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Post by moose1970 on Jun 3, 2019 10:17:09 GMT -5
As far as a Syracuse game prediction goes it'll be probably along the lines of BC last year wherein Syracuse will score on most of its early drives, open up a big lead, freely substitute 2nd and 3rd string, and we'll score a relatively meaningless touchdown or two. Coach Chesney v BC wisely limited our passes and kept the clock moving while getting in a good number of players so I would expect the same this year. (This is assuming that Syracuse's coach is thinking along the lines of Addazio.) sad but true. if i recall correctly v BC last year not only did we limit passing to keep the game clock moving we also ran down the possession clock before each snap on offense to eat up as much time as possible and get the heck off the field where we clearly did not belong. some "game" huh??? 2019 Crusader game plan v Syracuse: 1- no one get hurt; 2- take the money and run. again, sad but true.
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Post by hc87 on Jun 3, 2019 11:02:56 GMT -5
While I don't disagree with your overall thesis moose, i.e. these games are basically a $$$-grab....but I'd also argue that they provide much of the "oxygen" in the form of not only $$$ but visibility, recruiting, alumni/community interest etc for FCS programs today.
FCS programs that are "up and running on all cylinders" like we hope ours will be at some point, can play relatively competitive games with even some of the better FBS programs some years. NDSU is an outlier in many ways at the FCS-level but they have beaten Big 12 programs repeatedly this decade...basically to the point that they won't schedule the Bison anymore.
I highly doubt we evah approach that level of success given our PL restraints, but we should be able to put a team on the field that doesn't have to run into the line 3 straight times and punt repeatedly against suitable FBS opponents moving forward imo.
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Post by moose1970 on Jun 3, 2019 12:00:03 GMT -5
While I don't disagree with your overall thesis moose, i.e. these games are basically a $$$-grab....but I'd also argue that they provide much of the "oxygen" in the form of not only $$$ but visibility, recruiting, alumni/community interest etc for FCS programs today. FCS programs that are "up and running on all cylinders" like we hope ours will be at some point, can play relatively competitive games with even some of the better FBS programs some years. NDSU is an outlier in many ways at the FCS-level but they have beaten Big 12 programs repeatedly this decade...basically to the point that they won't schedule the Bison anymore. I highly doubt we evah approach that level of success given our PL restraints, but we should be able to put a team on the field that doesn't have to run into the line 3 straight times and punt repeatedly against suitable FBS opponents moving forward imo. " I highly doubt we evah approach that level of success..." = slim & none. emphasis on none. (but i do appreciate being given credit for a "moose thesis". i feel redeemed!)
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 3, 2019 13:47:10 GMT -5
Again, to put things into perspective, here are the scores against Syracuse when we were "at the same level" as them in the 60's ( ) (i.e. never). Year/Syracuse/HC '68/47-0 '67/41-7 '66/28-6 '65/32-6 '64/34-8 '63/48-0 '62/30-20 '61/34-6 '60/15-6 Not a win in the bunch and most were lopsided scores. I don't recall a lot of Crusader fans calling for the end of that series as the Orange was usually nationally ranked or at least #1 or #2 in the Northeast - usually fighting Penn State for those honors. Two seasons after the hepatitis cancelled season, things got worse in '71 with a 63-21 thumping. Pretty sure that's when HC decided "no mas!" So, will Holy Cross win this year? Only a miracle greater than the '42 win over BC could get that accomplished. Losing by 40 or more points? How would that be any worse than the '68 or '63 season when we were on an "equal footing" (note the quotes). And this time, we get a big payday and some needed name recognition. Syracuse can name the score now, no question. The only question in my mind is, is the current Syracuse coach like "Roll 'em up Benny" who showed no mercy - ever - because the bigger the win, the higher up they went in the rankings. The one thing I am sure of, our guys will not quit regardless of the score. They didn't quit against BC. They won't quit against Syracuse. Maybe win a little respect.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 3, 2019 14:08:07 GMT -5
Again, to put things into perspective, here are the scores against Syracuse when we were "at the same level" as them in the 60's ( ) (i.e. never). Year/Syracuse/HC '68/47-0 '67/41-7 '66/28-6 '65/32-6 '64/34-8 '63/48-0 '62/30-20 '61/34-6 '60/15-6 Not a win in the bunch and most were lopsided scores. I don't recall a lot of Crusader fans calling for the end of that series as the Orange was usually nationally ranked or at least #1 or #2 in the Northeast - usually fighting Penn State for those honors. Two seasons after the hepatitis cancelled season, things got worse in '71 with a 63-21 thumping. Pretty sure that's when HC decided "no mas!" So, will Holy Cross win this year? Only a miracle greater than the '42 win over BC could get that accomplished. Losing by 40 or more points? How would that be any worse than the '68 or '63 season when we were on an "equal footing" (note the quotes). And this time, we get a big payday and some needed name recognition. Syracuse can name the score now, no question. The only question in my mind is, is the current Syracuse coach like "Roll 'em up Benny" who showed no mercy - ever - because the bigger the win, the higher up they went in the rankings. The one thing I am sure of, our guys will not quit regardless of the score. They didn't quit against BC. They won't quit against Syracuse. Maybe win a little respect. That was my freshman year. We got some revenge over Syracuse a couple of months later when our basketball team upset the Orange (finished 22-6 on the season) 99-93 at the Auditorium. I recall HC fans shouting jeers about where Schwatzwalder was...
