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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 1, 2019 13:49:26 GMT -5
As Carmody’s fourth season at HC comes to a close with a big game tomorrow to jockey for position in the PL Pig Pen, I wanted to take a look back at how Carmody’s HC performance compares with his Northwestern performance. In a season where 5 PL losses would have been good enough for a tie for 1st place, and just having a record above .500 would have comfortably qualified for 4th place and a home tournament game, HC’s results have been absolutely dreadful. There has been a growing trend of poor performance in conference games, and in particular games on the road. Carmody has his preferred system and style of plan, and it is extremely rare for him to move away from that singular system/style. When you play teams twice in the same year, and then year-after-year with that same style, it becomes very easy for opposing coaches to get their team prepared. When HC doesn’t have a counter for what opponents are prepared for, the players on the floor are essentially screwed. To understand if there is a chance that the results through these first four years would improve, there is an ample data set from Carmody’s 13 years at Northwestern to use as a benchmark:
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| Total HC |
| --- |
| Total NW |
| | vs Top: | Wins | Losses | W% | | Wins | Losses | W% | | 4 | 6 | 25 | .194 | | 16 | 68 | .190 | | 5 | 9 | 28 | .243 | | 22 | 82 | .212 | | 6 | 11 | 32 | .256 | | 25 | 98 | .203 | | 7 | 14 | 37 | .275 | | 29 | 112 | .206 | | OVERALL | 28 | 43 | .394 |
| 70 | 150 | .318 |
Amazingly, these numbers are strikingly similar, particularly against opponents in the top 4 of the league with only 0.4% separating his time at HC from Northwestern. Despite the win at Lehigh last weekend, we have seen a very consistent struggle to win on the road, so how does that compare:
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| Road HC |
| --- |
| Road NW |
| | vs Top: | Wins | Losses | W% | | Wins | Losses | W% | | 4 | 1 | 15 | .063 | | 3 | 38 | .073 | | 5 | 2 | 17 | .105 | | 4 | 48 | .077 | | 6 | 3 | 19 | .136 | | 4 | 57 | .066 | | 7 | 3 | 23 | .115 | | 6 | 65 | .085 | | OVERALL | 9 | 27 | .250 |
| 51 | 89 | .191 |
Again, very similar results, but somehow slightly worse against the top 4 teams in the PL than the top 4 teams in the Big 10. How could this look any worse? Carmody's last 4 teams at Northwestern actually took a step back from his first 4 teams.
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| Total NW-First 4 |
| --- |
| Total NW-Last 4 |
| | vs Top: | Wins | Losses | W% | | Wins | Losses | W% | | 4 | 7 | 18 | .280 | | 3 | 21 | .125 | | 5 | 9 | 22 | .290 | | 5 | 25 | .167 | | 6 | 11 | 24 | .314 | | 6 | 32 | .158 | | 7 | 13 | 29 | .310 | | 7 | 35 | .167 | | OVERALL | 21 | 43 | .394 |
| 26 | 46 | .361 |
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| Road NW-First 4 |
| --- |
| Road NW-Last 4 |
| | vs Top: | Wins | Losses | W% | | Wins | Losses | W% | | 4 | 1 | 11 | .083 | | 0 | 12 | .000 | | 5 | 1 | 14 | .067 | | 0 | 15 | .000 | | 6 | 1 | 16 | .059 | | 0 | 19 | .000 | | 7 | 2 | 19 | .095 | | 1 | 20 | .048 | | OVERALL | 5 | 27 | .156 |
| 8 | 28 | .191 |
I would be interested to hear how anyone could say that Carmody should be brought back next year give the amount of evidence that is piling up to show that what we’ve seen so far has been exactly what Carmody’s been for the past 17 seasons, and what we are going to continue to see going forward. You are simply never going to be able to be a top team in your league if you cannot (1) compete with the top teams and (2) win on the road. Carmody has now shown that he has no ability to do either of those things. |
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Post by possum on Mar 1, 2019 14:12:45 GMT -5
Hard to argue against those numbers. The thought that if Carmody doesn't retire we have to live with him for another year because there is no AD in place and we have to deal with the Women's issue is ludicrous. It's pretty obvious at this point things are not going to change and wasting another year is not the way to go. Hopefully those in charge will get it right on their fourth try at replacing Willard.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 1, 2019 14:29:47 GMT -5
Hell of job some people must have to be able to spend time in the middle of the day putting together a color-coded spread sheet to keep hammering away at the same railroad spike.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 1, 2019 14:43:17 GMT -5
I wonder if the author ever had a family member suffering from cancer.
i question the timing of this insensitive thread
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 1, 2019 14:49:49 GMT -5
Agreed. I would also question the logic of posting numbers over and over trying to convince others that the current HC coach is unfit. If stats alone could change minds, don't you think they would have by now?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 1, 2019 14:51:04 GMT -5
I wonder if the author ever had a family member suffering from cancer. i question the timing of this insensitive thread Absolutely ridiculous. The title of the thread matches the factual stats that are included in the post. If you don't want to read it, don't click on it. It's very simple. There is nothing personal about anything that was written, and it's ridiculous to bring in something that has absolutely nothing to do with a basketball topic. |
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Post by hchoops on Mar 1, 2019 14:54:47 GMT -5
The head basketball coach, about whom your thread is about, has a wife currently being treated for a cancer serious enough for him to miss games. That is personal.
