of reaching for recruits above their level in the hope that they will be able to land one or two recruits they would not otherwise. In my view, the fact that a recruit has an offer from Bryant has zero relevance to his desirability as a recruit.
There's another factor that may be in play (and again, I say "may be" because I do not have any information about this). The PL limit for football scholarships is 60. We often assume that this means 15 scholarships per year, but it does not have to be (and probably is not) balanced like that. For example, it could be, based on roster attrition or coaching decisions, 16 in one year and 14 in another year. And, again, the number of scholarships that are available will influence recruiting decisions. Thus, in theory, you might be more aggressive in the year when you have more scholarships available, and you might be less so when the number of scholarships in hand is smaller. Each recruiting cycle could be markedly different from the one before or the one that follows.
In short, IMO, making comparisons from year to year is not necessarily meaningful.
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Post by efg72 on Aug 5, 2019 11:54:37 GMT -5
I think that's a fair point. The quality and number of offers associated with last year's class on paper is more impressive. Jury still out with more slots to fill. Helms, Spence, Schon, Lane and others with quality offers. Just not from MAC or Ivies. But none the less, right now it's a fair point. Last year's class was unreal. At the end of the day I think this class will be solid. Not sure what I am about to suggest is accurate but Until a team becomes a program , proves it can win and contend for the playoffs year after year it might be tough to recruit at or above the level of players who came in the year before. Kids want to play immediately and will often select a program that provides them with that unique opportunity. we love the school, know all the history and tradition and value those positive experiences that come from a HC education, but my bet is that is not universally shared or appreciated across the various regions of the country-that takes time and returning to a winning program will help accelerate the change most want to see.
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Post by dharry13 on Aug 5, 2019 11:59:09 GMT -5
No doubt about it. Last year's class on paper was impressive regarding the offers they received and from where. That doesn't mean in any way shape or form that will result in success on the field. Heck - I've already heard great things about Thomas - the WR last year - who's only other offer seemed to be Lafayette (he may not have tweeted about others).
That all said - if you layer solid class on top of solid class - at least on paper - it should result in wins on the field. Most importantly PL wins, a PL championship and a consistent spot in the FCS playoffs.
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Post by matunuck on Aug 5, 2019 12:00:23 GMT -5
Interesting that a school like Merrimack with a relatively small endowment found it in their long-term interest to go D-I in all sports, particularly football --
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Post by cmo on Aug 5, 2019 12:23:13 GMT -5
Says everything about the current roster’s happiness with the program dare I say, “tells us everything we need to know.”
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 5, 2019 17:23:15 GMT -5
IIRC, the last five or so recruits from last year's class had few offers from schools in the upper echelons of FCS. Exception may have been the placekicker, who I thought was a steal.
My suspicion is that those offered full rides, or nearly so $-wise, are over-represented in the earlier offers because HC is competing with schools offering full rides.
I have posited in the past that to get a class of 20-21 receiving financial aid, maybe ten receive full schoolies, and the rest partials. The 60 scollie cap in the PL, and the FCS cap of no more than 85 receiving any amount of fin aid, dictate that. I believe richh remarked that Lehigh loaded up on the fulls, and subsequently had depth issues as players went down with injuries.
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Post by richh on Aug 5, 2019 17:34:22 GMT -5
IIRC, the last five or so recruits from last year's class had few offers from schools in the upper echelons of FCS. Exception may have been the placekicker, who I thought was a steal. My suspicion is that those offered full rides, or nearly so $-wise, are over-represented in the earlier offers because HC is competing with schools offering full rides. I have posited in the past that to get a class of 20-21 receiving financial aid, maybe ten receive full schoolies, and the rest partials. The 60 scollie cap in the PL, and the FCS cap of no more than 85 receiving any amount of fin aid, dictate that. I believe richh remarked that Lehigh loaded up on the fulls, and subsequently had depth issues as players went down with injuries. Lehigh is still building back.Andy loaded 2 classes with full rides. Program sidetracked when his illness took more of his attention. TG brought in 34 this year. A good amount of talent atvthe top but a lot of PWOs and WOs. Dire need for bodies. Still at 84 tho. A lot of PWOs and WOs quit and a couple of schollie kids transferred. We will have another large class next year.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 5, 2019 17:53:46 GMT -5
It sounds like a rough start for HCTG...unless he wanted those folks to leave to open up spots for better players. That would give these turnovers a different meaning.