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 3, 2019 17:24:22 GMT -5
Boisture was only head coach for 2 seasons, '67 & '68. If the game was in Syracuse as you recollect, we lost that game 41-7 (and the following year at home lost 47-0). So, in Boisture's two years, we were outscored 88-7 by the Orange.
Boisture is the guy who claimed at a bonfire rally before the '67 season that we would go undefeated. We ended up 5-5 and after the season, "The Crusader" had a story headlined "5+5 = 10+0." He followed that disappointing season with a 3-6-1 record.
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Post by Chu Chu on Jun 3, 2019 19:40:35 GMT -5
If memory serves me, HC was one of the few teams to beat Syracuse over a 3-4 year span in the late 1950's when the Orangeman were one of the best teams in all of college football. I believe they were beaten by Tennessee, H C twice and someone else over a span of 45 games. Your memory serves you well, trimester. After Holy Cross defeated Syracuse in 1958 (for the second time in a row) the Orange went on to be undefeated the rest of that year and also the next, when they were the unanimous pick to be national champions by all of the polls. They beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl following the season of their Holy Cross defeat, and the next year, they went on to soundly beat the Texas Longhorns in the Cotton Bowl. An interesting side note from the Cotton Bowl is that Syracuse boycotted the Cotton Bowl trophy award ceremony. It seems that the negro players were not welcome at the segregated country club where the award was held, and so they gathered at a pizza joint for their own party. That team included Ernie Davis, who caught an 87-yard pass from Gerhard Schwedes early in the first quarter to give the Orangemen the lead only 1:13 into the game. Ernie went on to be the first black player to win the Heisman trophy. Following their national championship year, Syracuse continued to be a very strong program throughout the 60s, and this time period was when they scored some of their most lopsided victories against Holy Cross. I am glad to see us play them again. This was a storied rivalry that is fun to remember.
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Post by moose1970 on Jun 3, 2019 20:48:38 GMT -5
If memory serves me, HC was one of the few teams to beat Syracuse over a 3-4 year span in the late 1950's when the Orangeman were one of the best teams in all of college football. I believe they were beaten by Tennessee, H C twice and someone else over a span of 45 games. Your memory serves you well, trimester. After Holy Cross defeated Syracuse in 1958 (for the second time in a row) the Orange went on to be undefeated the rest of that year and also the next, when they were the unanimous pick to be national champions by all of the polls. They beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl following the season of their Holy Cross defeat, and the next year, they went on to soundly beat the Texas Longhorns in the Cotton Bowl. An interesting side note from the Cotton Bowl is that Syracuse boycotted the Cotton Bowl trophy award ceremony. It seems that the negro players were not welcome at the segregated country club where the award was held, and so they gathered at a pizza joint for their own party. That team included Ernie Davis, who caught an 87-yard pass from Gerhard Schwedes early in the first quarter to give the Orangemen the lead only 1:13 into the game. Ernie went on to be the first black player to win the Heisman trophy. Following their national championship year, Syracuse continued to be a very strong program throughout the 60s, and this time period was when they scored some of their most lopsided victories against Holy Cross. I am glad to see us play them again. This was a storied rivalry that is fun to remember. " This was a storied rivalry that is fun to remember." i share your fond memories but the operative word here is "was". for me the ongoing event (i avoid use of the word "game") detracts and diminishes from what this all meant.
