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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 1, 2021 1:02:30 GMT -5
His head coaching resume is, dare I say it, Chesney-esque. Salisbury is a school with ZERO academics and has an enrollment over 8k and an acceptance rate of nearly 80 percent. Please tell me how that is Chesney-esque who won at private colleges Salve Regina and Assumption before going to HC? See--what you do is look at what kind of program the school had before your guy got there and then see how it fared when he was the coach. The size and academic standards of the school are secondary at best. Bob Chesney came to two mediocre programs and built them into winners at Salve Regina and Assumption Salve Regina Pre Chesney 04= 2-8 05= 2-6 06= 1-8 07= 2-7 08= 4-5 09= 4-6 Chesney 10= 6-4 11= 8-3 12=9-2 Assumption Pre Chesney 07= 1-7 08= 1-9 09= 6-4 10= 6-5 11= 4-6 12= 3-7 Chesney 13= 6-5 14= 7-4 15= 11-2 16= 9-3 17= 11-2 Tale a look at what Andy Sachs has done at multiple schools and report back--you'll find that he also has arrived at mediocre programs and "taken them to the next level"
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 1, 2021 1:28:22 GMT -5
I think highly of both Salve and Assumption. But I don't think either could be considered "choosy" when it comes to tuition revenue, their lifeblood. I assume Andy doesn't have open tryouts, but instead recruits his players for the most part - which he has to be at least decent at to consistently win. If your pool of potential players is not limited by academic standards, then by definition the institution has to be sold harder because it's not considered that great a school.
So there is no free lunch. You have to be skilled to be a good college coach and that includes the ability to overcome the challenges your school presents and still win.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 1, 2021 7:22:56 GMT -5
His head coaching resume is, dare I say it, Chesney-esque. Salisbury is a school with ZERO academics and has an enrollment over 8k and an acceptance rate of nearly 80 percent. Please tell me how that is Chesney-esque who won at private colleges Salve Regina and Assumption before going to HC? Do you know what UNH’s acceptance rate is?
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Post by HC92 on Dec 1, 2021 7:35:13 GMT -5
His head coaching resume is, dare I say it, Chesney-esque. Salisbury is a school with ZERO academics and has an enrollment over 8k and an acceptance rate of nearly 80 percent. Please tell me how that is Chesney-esque who won at private colleges Salve Regina and Assumption before going to HC? I know you like to disagree just to be disagreeable these days but this is idiotic. Need to choose your spots better.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 1, 2021 8:11:29 GMT -5
Foley, you probably have to be a Holy Cross grad to see how it is Cheney-esque: nothing to do with the academics of the institution but rather turning around a losing program quickly into a winning program. [I'm just "funning" with you, my friend. ]
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Post by Tom on Dec 1, 2021 8:56:02 GMT -5
I'm an Andy Sachs fan. As I was recently quoted, I thought he would have been a good hire in any of our most recent hiring cycles. That being said, in the short term, I am rooting for Coach Nelson to succeed and not giving any thought to his replacement
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 1, 2021 9:32:46 GMT -5
One of the more preposterous threads in csports history.
Have another, gents!
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Post by dadominate on Dec 1, 2021 9:41:15 GMT -5
His head coaching resume is, dare I say it, Chesney-esque. Salisbury is a school with ZERO academics and has an enrollment over 8k and an acceptance rate of nearly 80 percent. Please tell me how that is Chesney-esque who won at private colleges Salve Regina and Assumption before going to HC? sachs has recruited reasonable student-athletes salisbury. the academic profile of a school has little to do with the academic profile of their basketball players (e.g. georgetown basketball). furthermore, sachs was on the coaching staff at holy cross and obviously knows how things work in the patriot league.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 1, 2021 10:18:41 GMT -5
I think highly of both Salve and Assumption. But I don't think either could be considered "choosy" when it comes to tuition revenue, their lifeblood. I assume Andy doesn't have open tryouts, but instead recruits his players for the most part - which he has to be at least decent at to consistently win. If your pool of potential players is not limited by academic standards, then by definition the institution has to be sold harder because it's not considered that great a school. So there is no free lunch. You have to be skilled to be a good college coach and that includes the ability to overcome the challenges your school presents and still win. Jim Calhoun took over an empty basketball program (St Joes, Hartford) and got them quickly into the Top Ten nationally. D3 winning isn't as difficult as you think in hoops. Get a couple of players that should be playing at a higher level and boom you are very good. Comparing basketball to football is apples to oranges...