You did not answer my question.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 1, 2019 14:56:48 GMT -5
The head basketball coach, about whom your thread is about, has a wife currently being treated for a cancer serious enough for him to miss games. That is personal. You did not answer my question. This is about the last 17 years, and new numbers that I had not seen until this week. Logical minds can separate those two things. |
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Post by hchoops on Mar 1, 2019 14:58:09 GMT -5
Logical sometimes includes some sensitivity.
The question remains unanswered.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 1, 2019 15:16:16 GMT -5
I wonder if the author ever had a family member suffering from cancer. i question the timing of this insensitive thread How are posting his win / loss records insensitive? It's just a fact. Is HC now not able to make a decision whether to fire or retain him based on his personal life? |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 1, 2019 15:24:07 GMT -5
The question is not if they "can" since that is always a possibility (as we saw with two previous coaches). The question is whether they "should" and a number of factors come in here, including his family and the existence of a current contract. If Holy Cross is an institution that boasts of creating men and women who are "for others" wouldn't this be a good chance to set an example of what that can mean in the real world?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 1, 2019 15:26:24 GMT -5
If Holy Cross is an institution that boasts of creating men and women who are "for others" wouldn't this be a good chance to set an example of what that can mean in the real world? If this is the mindset, then say goodbye to competitive athletics. |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 1, 2019 15:29:42 GMT -5
Interesting spin, but IMHO..nonsense. If you like the mindset of "kick them when they are down" if it will bring in a few more wins, then say goodbye to the reputation of Holy Cross.
PS: That post os good example of "creating a straw man."
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 1, 2019 15:43:14 GMT -5
Interesting spin, but IMHO..nonsense. If you like the mindset of "kick them when they are down" if it will bring in a few more wins, then say goodbye to the reputation of Holy Cross. PS: That post os good example of "creating a straw man." So let me get this straight: We've got multiple instances of faculty members sexually abusing and/or sexually harassing students, but it will be letting go of a basketball coach who has dramatically underperformed in the final year of a 5-year, $1.5M+ contract that will ruin the reputation of Holy Cross? (rhetorical question)
--- How about getting back to the topic of this thread. If that does not interest anyone, there is no need to post and this thread can float behind all of the other threads that are relaying tweets about recruits. |
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 1, 2019 15:44:55 GMT -5
I have to respectfully disagree, RGS. Is it insensitive for a man to be dealing with these issues on the personal front to have to see Crossports repeatedly call for his job? Probably, yes. But is the information posted just a fact too? Yes-- and facts that BC is responsible for.
I think you're beyond insinuating that Holy Cross, as a place that has a reputation of being, and producing, high-quality character people, should not hold people accountable for their jobs if their personal lives are experiencing great hardships. I think there are more pragmatic ways to do that.
For example, the college is not firing the coach because he is not traveling to select road games as he opts to stay close to home and care for his wife. That is admirable, and that is reasonable, compassionate leeway on behalf of HC. Letter of the law? He's not reporting for duty at those times. We all would agree HC and Coach BC are doing the right thing, the thing that matters more than simply "job" or "basketball."
However, to say more generally that the college has to employ a coach who has a losing record in 17 years as a professional because his wife is dealing with that same hardship is, in my mind, a different story.
If the stats presented in BBC's post crossed my desk as part of a resume, the person wouldn't come close to being hired for the job.
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Post by crosspride on Mar 1, 2019 15:48:04 GMT -5
Hell of job some people must have to be able to spend time in the middle of the day putting together a color-coded spread sheet to keep hammering away at the same railroad spike. You responded during the middle of the work day. |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 1, 2019 16:07:27 GMT -5
Because it's relevant --
Through 71 PL regular season games, Carmody is 28-43. Milan Brown was 36-35.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 1, 2019 16:09:25 GMT -5
Hell of job some people must have to be able to spend time in the middle of the day putting together a color-coded spread sheet to keep hammering away at the same railroad spike. You responded during the middle of the work day. I made a 15 sec response. I didn't do research and present on a colorful spreadsheet to repeat the same mantra. |
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Post by crosspride on Mar 1, 2019 16:10:04 GMT -5
It is extremely unfortunate that Carmody’s wife is suffering from cancer at this time. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.
Seems like it would be best for all parties that Carmody step away from the demanding coaching profession at this time. It’s a high profile job, and as with any sport, there are numbers to analyze and fans are allowed to have opinions.
Hchoops- if you think that any discussion of performance related to CBC is inappropriate at this time, I would recommend sending a note to the holy cross athletic department recommending CBC step down. Posting facts about his job performance would, of course, stop. If he were to come back for another year, there would undoubtedly be more posts with basketball statistics and coaching performance indicators on this basketball forum.
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