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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2018 16:08:31 GMT -5
Is it time to consider this as a possibility? We are in a football conference that is pathetic and the possibility that it will improve dramatically is at least questionable if not totally doubtful. Apparently we cannot afford quality coordinators (this years OC as the poster child). I look at the balance of the home schedule and just can’t excited about watching 2 teams at 1-6 this weekend. The November 10 game versus Fordham - they lost to Bryant - is so unappealing. I have had season tickets almost every year for a really long time but I am worn out. Is it time to reallocate funds? Nate Pine - time for a gut check. Status quo is just awful - new coach or not - too many losses for too many years. New coach is scared - new OC is awful. And even a win versus a terrible Lehigh team does not make this better. Time to make some hard decisions. For me, fall golf is the new way to go. I have been a season ticket holder for over 40 years. Over the past 2 or 3 years, I have attended 3 or 4 games of the 5 game home schedule, but I have left at half time, because the quality has been so poor. I was reneging on buying season tickets this year, but I broke down and renewed them again. However, I have yet to attend one game. I had a conflict with the Yale game, but, not with the Dartmouth or Bucknell games. I can not see myself driving 70 miles one way to watch a high school like game. Based on what I have read in the game summaries, the quality this year is much worse than it has been the last few years. I doubt if I will attend the last 2 games. I agree with hc80, the administration must revisit this program and start making some hard nosed decisions. I have one added note. Scheduling FBS schools was a big mistake. This should only happen if Holy Cross is a consistent winner at the FCS level. I have heard that it helps with recruiting, but I seriously doubt it. Responding to your post as a whole,
MUCH RESPECT for the alumni who have been following / played for / held season tickets for 30, 40 or 50 years. You guys are the lifeblood of HC athletics. One thing I've noticed over the last football season or two is a number of elder alumni vocally throwing in the towel when it comes to continuing to follow the team or renew tickets. Considering everyone who graduated prior to the PL era lived through the 1990's when we were absolutely horrible, why is it that NOW is the time to jump ship? Has the straw finally broken the camel's back, as they say? You guys lived through 1-10 seasons, nail-biters against Fairfield, losses to schools like St. Mary's, San Diego and upstart Florida Atlantic, seasons where we opened with an FBS win before winding up 3-8 (2002), massive losing streaks against traditional FCS rivals. Sure, the last 5 years of the Gilmore regime were pretty gut-wrenching, but with the coaching change, is all hope completely lost at this point? If so, why?
Coming from a "spoilt" young alum who hopped on the bandwagon in 2006 just as football was on the (short term) rise.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Oct 23, 2018 16:37:41 GMT -5
We can return to our winning ways with high quality recruits who are also good students. However, we also need a quality staff, i.e., OC!! The result will be winning seasons and athletes/students like Jimmy Murray, on the other thread, who made the NFL.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 23, 2018 16:45:24 GMT -5
Insanity that this thread has reached two pages.
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Post by joe on Oct 23, 2018 16:52:17 GMT -5
On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is the FCS toilet and 10 is FCS national championship level play, we were maybe at an 8 at or around 08 and 09 and are now maybe at a 2, the only thing keeping us from a 1 being the Yale win. If we blow out every team the rest of the year we’ll still be a 2, as our remaining opponents are horrific. This scenario does not bode well for anyone other than players and player parents to give a s**t about Holy Cross football. What exactly have people seen this year that makes them optimistic for the future?
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Post by thecrossisback on Oct 23, 2018 17:04:42 GMT -5
As I said earlier, I am a season ticket holder at 19 and will continue to renew my tickets. Yes this losing Sucks. They will turn it around, why have they stunk this year. NO quarterback. Hopefully the new Qb Chris Butash will turn things around.
