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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 23, 2021 10:27:18 GMT -5
Goodness, the guy is a dirtbag. There is no other way to describe him. To review: 1. As an assistant at Hawaii in the 70's he was implicated in a scandal in which players received airline tickets and use of cars. 2. At Louisville, his DOBO hired strippers for recruits--he claimed to not know it was happening. 3. At Louisville, he was involved in the pay to play sneaker company scandal. Again, he claimed that if anything happened, it was an assistant's fault. 4. At Louisville, he had sex (he says it lasted only 15 seconds) in a restaurant with a woman who was not his wife, may have then paid for an abortion, and as a result put himself in a situation where an extortion attempt was possible years later. His apology only focused on the length of time between his indiscretion and when it was uncovered.He is a liar and a cheater and I am quite confident that he cheated elsewhere and just didn't get caught. Why do you think he is willing to work for mid major money? Nobody wants him. And this was key component in RW leaving HC. So furthermore - Pitino was a significant factor in the mess that HC MBB has been mostly since.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 23, 2021 10:32:03 GMT -5
No need to wonder, WCHC. After almost 60 years as a Holy Cross fan, the feeling I get during stretches with poor records is awful. Want to spin that, all the losing makes the wins more special. Small comfort comes from the knowledge that HC does try to do things the "right way" and has not hired anyone who was there for wins alone, no matter how they were obtained. It makes the wins more special... but they're not coming. 3-4 per year doesn't make it worth it, imho.
And yes to the earlier poster above he does have a track record of d-baggery. I'm not saying he'd come to HC. But do we need to pay, bribe, wine, dine, fly, etc. to get good players? We got them when we had scholarships and our peers didn't. It's a competitive marketplace. We need to offer what others cannot, or will not, to get the players needed to win basketball games. The easy path is blurring the lines, operating in the margins, deviating from the straight and narrow path. If there is a more challenging and subtle way to do it the right way, HC doesn't know it.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 23, 2021 11:09:04 GMT -5
They are coming, but so far not enough of them. Looking back, HC got some really outstanding talents without "purchasing" them with cars, cash or hookers. Iona (a school with which I am familiar) has less reluctance and Pitino is not their first coach in that category - just one who has been caught the most often. He certainly knows Xs and Os but seems willing to do whatever it takes to get talent with whom to work. Then moves on and leaves the school and team holding the bag. Is he worth the price? He is not, in my opinion.
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Post by possum on Feb 23, 2021 11:32:27 GMT -5
He left one school holding the bag, I don't remember BU, Providence or Kentucky being placed on probation after he left. You may think he has cheated at all the schools but there's no evidence to support your allegation. One thing all have in common is that their programs took a step back in success once he left.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 23, 2021 11:50:22 GMT -5
How is this for a track record?
Soon after his graduation in 1974, Pitino started as an assistant coach at the University of Hawaii. A 1977 NCAA report linked him to eight different violations, including paying for round-trip airfare for one of his players and distributing McDonald's coupons to the team. Hawaii placed on probation for 2 years.
2. In 2009, Pitino revealed that he was the victim of an extortion attempt. During the ensuing investigation, he claimed that he had a sexual encounter with Karen Cunagin Sypher in 2003 and paid for her abortion after she became pregnant. In 2010, Sypher, who demanded items like cash and luxury cars in exchange for her silence, was found guilty of extortion and lying to federal agents. While Pitino's infidelity damaged his reputation, he was retained as Louisville's head coach.
3. In 2016, Louisville self-imposed a postseason ban on its men's basketball team after an NCAA investigation confirmed a major scandal. In her book "Breaking Cardinal Rules," escort Katina Powell alleged that a number of dancers had been brought onto Louisville's campus to strip and have sex with players and recruits between 2010 and 2014. Pitino was shocked by the self-imposed penalty, but he was still slapped with additional punishments. The NCAA suspended him for the first five games of the 2017-18 ACC season for failure to monitor his program.
4.In September 2017, it was announced that Louisville was under investigation for an alleged "pay for play" scandal. While the criminal complaint did not mention specific names, it appears to involve a deal in which top recruit Brian Bowen would commit to Louisville and sign with Adidas upon turning pro.
5. On September 27, Pitino and athletic director Tom Jurich were placed on unpaid administrative leave, bringing an end to a 16-season tenure for the head coach. Pitino's camp vowed to fight the decision. ———————-
Do you think the only times Pitino played fast and loose with recruiting and ethical violations were the times he got caught (starting as an assistant coach)? If you do, I admire your optimism. I hope he is never given a position of any type at Holy Cross.
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Post by Tom on Feb 23, 2021 12:27:44 GMT -5
My point is we want something that MIGHT not be attainable unless we make compromises-and not sure that is an acceptable option by many on this board, the administration or BOT. But the older I get I would love to see success without selling my soul-therein lies the conflict I would also love to see success without selling my soul. First of all, you need to define success. If you consider the Willard era with the exception that HC pulled off one of those potential NCAA upsets, success, then I would say success is difficult, but possible. If your definition of success is higher than that, I don't think that is achievable in the ESPN era without a lot of compromises
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Post by possum on Feb 23, 2021 12:29:32 GMT -5
You don't have to worry RGS Pitino will never be the coach here. But isn't it interesting that a guy who did coach here knowing all the sorted details of Pitno's problems left to become his wing man, don't know what that says about his character, but the biggest mistake we made in this decade of futility was not taking him back because knew how to win.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 23, 2021 12:35:34 GMT -5
35 years without an issue. "That he was caught doing," I hear some of you saying, but still, 35 years is 35 years in between incidents. I want more than what RW was able to accomplish, because when he was here, there was a fair amount of complaining and heartbreak too. He was just skilled enough to mix in accomplishments. Lately, it's been all setbacks for the most part.
