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Post by cfrivals on Nov 13, 2019 9:40:24 GMT -5
Love the kid's grit but these crazy drives into traffic make no sense at all.
At this rate he is going to lead the nation in the number of his shots that are blocked.
His drives are not explosive, he's only 6'4", and he doesn't elevate very well.
What's the definition of "insanity"?
As a few posters noted this thread and many have over the last 2+ years, Butler has an enormous number of shots blocked when he goes down low.
While I never thought I 'd write this about a basketball player, he takes too many shots when he is close to the basket (drives, rebounds, loose balls, etc.).
He is listed generously as 6'5" but plays like he is much shorter - he needs to realize this is not HS where he had some relative size - so he needs to kick it out or dump it off more often.
(There are good points to his game but this is a glaring weakness IMHO).
Just a random thought that if Fairfield had a player like JF, that player would have really lit it up last night v our defense.
when he cups the ball he usually gets it blocked or misses wildly. When his hand extended toward basket, better results. Would be great as a 6th or 7th man, not a starter IMO.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 13, 2019 9:55:35 GMT -5
With the usual caveats re: sample size, the advanced gamelogs for the three games show linear improvement in a few "four factor" performances - namely rebounding at both ends and opponent turnovers. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/holy-cross/2020-gamelogs-advanced.htmlThis, in turn, has led to an improvement in "extra scoring chances per game" (Extra Scoring Chances = OR + Opp TOs - Opp OR - TOs. ) Vs. Maryland, we were -21 (i.e., Terrapins had 21 extra scoring opportunities). Vs. UNH, we were -6. Last night, +1
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 13, 2019 9:56:17 GMT -5
Just a random thought that if Fairfield had a player like JF, that player would have really lit it up last night v our defense.
...and if we had JF last night we would have had a win...interesting fantasy. We do not and neither did they. Perhaps could we focus on the players who are actually on the teams or the court?
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Fairfield
Nov 13, 2019 10:04:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by timholycross on Nov 13, 2019 10:04:43 GMT -5
With the usual caveats re: sample size, the advanced gamelogs for the three games show linear improvement in a few "four factor" performances - namely rebounding at both ends and opponent turnovers. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/holy-cross/2020-gamelogs-advanced.htmlThis, in turn, has led to an improvement in "extra scoring chances per game" (Extra Scoring Chances = OR + Opp TOs - Opp OR - TOs. ) Vs. Maryland, we were -21 (i.e., Terrapins had 21 extra scoring opportunities). Vs. UNH, we were -6. Last night, +1 I believe HC got four offensive rebounds on one trip down the court and got no points. Four misses and then Verbeek got stripped.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 13, 2019 10:43:19 GMT -5
Love the kid's grit but these crazy drives into traffic make no sense at all.
At this rate he is going to lead the nation in the number of his shots that are blocked.
His drives are not explosive, he's only 6'4", and he doesn't elevate very well.
What's the definition of "insanity"?
As a few posters noted this thread and many have over the last 2+ years, Butler has an enormous number of shots blocked when he goes down low.
While I never thought I 'd write this about a basketball player, he takes too many shots when he is close to the basket (drives, rebounds, loose balls, etc.).
He is listed generously as 6'5" but plays like he is much shorter - he needs to realize this is not HS where he had some relative size - so he needs to kick it out or dump it off more often.
(There are good points to his game but this is a glaring weakness IMHO).
Just a random thought that if Fairfield had a player like JF, that player would have really lit it up last night v our defense.
Butler's ideal role is as a 3-point shooter to provide a spark coming off the bench for 15-20 minutes per game -- like Mark Jerz at the end of his career. However, Butler is only shooting 36.3% on 3s for his career, so he would even need to improve on that rate to fit that role.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 13, 2019 10:43:52 GMT -5
Just a random thought that if Fairfield had a player like JF, that player would have really lit it up last night v our defense.
...and if we had JF last night we would have had a win...interesting fantasy. We do not and neither did they. Perhaps could we focus on the players who are actually on the teams or the court? Thanks for the tip on what I should focus on.
Beyond that, one might draw the obvious conclusion that when we face a team with a powerful inside player we'll be in for a world of hurt. This year.
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Post by HC92 on Nov 13, 2019 11:49:58 GMT -5
Some perspective from the guy who was working on his jumper 15 minutes after a hard-fought OT game in which he played 36 minutes and had 16 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals:
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 13, 2019 12:02:49 GMT -5
Some perspective from the guy who was working on his jumper 15 minutes after a hard-fought OT game in which he played 36 minutes and had 16 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals: Not only does he have game, he's really smart too! Let's take his advice.
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Post by Ignutz on Nov 13, 2019 12:08:35 GMT -5
Some perspective from the guy who was working on his jumper 15 minutes after a hard-fought OT game in which he played 36 minutes and had 16 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals: I’m liking this young man.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 13, 2019 12:09:12 GMT -5
As a few posters noted this thread and many have over the last 2+ years, Butler has an enormous number of shots blocked when he goes down low.
