|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 10:28:12 GMT -5
That's not accurate. The player takes a big risk, since his school can choose to take away his scholarship and not allow him to return if he chooses to enter the portal. I am sure that if Nelson had found an available 2019 player who he really liked that Grandison would not have been allowed to return. Do many players in the portal return to their original school ? No. But some do. I think most who put their names on the list have made the decision that they aren't happy where they are and want a change. Also I am sure a number of them don't have the opportunity to return since they are told their scholarship is no longer available. Additionally we need to remember that many who enter the portal do so either because their coach has gently pushed them out the door by telling them they won't see any playing time next year - or has done it more forcefully by telling them their scholarship will not be renewed for the upcoming season. In those cases, the player has little choice but to enter the portal - and has no chance to return to his original school.
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 10:30:22 GMT -5
Perhaps a coach/school could take action, but I would make it automatic and not at the discretion of the coach/school. And as mentioned above this wouldn’t apply if there is a coaching change. Why wouldn't you allow the school - who best knows the player's character and his reasons for exploring a possible transfer - to make this decision, as opposed to having a one-size-fits-all NCAA edict? In any event, this sort of rule is very unlikely to ever be implemented.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2019 10:33:58 GMT -5
Agree with you about the likelihood of any change because the current system helps fill the needs of the big schools.
|
|
|
Post by bigfan on Aug 21, 2019 10:34:37 GMT -5
In the future, players who improve in their first two years, will now leave the PL for better leagues. The top players will not stay for four years.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Aug 21, 2019 11:09:56 GMT -5
/\ /\We had one guy leave for a much better league and one guy leave sort of laterally. This may have been much more of a particular and somewhat peculiar HC thing this year than a part of a general HC or PL trend. Did any actual returning PL all-stars (AKA 'the top players") depart for better leagues this year? (This is not to suggest that there is not a growing general trend in transferring. Also, bison137 reminds us that many folks on the portal are there following gentle nudges [and playing time projections] from their current schools.)
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 11:32:20 GMT -5
/\ /\We had one guy leave for a much better league and one guy leave sort of laterally. This may have been much more of a particular and somewhat peculiar HC thing this year than a part of a general HC or PL trend. Did any actual returning PL all-stars (AKA 'the top players") depart for better leagues this year? Few of the PL's better players have left in recent years, but there have been a few. Bucknell's Nate Sestina transferred to Kentucky - but he did not have the option to return due to Bucknell's policy on players who lost a year due to injury. Also three who would have contended for All-PL this year also departed: Lehigh's Pat Andree, Au's Sam Iorio, and Boston U's Tyler Scanlan. A few other likely starters also transferred: Lehigh's Caleb Bennett and Navy's Josiah Strong. And one other possible starter, Boston U's Jordan Guest left - but that was due to disciplinary problems that had caused him to be suspended for the latter part of the season. Fwiw, Bucknell has had three scholarship players transfer out in its history. And one of those three (Sestina) unfortunately did not have the option to return.
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 11:36:24 GMT -5
Agree with you about the likelihood of any change because the current system helps fill the needs of the big schools. I don't think the current system helps fill the needs of the big schools any more than the previous system did. If a player wants to transfer, he will explore his options whether or not there is a portal and whether or not he is immediately thrown out of his current program if he thinks about transferring. The only thing a different system would do is drive the process underground again, and make it harder for schools and for players.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2019 11:43:40 GMT -5
You are probably right Or it might be Transparency makes it more attractive for the player because it expands his/her pool of options by letting all schools know you are out there. For big schools they now have a full menu of high school, prep, global talent, and transfers from which to select.
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 21, 2019 12:17:51 GMT -5
In the future, players who improve in their first two years, will now leave the PL for better leagues. The top players will not stay for four years. This is simply not true. The only real difference with the Transfer Portal is that schools can't block players from entering it, but other than than that, it's essentially the same exact thing as players getting a release in the old system (which schools very rarely stopped from happening). If CJ McCollum wanted to leave Lehigh after two years, he could have done so just as easily without the portal as he could now, and he would have had to sit out for a year at the new school under both systems.