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Post by richh on Aug 5, 2019 18:10:01 GMT -5
It sounds like a rough start for HCTG...unless he wanted those folks to leave to open up spots for better players. That would give these turnovers a different meaning. TG runs a much different style than Coen. More rules. A 5th yr WR quit as he didnt like the rules. A DE from Ga and a LB from NCar left.Dont know why. WOs left after Spring practice.All told 12 left. We are very young. Frosh and Sophs are over 1/2 the squad.
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Post by efg72 on Aug 5, 2019 18:18:59 GMT -5
It sounds like a rough start for HCTG...unless he wanted those folks to leave to open up spots for better players. That would give these turnovers a different meaning. TG runs a much different style than Coen. More rules. A 5th yr WR quit as he didnt like the rules. A DE from Ga and a LB from NCar left.Dont know why. WOs left after Spring practice.All told 12 left. We are very young. Frosh and Sophs are over 1/2 the squad. Called rebuilding a culture of discipline and winning-he will get it done over time
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Post by hcpride on Aug 5, 2019 18:34:09 GMT -5
It sounds like a rough start for HCTG...unless he wanted those folks to leave to open up spots for better players. That would give these turnovers a different meaning. TG runs a much different style than Coen. More rules. A 5th yr WR quit as he didnt like the rules. A DE from Ga and a LB from NCar left.Dont know why. WOs left after Spring practice.All told 12 left. We are very young. Frosh and Sophs are over 1/2 the squad. TG has many positive qualities but the last few years I had the distinct impression his personality/style was not necessarily going over well with recruits and players at HC. Contributing to losing seasons. Lehigh may very well have seen it differently as they did bring TG on board.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 5, 2019 19:10:39 GMT -5
He is a bright man who, I believe, can learn from past mistakes. We'll see.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 5, 2019 19:43:35 GMT -5
It sounds like a rough start for HCTG...unless he wanted those folks to leave to open up spots for better players. That would give these turnovers a different meaning. The same thing happened at HC. Two years later, we had our 2nd winning season in 13 years, and then reeled off 7 consecutive winning seasons and a PLC.
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Post by crossbball13 on Aug 5, 2019 20:58:50 GMT -5
It sounds like a rough start for HCTG...unless he wanted those folks to leave to open up spots for better players. That would give these turnovers a different meaning. The same thing happened at HC. Two years later, we had our 2nd winning season in 13 years, and then reeled off 7 consecutive winning seasons and a PLC. But winning the PLC that infrequently won’t cut it. Like Coach D in baseball. Not that many teams involved.
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Post by richh on Aug 5, 2019 21:05:10 GMT -5
He is a bright man who, I believe, can learn from past mistakes. We'll see. Seems true. One of the things he remarked when he came in was all the new ideas he learned in his time at Wake. The practices we run now are adapted fron his experince at Wake. He has a a unique benefit at Lehigh. He inherited a team with a lot of talent particularly in the senior class. Andy's last 2 years, in retrospect ,reflected his loss of acuity. The program lost its way and culture in that time. The talent was there but not the will. Capped by last year's disaster. We 'll see how far Tom succeeds in a month.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 5, 2019 21:18:34 GMT -5
The same thing happened at HC. Two years later, we had our 2nd winning season in 13 years, and then reeled off 7 consecutive winning seasons and a PLC. But winning the PLC that infrequently won’t cut it. Like Coach D in baseball. Not that many teams involved. Agree, but a huge stretch to lump Gilmore in with Dicenzo. Apples and tractor trailer trucks. In his first 8 years Gilmore won a PLC and had 4 2nd place finishes. Of course more PLCs would have been nice, but I think HC fans may be too quick to think he’s not a good coach.
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Post by hc87 on Aug 5, 2019 22:59:43 GMT -5
It will be interesting....Gilmore ended up being an abject disaster at a scholarship Holy Cross imo...very curious how he does at Lehigh
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Post by crossbball13 on Aug 6, 2019 4:46:34 GMT -5
But winning the PLC that infrequently won’t cut it. Like Coach D in baseball. Not that many teams involved. Agree, but a huge stretch to lump Gilmore in with Dicenzo. Apples and tractor trailer trucks. In his first 8 years Gilmore won a PLC and had 4 2nd place finishes. Of course more PLCs would have been nice, but I think HC fans may be too quick to think he’s not a good coach. Hasn’t baseball finished second a bunch too? They also went to the NCAA’s for the first time in 40 years or something like that. It’s not very dissimilar.
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