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Post by HC92 on Dec 1, 2021 10:23:53 GMT -5
Because it’s easier to find 22 guys who can play than 5?
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 1, 2021 10:41:51 GMT -5
And while I may be in the minority, I also believe that's true in D-1. Harder for Chesney to turn around a 90+ player team in football than a Nelson 15- player basketball team. Again, I wasn't a math major, so maybe I'm wrong.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 1, 2021 11:31:20 GMT -5
And while I may be in the minority, I also believe that's true in D-1. Harder for Chesney to turn around a 90+ player team in football than a Nelson 15- player basketball team. Again, I wasn't a math major, so maybe I'm wrong. Not sure it’s what you’re really trying to do, but the roster/program situation that Chesney inherited was drastically different than Nelson. The talent and roster stability that Chesney inherited (including future pL POY Dom Cozier) is not even comparable to the mess that Nelson walked into.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 1, 2021 11:38:20 GMT -5
You're right. It would be like if Chesney lost 60-70 players from Gilmore's team. Since that didn't happen, poor Brett had a much steeper hill to climb. Let's give him another 3-4 years. Would that be long enough for you?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 1, 2021 11:51:01 GMT -5
You're right. It would be like if Chesney lost 60-70 players from Gilmore's team. Since that didn't happen, poor Brett had a much steeper hill to climb. Let's give him another 3-4 years. Would that be long enough for you? Nope, just more like if Chesney didn’t inherit guys like PL POY Dom Cozier, “NFL Prospect” and 3-time All-PL 1st teamer Benton Whitley, etc. etc. As well as a roster that was coached by a HC and staff that was completely engaged in what they were doing, not more focused on the Jersey Shore than Mount St. James. (And nobody is advocating for Nelson to have an unlimited runway. Getting through Year 4, where he at least has a chance with some upper-classmen who he recruited, is all we should need to understand the trajectory of the program).
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Post by Tom on Dec 1, 2021 12:01:43 GMT -5
You're right. It would be like if Chesney lost 60-70 players from Gilmore's team. Since that didn't happen, poor Brett had a much steeper hill to climb. Let's give him another 3-4 years. Would that be long enough for you? As well as a roster that was coached by a HC and staff that was completely engaged in what they were doing, not more focused on the Jersey Shore than Mount St. James. . Gotta call you out on that one. While it's true in a cold hearted sense that Coach Carmody was not focused on Mount St James, there is a world of difference between being focused on the Jersey shore and being focused on the oncology wing of the local hospitak
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 1, 2021 12:16:39 GMT -5
OK, so regardless of what the record and results are this year, he gets an additional year before you'd consider a change in head coach. That's where we differ. I give him this year for make or break. And I do give him this full season.
As for football/basketball, Dom Cozier did not make any teams in the NFL but definitely was a great player and someone I keep in contact with. Benton Whitley also very good player. That's 2 guys in a roster of 90+. Nelson inherited Austin Butler. 1 of 14 +/-. I guess you discount him.
Look, we agree on many things including that Coach Carmody wasn't really focused (for good reason, IMO) the last year or more. I just believe that an excellent coach should be able to turn around a basketball program quicker than 4 years even if you concede your point the program was in the dumpster (which I don't).