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Aug 21, 2019 12:31:42 GMT -5
Both McCollum and Muscala would probably transfer today imo....I agree, this won't bode well for the PL in toto
|
|
|
Post by classof83 on Aug 21, 2019 12:58:47 GMT -5
In the future, players who improve in their first two years, will now leave the PL for better leagues. The top players will not stay for four years. This is simply not true. The only real difference with the Transfer Portal is that schools can't block players from entering it, but other than than that, it's essentially the same exact thing as players getting a release in the old system (which schools very rarely stopped from happening). If CJ McCollum wanted to leave Lehigh after two years, he could have done so just as easily without the portal as he could now, and he would have had to sit out for a year at the new school under both systems. According to this article the system has created a lot of disruption. There were 700 kids in the transfer portal 1 week after the NCAA Tournament was over in April. There are 353 teams in D1 basketball. The article also mentions Joey Hauser's transfer from Marquette to Michigan State. That decision may have helped BN's decision to take the HC job. www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2019/07/11/one-year-in-ncaas-transfer-portal-has-mixed-reviews-basketball/1689525001/Granted, the rules at getting a waiver to not sit out a year were tightened this summer, but to say the situation is essentially the same is just not accurate.
|
|
|
Post by hc6774 on Aug 21, 2019 13:14:34 GMT -5
is the impact greater or less on the Ivies
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 13:36:17 GMT -5
This is simply not true. The only real difference with the Transfer Portal is that schools can't block players from entering it, but other than than that, it's essentially the same exact thing as players getting a release in the old system (which schools very rarely stopped from happening). If CJ McCollum wanted to leave Lehigh after two years, he could have done so just as easily without the portal as he could now, and he would have had to sit out for a year at the new school under both systems. According to this article the system has created a lot of disruption. There were 700 kids in the transfer portal 1 week after the NCAA Tournament was over in April. There are 353 teams in D1 basketball. The article also mentions Joey Hauser's transfer from Marquette to Michigan State. That decision may have helped BN's decision to take the HC job. www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2019/07/11/one-year-in-ncaas-transfer-portal-has-mixed-reviews-basketball/1689525001/Granted, the rules at getting a waiver to not sit out a year were tightened this summer, but to say the situation is essentially the same is just not accurate. As I have pointed out before, stats show the number of players seeking to transfer has gone up a fairly small amount over the last four years. And if you factored in the players who explored transfers via third party intermediaries in the past, the number may not have gone up at all. From 2014 to now, the number of transfers from D1 schools has grown at an average rate of 5% a year. From 2015, the rate of growth was less than 4% per year. Note that many of those players transferred down to D2 or D3 because they had discovered that they weren't good enough to play D1. Almost all of the articles you see are based on stories and anecdotal evidence only..
|
|
|
Post by classof83 on Aug 21, 2019 14:19:59 GMT -5
According to Verbal Commits there are 972 D1 Basketball transfers so far in 2019.
In 2018 there were 872. An increase of 11.4%
The Portal has been around for 1 year.
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 14:24:14 GMT -5
According to Verbal Commits there are 972 D1 Basketball transfers so far in 2019. In 2018 there were 872. An increase of 11.4% The Portal has been around for 1 year. Yes and in 2017 there were 892. So an 8.2% increase over the two-year period - or 4% per year. That is in line with the long-term trend. And, as I pointed out before, some of the players seeking to transfer prior to this year never showed up on the Verbal Commits list. For all we know, there may have been no increase at all. In two of the past four years, the number of transfers on the list actually fell, so it's hard to tell anything from looking at one year's data.
|
|
|
Post by classof83 on Aug 21, 2019 14:45:25 GMT -5
According to Verbal Commits there are 972 D1 Basketball transfers so far in 2019. In 2018 there were 872. An increase of 11.4% The Portal has been around for 1 year. Yes and in 2017 there were 892. So an 8.2% increase over the two-year period - or 4% per year. That is in line with the long-term trend. And, as I pointed out before, some of the players seeking to transfer prior to this year never showed up on the Verbal Commits list. For all we know, there may have been no increase at all. In two of the past four years, the number of transfers on the list actually fell, so it's hard to tell anything from looking at one year's data. Agreed, but 1 year is all we have. Not to be snarky, but we know how many were seeking or at least considering transferring this year because of the Portal. How was that number determined in the past?