But HC needs to do way more marketing to get people to the games. People were talking about Colgate success, but look how small the numbers of fans are. HC has a giant demographic of people in the area and if they marketed like the Railers, people would go. Get the students and student athletes involved with the community. Everybody is going to say well its FCS football who cares. I just went to the Railers against an expansion team from Maine and over 8,000 people were there to watch ECHL hockey. People will come if they have a reason to come. Nice new stadium and night games. Talking to somebody at the Bucknell game said, you know why charge people? They have enough money, let people go the games free of charge. Would draw more people.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 23, 2018 17:35:53 GMT -5
If my memory serves, Princeton did not charge for f-ball tickets? Free admissions might be a good idea. I don't think the cost of tickets has anything to do with overall (lack of) interest in the program.
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Post by thecrossisback on Oct 23, 2018 17:43:10 GMT -5
If my memory serves, Princeton did not charge for f-ball tickets? Free admissions might be a good idea. I don't think the cost of tickets has anything to do with overall (lack of) interest in the program. Never know, tickets are not cheap for single game tickets. Plus only few students are at the games. They should have almost all of them their to support the team. If the team supports their activities. They should support the team. The basketball team has done a very good job supporting the team. Have seen them at the BC game, the Harvard game and multiple home games.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 23, 2018 18:03:31 GMT -5
Below is the highest level of football experience of lowly Georgetown's coaching staff (only ten coaches)
Head coach NFL (three seasons) Toronto Argonauts (two seasons), then GU for 18 years as an asst. OC Clemson, Syracuse, Temple DC Harvard UConn Special Teams C GU grad, coached in Europe, Brazil Asst Coach, GU is his first coaching job Asst coach Tiffin U (wherever that is) Asst Coach Akron, Liberty Asst coach / Video Coordinator (Clemson, no football, previously GU, asst recruiting coordinator, DFO) Asst coach Moravian (2015 grad Lehigh) Asst coach, UVA, NFL (nine years)
____________________________ With respect to Rick Carter and Dayton, Dayton was occasionally an HC opponent in the decades before Dayton dropped from Div I to Div III in 1977, which was Carter's first year. I assume that Div I players continued to be rostered until they graduated. That should not diminish his outstanding 14-0 record in 1980, after which he came to HC.
Carter played QB at Earlham for four years (29-3 record). After graduation, he went on to coach Earlham.
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Post by jflare on Oct 23, 2018 18:28:07 GMT -5
Must I again go into my 120 years of football at HC history lesson. There have been ups and downs since 1898 and football at HC is bigger and larger than any of us. Stop being so egocentric and realize that it is part of who we are and we will be playing this game for the next 120 years. It is not about 2018 it's bigger than all of us and part of the soul of the college.
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Post by inhocsigno on Oct 23, 2018 18:34:25 GMT -5
This thread pops up every few years and I usually spend too much time responding based on my emotional connection to the football program. In fact, I feel more connected to the football program than HC as a whole. That is my personal experience, and is probably not true for most people. I won't get into how I think that football is essential to the real college experience, and dropping same would have serious negative consequences for the long term health of HC.
I can understand the financial argument against football at any school outside of the P5. However, there is a lot more involved and achieved by football programs than simply economic gain or loss. There are school spirit, profile and admissions issues that are tied to sports.
There was an article in national publication today about how most college sports (excluding football and basketball) are essentially affirmative action programs for wealthy white kids. I for one would rather HC focus all (or most of the resources) on football and basketball (plus Title IX women sports), and drop some of the other sports to club level. I would rather watch a 6-5 football team than watch a Chad, Biff, Tripp or other Lax Bro score a goal.
We just need to win, and the administration needs to take whatever steps are necessary to accomplish that goal. If that means leaving the PL, or forcing the league's hand on rules, or whatever the case may be, it needs to happen, or HC will continue to be essentially a school with a limited national reputation. We are not a top 10 school in any measure that potential applicants view. We have continually regressed in national academic rankings since the Brooks' decision. If the professed goal of the decision was to focus on academics, that goal has not been reached and maybe it is time to go in the other direction. I say, lets get the best players we can get regardless of their academic records (provided they qualify per NCAA rules), and let the rest play out. Winning at FB and BB will increase national recognition, and thus, increase applicants.