Let's see how this season plays out.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 1, 2021 12:18:20 GMT -5
As well as a roster that was coached by a HC and staff that was completely engaged in what they were doing, not more focused on the Jersey Shore than Mount St. James. . Gotta call you out on that one. While it's true in a cold hearted sense that Coach Carmody was not focused on Mount St James, there is a world of difference between being focused on the Jersey shore and being focused on the oncology wing of the local hospitak Absolutely ridiculous to infer that’s what I was talking about. Carmody was disengaged from the time he was hired and still hadn’t met with the team four days later at his introductory press conference.
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Post by Ray on Dec 1, 2021 13:40:53 GMT -5
His head coaching resume is, dare I say it, Chesney-esque. Salisbury is a school with ZERO academics and has an enrollment over 8k and an acceptance rate of nearly 80 percent. Please tell me how that is Chesney-esque who won at private colleges Salve Regina and Assumption before going to HC? That was not in the scope of my comment. The scope was intended as "have won at every job they've had".
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 1, 2021 14:54:50 GMT -5
I have to assume that working under Ralph's guidance when studying opponents and implementing his approaches when working with players, Andy understands the PL better than any post RW coach has when they began their tenure.
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Post by crusader1970 on Dec 1, 2021 20:58:47 GMT -5
One of the more preposterous threads in csports history. Have another, gents! Don't agree.
When your coach's winning % is around 16%, it is natural to discuss alternatives.
Andy has done well as a head coach wherever he has been.
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Post by hceconhist on Dec 1, 2021 21:02:18 GMT -5
Hindsight is 20/20, but Dick Regan clearly should have just hired Andy Sachs in the fall of 2009. It's not even close. Either that or accept the fact that it was going to be a long-term project with Kearney as he learned how to be a head coach.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 2, 2021 2:40:47 GMT -5
One of the more preposterous threads in csports history. Have another, gents! Don't agree.
When your coach's winning % is around 16%, it is natural to discuss alternatives.
Andy has done well as a head coach wherever he has been.
I read Andy's bio to the end. He goes to the NCAA tournament as easily as HC wins press conferences introducing new head coaches.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 2, 2021 7:33:12 GMT -5
Andy would come back as an assistant -they might want to bring him in to teach offense and defense and let the others work on player development and recruiting. His first year at Chesapeake he turned things around and they had the 4th best record in the 47 year history of the program Year 2 was canceled Now in year 3 and team ranked 22 in D2
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 2, 2021 8:03:28 GMT -5
I may well be have the wrong take but I just couldn't see Brett bringing in someone like Andy who has more experience yet who isn't an obvious "senior expert" like Ralph. Brett played at the highest levels and was an assistant at a higher level program than Andy. I would think he wouldn't care for the optics. What could he learn from Andy that he knows (or thinks he knows) better than Andy? As I've posted before, I'd be surprised if Brett hasn't already consulted confidentially with his own mentors. The problem being the guys he's likely talking to have no clue, any more than Brett does, about what it takes to coach at a place like Holy Cross and the unique challenges coaching in the PL. Sorry if this sounds harsh but he seems to be a fish out of water. Maybe he'd be a coaching star at some higher level program?
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Post by trimster on Dec 2, 2021 8:23:08 GMT -5
I may well be have the wrong take but I just couldn't see Brett bringing in someone like Andy who has more experience yet who isn't an obvious "senior expert" like Ralph. Brett played at the highest levels and was an assistant at a higher level program than Andy. I would think he wouldn't care for the optics. What could he learn from Andy that he knows (or thinks he knows) better than Andy? As I've posted before, I'd be surprised if Brett hasn't already consulted confidentially with his own mentors. The problem being the guys he's likely talking to have no clue, any more than Brett does, about what it takes to coach at a place like Holy Cross and the unique challenges coaching in the PL. Sorry if this sounds harsh but he seems to be a fish out of water. Maybe he'd be a coaching star at some higher level program? The fact you played at a high level program and was an assistant at one, doesn’t mean you are going to be a good head coach. Hopefully our coach gets things turned around pronto.
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