|
Post by hchoops on Oct 16, 2019 14:03:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Oct 16, 2019 14:31:09 GMT -5
Note that due to the NCAA allowing six years to graduate and vet the numbers, these are stats for the Class of 2017.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 16, 2019 15:43:42 GMT -5
Note that due to the NCAA allowing six years to graduate and vet the numbers, these are stats for the Class of 2017. Yes, and we'll get a severe comeuppance when our ex-players time comes up
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Oct 17, 2019 8:07:08 GMT -5
Note that due to the NCAA allowing six years to graduate and vet the numbers, these are stats for the Class of 2017. Yes, and we'll get a severe comeuppance when our ex-players time comes up If someone transfers and graduates from another school, I don't think that counts against you. Last I knew, all but two are currently enrolled and progressing towards a bachelor's degree. The other two, I have zero information about. They may or may not be enrolled somewhere else
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Oct 17, 2019 15:23:27 GMT -5
Yes, and we'll get a severe comeuppance when our ex-players time comes up If someone transfers and graduates from another school, I don't think that counts against you. Last I knew, all but two are currently enrolled and progressing towards a bachelor's degree. The other two, I have zero information about. They may or may not be enrolled somewhere else There are two different metrics that track graduation rates. The federal one counts transfers against a school, i.e. it measures how successful a school is in enrolling students who stay and graduate. The calculation for athletes is directly comparable to the federal graduation rate for a school in total. In contrast, the one used by HC in the press release - the NCAA Graduation Success Rate (GSR) - largely doesn't penalize schools for transfers. IF a transfer leaves in good academic standing, then that athlete does not factor into the calculation. Note that it only measures student-athletes getting athletic-related aid, so presumably Powers would not be factored into the calculation. There is no comparable metric for a school's overall student body. Although the GSR is OK for schools such as you find in the Patriot League. it was created at least partly for NCAA public relations and doesn't really track graduation success well. The reason is that the majority of athletes who leave in good academic standing do not re-enroll in another school, instead becoming drop-outs. Yet the NCAA model assumes they all go on to another college. When you see NCAA videos bragging about the graduation rate of student-athletes, the percentages they cite are always incorrect.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Oct 17, 2019 16:11:35 GMT -5
If someone transfers and graduates from another school, I don't think that counts against you. Last I knew, all but two are currently enrolled and progressing towards a bachelor's degree. The other two, I have zero information about. They may or may not be enrolled somewhere else There are two different metrics that track graduation rates. The federal one counts transfers against a school, i.e. it measures how successful a school is in enrolling students who stay and graduate. The calculation for athletes is directly comparable to the federal graduation rate for a school in total. In contrast, the one used by HC in the press release - the NCAA Graduation Success Rate (GSR) - largely doesn't penalize schools for transfers. IF a transfer leaves in good academic standing, then that athlete does not factor into the calculation. Note that it only measures student-athletes getting athletic-related aid, so presumably Powers would not be factored into the calculation. There is no comparable metric for a school's overall student body. Although the GSR is OK for schools such as you find in the Patriot League. it was created at least partly for NCAA public relations and doesn't really track graduation success well. The reason is that the majority of athletes who leave in good academic standing do not re-enroll in another school, instead becoming drop-outs. Yet the NCAA model assumes they all go on to another college. When you see NCAA videos bragging about the graduation rate of student-athletes, the percentages they cite are always incorrect. thanks for the clarification. So basically there will be no comeuppance or any ramification when the ex players 6 years are up if they left in good standing. FYI - Powers left the team, but I believe he stayed in school.
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Oct 17, 2019 17:09:19 GMT -5
There are two different metrics that track graduation rates. The federal one counts transfers against a school, i.e. it measures how successful a school is in enrolling students who stay and graduate. The calculation for athletes is directly comparable to the federal graduation rate for a school in total. In contrast, the one used by HC in the press release - the NCAA Graduation Success Rate (GSR) - largely doesn't penalize schools for transfers. IF a transfer leaves in good academic standing, then that athlete does not factor into the calculation. Note that it only measures student-athletes getting athletic-related aid, so presumably Powers would not be factored into the calculation. There is no comparable metric for a school's overall student body. Although the GSR is OK for schools such as you find in the Patriot League. it was created at least partly for NCAA public relations and doesn't really track graduation success well. The reason is that the majority of athletes who leave in good academic standing do not re-enroll in another school, instead becoming drop-outs. Yet the NCAA model assumes they all go on to another college. When you see NCAA videos bragging about the graduation rate of student-athletes, the percentages they cite are always incorrect. thanks for the clarification. So basically there will be no comeuppance or any ramification when the ex players 6 years are up if they left in good standing. FYI - Powers left the team, but I believe he stayed in school. Correct, no effect on the NCAA graduation metric if they left in good standing. Definite effect on the federal graduation rate. Then there is the Academic Progress Rate (APR), which really is the most significant measure - which views transfers differently. It was put into place because the Graduation Rate reports require seven years before a metric can be produced for a given entering cohort. The APR, in contrast, measures progress or lack thereof, one year at a time, albeit with a one-year lag. An athlete gets a point for each semester that he/she stays eligible and another point for returning for the next semester (or for graduating). In this metric, transfers are treated a bit differently. If an athlete transfers out, he/she still gets a point IF he/she had a cumulative GPA over 2.6 at the time of transfer AND if he immediately enrolls in a new school. (The NCAA chose that 2.6 figure because it was found that the majority of transfers with worse GPA's than that never ended up earning a degree.) So, for a team of 13 scholarship athletes, there would be a maximum of 52 points (13 x 4). If one player left at year-end and had a sub-par GPA, then the APR would be 51/52 = .981, Ultimately the APR is calculated as a four-year rolling average, with penalties applied for low scores (below 930) - especially if they are chronic. HC's APR has fallen the past two years, from 1000 to 995 to 986, presumably due to some fallout from the three who departed the team. Not a big deal and nowhere close to earning any penalties.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Oct 18, 2019 8:55:53 GMT -5
So Grandison and Green who immediately enrolled will have no impact on APR.
Cohen left the school for prior to the start of spring semester and I don't think enrolled in JuCo until the fall. So that lost semester would count against APR, but not the GSR (assuming he left in good academic standing which might be not be a valid assumption.
IF the other two guys found a school for last fall, they would be not count against APR, but if they weren't enrolled in Sept of 2018, they would count against.
We make jokes about cherry picking stats to back up any point of view. Having 3 different metrics for academic progress certainly makes that easier
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 18, 2019 10:25:33 GMT -5
Probably just me but I find these stats on graduation rates, academic honor rolls and the like pretty worthless.
Tie in the discussions of grade inflation; what the major is; the degree of difficulty that varies from school to school and there are just too many variables for any kind of "objective" discussion of academic success of athletes.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Oct 18, 2019 13:06:49 GMT -5
Ask the sanctioned NCAA teams about the value of these stats. I think they see value in them...now.
|
|