On another note, this thread/discussion is certainly not going to help recruiting or accomplishing the goal we all want - a winning program.
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82
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Post by wstruz71 on Oct 23, 2018 18:43:30 GMT -5
nycrusader2010I agree a lot of us older alumni sat through dismal seasons in the past. However, the competition and quality back then was also a lot keener. We got to see a lot of good teams. I remember Holy Cross playing Boston College, UConn, Rutgers, Temple, UMass, etc. all in one season. The Patriotic League did not exist back in the 1970's and 80's. I remember there was one season where Holy Cross only won one game, and that was against Brown.
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Post by spenser on Oct 23, 2018 21:09:04 GMT -5
Insanity that this thread has reached two pages. Absolutely. Last year at this time this topic was heresy. Give it a few years. Then, as I said earlier, it makes sense to have this discussion. It not now!!!
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Post by spenser on Oct 24, 2018 7:15:28 GMT -5
I believe that HC football has a very bright future under the leadership of this exciting young coach. LoveHC Me too.
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Post by joe on Oct 24, 2018 7:28:04 GMT -5
I believe that HC football has a very bright future under the leadership of this exciting young coach. LoveHC Me too. Hope so, but I expected to see a few more glimmers of hope, something new and different, more than just the superficial stuff (uniforms, social media, etc.). I thought I saw something vs Yale, especially during the OT, but really nothing since. Maybe we hung with Yale due to their lack of game film, poor conditioning, and it being an early season game. I had low expectations for this season, but not this low. Still, I have high expectations for the future but at the same time I'm acutely aware of what seems to be a widening gap between our current trajectory (and that of the PL in general) vs the trajectory all parties have been hoping for. We may run up some points the rest of the season, but the teams we're playing are among the worst in D1. Just being real. I'm not as optimistic for the future of the program now, compared to 2 and a half months ago. How Colgate does what they do is impressive, considering they have what seems little to no fan support, even at home games, and even during great seasons like this. This is the program we are striving to emulate? We need to look at some of the upper academic CAA schools if we want a real lesson, even the larger BCS schools with good academic reps. HC still seems to be throwing punches in the dark.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 24, 2018 10:33:18 GMT -5
If my memory serves, Princeton did not charge for f-ball tickets? Free admissions might be a good idea. I remember when each student received a book of tickets (one to each home football game) on the first day on campus. I have to believe it helped attendance. Those who had friend going could get them tickets from classmates who were not going. IIRC most tickets were used.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 24, 2018 10:37:49 GMT -5
Joe,
Were you not happy with the second h as of effort against Harvard? A loss is a loss but we had the Crimson on the ropes. We have not won in Cambridge since 2000.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 24, 2018 10:48:21 GMT -5
And I remember not just the free football tickets to home games but being an usher and getting something like $5 to do it and think I recall eating early lunch at Kimball when ushering. Easy job as games were never sold out and people either knew where they were going or sat wherever they wanted. Kind of like now.😊
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 24, 2018 11:03:25 GMT -5
And I remember not just the free football tickets to home games but being an usher and getting something like $5 to do it and think I recall eating early lunch at Kimball when ushering. Easy job as games were never sold out and people either knew where they were going or sat wherever they wanted. Kind of like now.😊 I remember being an usher (giving my ticket to my date) and getting $2 a game along with a better "seat" around the 50 yard line. (That was instead of the 20 were HC Had our sent section). It did not matter since there really were no bad views (I can't say bad "seats" since what we sat on was never "good") Ah...good times!
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Post by matunuck on Oct 24, 2018 11:15:14 GMT -5
Won't happen but the NCAA should let FBS schools play at FCS stadiums as they see fit. Sure most won't but a few may be game under the right conditions. Right now, a waiver/permission must be granted, I believe (If I'm wrong, I know a poster will correct me:) ). Army at Yale was terrific. What's more, the NFL has a long-term vested interest in keeping FCS football and broader interest in FCS-level football alive IMO. If I were in the NFL's shoes, I'd push behind the scenes for a much healthier FCS system than the current one we have.