While I never thought I 'd write this about a basketball player, he takes too many shots when he is close to the basket (drives, rebounds, loose balls, etc.).
He is listed generously as 6'5" but plays like he is much shorter - he needs to realize this is not HS where he had some relative size - so he needs to kick it out or dump it off more often.
(There are good points to his game but this is a glaring weakness IMHO).
Just a random thought that if Fairfield had a player like JF, that player would have really lit it up last night v our defense.
Butler's ideal role is as a 3-point shooter to provide a spark coming off the bench for 15-20 minutes per game -- like Mark Jerz at the end of his career. However, Butler is only shooting 36.3% on 3s for his career, so he would even need to improve on that rate to fit that role. Of course, 36.3% is a very good 3 point shooting percentage (and he was much higher than that last season) as it would place a team in 80th place among 353 division-1 teams last season.
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Fairfield
Nov 13, 2019 12:19:51 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by HC92 on Nov 13, 2019 12:19:51 GMT -5
Minutes distribution by Class:
Fr 44% So 23% Jr 33%
If you believe Niego will redshirt and want to think of him as a Soph:
Fr 44% So 38% Jr 18%
So, 82% of the minutes from guys who will still be on the team in 2021-22 if Niego redshirts.
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Post by possum on Nov 13, 2019 12:22:28 GMT -5
36.3% is fine for a team but in BBC's projected role it would not be acceptable for a supposed sniper.
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Post by Tom on Nov 13, 2019 12:26:26 GMT -5
Lowder had 5 points with about 3 minutes to go and wasn't shooting particularly well. Then he came down and nailed two 3's and a 2 to get HC back into it. Gutsy poise for a freshman.
For those who were not in love with the last play in regulation, remember HC is completely changing the offense and the defense. I'm guessing the plan is to master the basics of the new system before spending much time working on special situational plays
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Fairfield
Nov 13, 2019 12:36:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 13, 2019 12:36:17 GMT -5
36.3% is fine for a team but in BBC's projected role it would not be acceptable for a supposed sniper. Mark Jerz shot 50% from 3 as a senior.
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Post by HC92 on Nov 13, 2019 12:54:42 GMT -5
36.3% is fine for a team but in BBC's projected role it would not be acceptable for a supposed sniper. Mark Jerz shot 50% from 3 as a senior. 1. Jerz made roughly 23% of his threes prior to his senior year. 2. The line was roughly 2.5 feet closer. 3. As I have posted before, Butler can play for my team anytime.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 13, 2019 13:03:05 GMT -5
36.3% is fine for a team but in BBC's projected role it would not be acceptable for a supposed sniper. Mark Jerz shot 50% from 3 as a senior. Since he graduated from my high school, I should know but I do not. How many minutes a game did he play as a senior? With that shooting it must have been huge.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 13, 2019 13:04:39 GMT -5
Butler is significantly more talented and a better player than Mark Jerz.
He forces things too much, which needs to be corrected. If our roster was loaded, sure he could be an instant offense kind of guy off the bench that plays 15-20 mins, but we don't have that luxury.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 13, 2019 13:05:40 GMT -5
Mark Jerz shot 50% from 3 as a senior. Since he graduated from my high school, I should know but I do not. How many minutes a game did he play as a senior? With that shooting it must have been huge. 18.2 MPG.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 13, 2019 13:08:20 GMT -5
What were the deficits that kept him from getting more time?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 13, 2019 13:29:31 GMT -5
What were the deficits that kept him from getting more time? Matk Jerz started 9 games as a freshman and played 330 minutes total, averaging 1.9 PPG in 14 minutes per game. He shot 8/39= .205 on threes. He had 22 assists to 35 turnovers. He played 5 minutes total as a sophomore and 61 minutes total as a junior. The story is told that Ralph (I believe he "inherited" Jerz, i.e. recruited by prior coach and came in as a freshman in Ralph's first year) told Jerz that he would never get any playing time and Jerz responded by hitting the weight room or doing other workouts and "remade" himself into a better, fitter athlete. As a senior he became a real contributor. I remember him having a great game against Fordham as a senior. I met his parents a couple of times--at the game against IU in Indianapolis and I believe the one in Louisville (or maybe NCAA tourney game in Indy?)--nice folks-they also had a son who played for Lafayette.
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Post by dadominate on Nov 13, 2019 17:37:11 GMT -5
Butler is a great kid. Muscling and bulling his way to the basket is his game. Unfortunately, due to his lack of size, he will not be able to consistently score in this way. He is a guard trying to play as an undersized power forward. I hope that he is able to change his game to an instant offense outside shooting offensive player. His days of pushing other bigs around are over. We'll see if he is up to the challenge. I do wish him well. LoveHC agreed. i wonder if rj might be able to help butler in this respect. rj had a similar bull in a china shop/undersized power game, but he was more effective scoring around the hole. while butler is tough as hell and as strong as rj, butler's moves and penetration unfold more slowly and he takes wide angles getting to the basket, allowing help defense to come in and swat many of his shots. rj had a similar approach, but he took more direct angles. i think that's a big part of the issue right now for butler. neither player was terribly quick, but rj's angles were more direct and his footwork more compact. i think i could help butler with this, so i'm sure rj (ten times the player and coach than i was at my best) can help him!