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 15:00:11 GMT -5
Yes and in 2017 there were 892. So an 8.2% increase over the two-year period - or 4% per year. That is in line with the long-term trend. And, as I pointed out before, some of the players seeking to transfer prior to this year never showed up on the Verbal Commits list. For all we know, there may have been no increase at all. In two of the past four years, the number of transfers on the list actually fell, so it's hard to tell anything from looking at one year's data. Agreed, but 1 year is all we have. Not to be snarky, but we know how many were seeking or at least considering transferring this year because of the Portal. How was that number determined in the past? Just from twitter, articles, and actual transfers. So there were undoubtedly more - which is why it is possible the number has not grown at all. Right now we have no real data on how much transfers are growing, since as you say we only have one year of data with the current system. A comparison of 2018 numbers to 2019 numbers is very much apples-to-oranges. But we do know in the past that the number sometimes rose and sometimes fell using the same method to track potential transfers. It will be interesting to see what happens in Year 2 of the new system of tracking.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2019 15:29:01 GMT -5
Wonder if opinions change if we look at it this way—perhaps not, but I find it interesting and perhaps unhealthy for the game.
353 D1 programs and assume each school gives 4 scholarships per year That is 1412 scholarships per year Or x13 scholarships per program giving you a total of 4,589 players on scholarship at the D1 level
In 2019 there are 972 names in the portal
That is approaching 70% of players awarded a scholarship in any given year are seeking to transfer Or 21% of all D1 scholarship players looking to transfer each year
Wondering how healthy that is for the game that teaches team and commitment
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 16:47:43 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind is that a significant number of those 972 were pushed into the portal by their coaches. They either were told they were unlikely to ever play, in an attempt to get them to transfer, or else they had their scholarship terminated - forcing them to transfer. I think it's healthier that they find new homes than to simply drop out of school.
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Aug 21, 2019 16:59:49 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, I looked at last year's transfer list. Of the first 100 names on it, 62 of them did not end up at D1 schools. Most of these players are ones who weren't good enough to play D1, and many were officially or unofficially run off their teams. Some others couldn't handle the academic rigors of their schools and ended up at JUCO's. It is better for everyone that this very large group chooses to transfer.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2019 17:11:38 GMT -5
The problem is the pre early and early commitments
Do it the old fashion way no official commitments until kids are seniors
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Aug 21, 2019 17:16:46 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, I looked at last year's transfer list. Of the first 100 names on it, 62 of them did not end up at D1 schools. Most of these players are ones who weren't good enough to play D1, and many were officially or unofficially run off their teams. Some others couldn't handle the academic rigors of their schools and ended up at JUCO's. It is better for everyone that this very large group chooses to transfer. I'm afraid some folks don't know how common this is. The other team I follow, Stony Brook, had three schollie players transfer out since the end of the season. Their star (Yeboah) left as a grad transfer to Rutgers, and two underclassmen who were facing diminished roles transferred out to lesser schools. FWIW, they also had a player transfer in (from Dayton) and one come in from Junior College. So this sort of movement is common - just not so much at HC. (I don't necessarily think we'll see much of this from HC - - this year's double departure of returning starters is not likely to be repeated.)
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Aug 21, 2019 17:59:59 GMT -5
Wait, are you people saying that Green and Grandison were not the only players who transferred out this off season? Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!
|
|
|
Post by southernsader on Aug 21, 2019 18:14:54 GMT -5
For the love of God, Dean Wormer, Jacob Grandison is dead to us. Can we please put this thread out of its misery?
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2019 18:23:50 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, I looked at last year's transfer list. Of the first 100 names on it, 62 of them did not end up at D1 schools. Most of these players are ones who weren't good enough to play D1, and many were officially or unofficially run off their teams. Some others couldn't handle the academic rigors of their schools and ended up at JUCO's. It is better for everyone that this very large group chooses to transfer. Disagree as I think it is generational and the need to receive constant validation and worth, and perhaps even helicopter parents and friends as I said go back to senior only commitments and the kids will make better choices
|
|