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Post by joe on Oct 24, 2018 11:42:00 GMT -5
Joe, Were you not happy with the second h as of effort against Harvard? A loss is a loss but we had the Crimson on the ropes. We have not won in Cambridge since 2000.
Yes, that was also a highlight, and technically the second half against Colgate, to give credit where credit is due.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 24, 2018 12:41:10 GMT -5
Won't happen but the NCAA should let FBS schools play at FCS stadiums as they see fit. Sure most won't but a few may be game under the right conditions. Right now, a waiver/permission must be granted, I believe (If I'm wrong, I know a poster will correct me:) ). Army at Yale was terrific. What's more, the NFL has a long-term vested interest in keeping FCS football and broader interest in FCS-level football alive IMO. If I were in the NFL's shoes, I'd push behind the scenes for a much healthier FCS system than the current one we have. NCAA regulation-wise, there is nothing preventing FBS schools from scheduling home-and-home, away or neutral site games against FCS teams. However, there is rarely any financial incentive for either party to arrange for this to happen.
Except for cases where schools are transitioning between divisions, there are very few documented cases of established FBS schools going on the road against FCS in the last 30 years:
Navy and Delaware played a home-and-home in the early 1990's - I know this because my grandfather USNA '51 broke into the visitor's locker room at The Tub and berated the team after a loss. He was then escorted out by stadium security.
Army @ Yale in 2014 to commemorate 100th anniversary of Yale Bowl.
Idaho and Montana played home and home for a while after Idaho moved up to FBS.
JMU and West Virginia played a neutral site game at FedEx Field in Landover a couple years ago -- not sure who was considered the home team.
Villanova/Temple - They play at the Link every year but not sure if Temple is considered the home team for all games. Probably closest thing to a legit FBS/FCS rivalry.
The waiver you speak of in conjunction with Yale-Army had to do not with the game's location but the fact that Army was playing a non-scholarship school. In order for Army to count a win against Yale towards their six needed for bowl eligibility, this waiver was needed. Didn't matter as they lost anyway. In a funnier side note, Army beat UConn at Yankee Stadium a few weeks later and a couple of Cadet friends and I started a "Yale is better" chant behind a section of Husky fans as time dwindled.
Maybe BC will come to Fitton (or Fitton's successor) in 2086 for the 100th anniversary of the last game in Worcester.
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Post by matunuck on Oct 24, 2018 13:13:08 GMT -5
Many thanks for the info 2010. I get the financial aspect, but I guess my point is that over the long-term a healthy FCS is very important to football for a variety of reasons. Right now, the FCS isn't in great shape.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 24, 2018 13:26:09 GMT -5
Joe, Were you not happy with the second h as of effort against Harvard? A loss is a loss but we had the Crimson on the ropes. We have not won in Cambridge since 2000.
Yes, that was also a highlight, and technically the second half against Colgate, to give credit where credit is due.
We've had some very good plays and even some excellent offensive and defensive series this year.
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Post by bikeman on Oct 24, 2018 17:48:42 GMT -5
The Colgate game should be the last game of the year, every year. Schedule all non conference play before league play. And,for Gods sake, admit athletes who are interested in playing for HC who aren't class valedictorians. Give them a chance. Put lights in Fitton and start every home game at 3 or 7pm. Every high school in Massachusetts has lights for crying out loud. Lobby hard to reorganize eastern FCS football. The PL is the biggest drawback as EVERYONE except the HC PTB knows.
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Post by joe on Oct 24, 2018 17:53:22 GMT -5
The Colgate game should be the last game of the year, every year. Schedule all non conference play before league play. And,for Gods sake, admit athletes who are interested in playing for HC who aren't class valedictorians. Give them a chance. Put lights in Fitton and start every home game at 3 or 7pm. Every high school in Massachusetts has lights for crying out loud. Lobby hard to reorganize eastern FCS football. The PL is the biggest drawback as EVERYONE except the HC PTB knows. Succinct and accurate.
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