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Post by trimster on Jun 4, 2019 8:05:07 GMT -5
If memory serves me, HC was one of the few teams to beat Syracuse over a 3-4 year span in the late 1950's when the Orangeman were one of the best teams in all of college football. I believe they were beaten by Tennessee, H C twice and someone else over a span of 45 games. Your memory serves you well, trimester. After Holy Cross defeated Syracuse in 1958 (for the second time in a row) the Orange went on to be undefeated the rest of that year and also the next, when they were the unanimous pick to be national champions by all of the polls. They beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl following the season of their Holy Cross defeat, and the next year, they went on to soundly beat the Texas Longhorns in the Cotton Bowl. An interesting side note from the Cotton Bowl is that Syracuse boycotted the Cotton Bowl trophy award ceremony. It seems that the negro players were not welcome at the segregated country club where the award was held, and so they gathered at a pizza joint for their own party. That team included Ernie Davis, who caught an 87-yard pass from Gerhard Schwedes early in the first quarter to give the Orangemen the lead only 1:13 into the game. Ernie went on to be the first black player to win the Heisman trophy. Following their national championship year, Syracuse continued to be a very strong program throughout the 60s, and this time period was when they scored some of their most lopsided victories against Holy Cross. I am glad to see us play them again. This was a storied rivalry that is fun to remember. I was too you to have seen that era but I came across that info when I was reading about one of the greatest eras of Syracuse football. Speaking of Gerhard Scwedes, I believe he was one of the first picks in the inaugural draft of the Boston Patriots in 1960.
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Post by Chu Chu on Jun 4, 2019 13:35:01 GMT -5
Actually, the film features both the 1957 and 1958 Holy Cross wins against Syracuse! It was very inaccurate, however. For example, they portrayed the game in Archbold as dark and rainy, but I was at that game as a ten year old, and remember a bright and beautiful autumn afternoon.
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Post by rickii on Jun 4, 2019 15:11:38 GMT -5
sader1970 -
I believe the last game was the somewhat infamous 5-3 loss to SU at Fitton....1974??
There was a brief but nasty altercation between the coaching staffs on the field after that one.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 4, 2019 15:49:43 GMT -5
It was November 10, 1973. In all the years since, I have not been to a game as cold as that afternoon. The only place colder for a football game would have been Lambeau Field.
I still visualize the HC punter stepping onto the end line and the ref calling a safety. Futility personified. 🥶😤
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Post by Chu Chu on Jun 4, 2019 15:54:18 GMT -5
That was the first game Syracuse won that season. They also beat BC the next week, and wound up 2-9 that year. Sad we could not beat them. It was Ben Schwartzwalder's last year as a coach.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 4, 2019 16:41:53 GMT -5
rickii, you are correct as once again, I didn't phrase my post correctly. I did not mean it was the last game, just that it might have been the decision point and they played the 5-3 loss due to prior commitments. Would have been nice to have that final game. Well, not final as we are playing them again this year. Unless someone drinks from a tainted water fountain again.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 4, 2019 17:18:55 GMT -5
It was November 10, 1973. In all the years since, I have not been to a game as cold as that afternoon. The only place colder for a football game would have been Lambert Field. I still visualize the HC punter stepping onto the end line and the ref calling a safety. Futility personified. 🥶😤 Did not attend that one, but the HC win over BC in ‘63 was bitter, bitter. But all was well when Jon Morris, playing D as well as O, mirrored BC’s All East qB Jack Concannon for a huge W.
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Post by hc87 on Jun 4, 2019 20:54:24 GMT -5
The oft discussed coldest evah game...someone posted a link where you could see what the weather was like on days gone by...I remembah seeing the temp on that day dropping from like 40 around noon to nearly sub-zero at game's end.
Poor Tom Rock, our punter that day, was forever blamed in our family for that loss...it may have been a bad snap, not sure.
That game has been the gold standard for cold games for me evah since.
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