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Post by DiMarz on Nov 13, 2019 19:38:37 GMT -5
A lot of good things happening out on the court..I see improvement in the M2M, not only guarding the ball but play off the ball..Getting over the top of screens by the guards was very good last night..Our 4's and 5's are showing more physical play and their footwork is getting more fluid..Verbeek still gets tangled feet on occasion, fell down once on D. but he plays hard is willing to mix it up inside..And when his 3 is falling it adds another dimension to his game, teams will have to step out with him, bringing their big out of the lane, opening up driving lanes...The team offense is getting there, still not fluid, too many players holding the ball a split second to long, but that will come as they play together a bit more.. Niego is starting to look for his shot, inside and out.. Butler, as noted before, has had a lot shots blocked and he needs to make some changes in what he does on his penetration..Perhaps learn to shoot a floater, or a pull-up jumper..If I could talk to him, I'd tell him to get into the defenders body and reach "through" him...i.e. reach under the defenders arm to the rim, a great way to draw fouls and neutralize the defenders reach...
Good crowd last night, and the whole package was so different...a guy on the court pumping up the crowd, the team came onto the floor under a spotlight with the house lights dimmed..Starting lineup was intro the same way.. Northeastern next Tuesday is a tough one..gotta get better each night out!
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Fairfield
Nov 13, 2019 20:36:22 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 13, 2019 20:36:22 GMT -5
Butler is a great kid. Muscling and bulling his way to the basket is his game. Unfortunately, due to his lack of size, he will not be able to consistently score in this way. He is a guard trying to play as an undersized power forward. I hope that he is able to change his game to an instant offense outside shooting offensive player. His days of pushing other bigs around are over. We'll see if he is up to the challenge. I do wish him well. LoveHC agreed. i wonder if rj might be able to help butler in this respect. rj had a similar bull in a china shop/undersized power game, but he was more effective scoring around the hole. while butler is tough as hell and as strong as rj, butler's moves and penetration unfold more slowly and he takes wide angles getting to the basket, allowing help defense to come in and swat many of his shots. rj had a similar approach, but he took more direct angles. i think that's a big part of the issue right now for butler. neither player was terribly quick, but rj's angles were more direct and his footwork more compact. i think i could help butler with this, so i'm sure rj (ten times the player and coach than i was at my best) can help him! RJ was also excellent at creating space for himself by changing pace and using his body to create an advantage. Butler just puts his head down, goes until he can’t go any further, and shoots. It doesn’t work against D1 players. But can’t fully blame him, as the previous staff didn’t really pay any attention to details and fundamentals. Fingers crossed that RJ and BN will have a positive impact on his offensive game.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 13, 2019 21:54:19 GMT -5
agreed. i wonder if rj might be able to help butler in this respect. rj had a similar bull in a china shop/undersized power game, but he was more effective scoring around the hole. while butler is tough as hell and as strong as rj, butler's moves and penetration unfold more slowly and he takes wide angles getting to the basket, allowing help defense to come in and swat many of his shots. rj had a similar approach, but he took more direct angles. i think that's a big part of the issue right now for butler. neither player was terribly quick, but rj's angles were more direct and his footwork more compact. i think i could help butler with this, so i'm sure rj (ten times the player and coach than i was at my best) can help him! RJ was also excellent at creating space for himself by changing pace and using his body to create an advantage. Butler just puts his head down, goes until he can’t go any further, and shoots. It doesn’t work against D1 players. But can’t fully blame him, as the previous staff didn’t really pay any attention to details and fundamentals. Fingers crossed that RJ and BN will have a positive impact on his offensive game. Of course it works against D-1 players. Check the guy's career two-point shooting percentage: .475 , which isn't far off from RJ's .492 for his career, no matter how good RJ was at creating space, changing pace, etc.. So, if AB does just "put his head down" and toss the ball, up he's making about half his shots, just as RJ did. Now, if you were to dig deeper, you might conclude that Austin Butler has had great problems with his style of play when he comes up against the cream of Division-1. He had two horrendous games versus Providence and Michigan last year and another versus Maryland to start this season. On twos, his composite is an abysmal 5/31 in those three games. Against all other teams he is over .500 on twos for his career. So, could it be that his style of play works very well when he is playing against guys who, as a team, are at his level of athleticism, but cannot, should not, must not, try to do the same thing against super quick defenders? That's this non-expert's POV. I look forward to seeing him driving to the basket and scoring the rest of the season.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 13, 2019 21:57:43 GMT -5
And/or being fouled on those drives Fine research, Ky (still hurting from last night ?)
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