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Post by Tom on Feb 23, 2021 12:38:25 GMT -5
He left one school holding the bag, I don't remember BU, Providence or Kentucky being placed on probation after he left. You may think he has cheated at all the schools but there's no evidence to support your allegation. One thing all have in common is that their programs took a step back in success once he left. You are correct, there is no evidence he cheated at those three schools. There is evidence that he cheated before he started at those schools and after he was finished at those schools. We don't know. If you were to take a guess, which of the following scenarios is more likely 1) Pitino learned his lesson after Hawaii and kept his nose clean at BU, PC, and Kentucky, but by the time he got to Louisville, the landscape had changed and the pressure to win had become so great he regressed back to his earlier days 2) Pitino continued on his Hawaii path, but just didn't get caught again until Louisville. It would be a lot easier to convince me that Pitino was Nick Nolte in the Bob Cousy movie Blue Chips if he wasn't already walking down that path at Hawaii.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 23, 2021 13:43:22 GMT -5
Loved Blue Chips, but IIRC Pitino, unlike the coach played by Nolte, has never taken personal responsibility for any thing improper he has done in recruiting. He always blames it on his assistants. I am glad that RW retired (read "got away") before something was blamed on him by his good friend.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 23, 2021 14:40:37 GMT -5
How is this for a track record? Soon after his graduation in 1974, Pitino started as an assistant coach at the University of Hawaii. A 1977 NCAA report linked him to eight different violations, including paying for round-trip airfare for one of his players and distributing McDonald's coupons to the team. Hawaii placed on probation for 2 years.2. In 2009, Pitino revealed that he was the victim of an extortion attempt. During the ensuing investigation, he claimed that he had a sexual encounter with Karen Cunagin Sypher in 2003 and paid for her abortion after she became pregnant. In 2010, Sypher, who demanded items like cash and luxury cars in exchange for her silence, was found guilty of extortion and lying to federal agents. While Pitino's infidelity damaged his reputation, he was retained as Louisville's head coach. 3. In 2016, Louisville self-imposed a postseason ban on its men's basketball team after an NCAA investigation confirmed a major scandal. In her book "Breaking Cardinal Rules," escort Katina Powell alleged that a number of dancers had been brought onto Louisville's campus to strip and have sex with players and recruits between 2010 and 2014. Pitino was shocked by the self-imposed penalty, but he was still slapped with additional punishments. The NCAA suspended him for the first five games of the 2017-18 ACC season for failure to monitor his program.
4.In September 2017, it was announced that Louisville was under investigation for an alleged "pay for play" scandal. While the criminal complaint did not mention specific names, it appears to involve a deal in which top recruit Brian Bowen would commit to Louisville and sign with Adidas upon turning pro. 5. On September 27, Pitino and athletic director Tom Jurich were placed on unpaid administrative leave, bringing an end to a 16-season tenure for the head coach. Pitino's camp vowed to fight the decision. ———————- Do you think the only times Pitino played fast and loose with recruiting and ethical violations were the times he got caught (starting as an assistant coach)? If you do, I admire your optimism. I hope he is never given a position of any type at Holy Cross. That's the difference between Rick and me. I never give away my McDonald's coupons. One way I relate to this discussion is through the way my ambitions have moderated with age. I'm the same age as Pitino. I don't have the type A personality he has but if I took on a new project now I would be less driven and more interested in enjoying the process, the relationships, giving and getting good will, etc. I project that onto someone like Rick, but don't know if it is the same for supper high achievers. What does your counseling background inform you about that?
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Post by HC92 on Feb 23, 2021 14:49:03 GMT -5
It doesn’t excuse it but violating various NCAA rules to gain a competitive advantage is far more common at the big-time schools than we’d like to admit.
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Post by Crosser on Feb 23, 2021 15:04:33 GMT -5
And at the not so big time schools as well.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 23, 2021 15:35:11 GMT -5
For type A personalities getting to a goal can be paramount. As a "recovering" type A I can see how I have changed in that regard. It is said we dislike most in others the things we see in ourselves. I run into that a lot with clients (and counseling students). Super high achievers sometimes hold back - afraid that they may not be able to achieve their personal goals. Others push themselves constantly and good is never good enough. I hope my dislike for Pitino is not connected to my efforts to be a high achiever. I retired from coaching because every year I wanted my teams (and my performances as their coach) to be better than the previous year. The pressure was really starting to get to me. If Pitino is dealing with the sort of self pressure that I put on myself, I do feel bad for him. You appear to have made a most healthy transition with age and experience.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 23, 2021 16:19:12 GMT -5
Goodness, the guy is a dirtbag. There is no other way to describe him. To review: 1. As an assistant at Hawaii in the 70's he was implicated in a scandal in which players received airline tickets and use of cars. 2. At Louisville, his DOBO hired strippers for recruits--he claimed to not know it was happening. 3. At Louisville, he was involved in the pay to play sneaker company scandal. Again, he claimed that if anything happened, it was an assistant's fault. 4. At Louisville, he had sex (he says it lasted only 15 seconds) in a restaurant with a woman who was not his wife, may have then paid for an abortion, and as a result put himself in a situation where an extortion attempt was possible years later. His apology only focused on the length of time between his indiscretion and when it was uncovered.He is a liar and a cheater and I am quite confident that he cheated elsewhere and just didn't get caught. Why do you think he is willing to work for mid major money? Nobody wants him. And this was key component in RW leaving HC. So furthermore - Pitino was a significant factor in the mess that HC MBB has been mostly since. If Pitino wasn't worried that his problems and court appearances were such that he might need to absent himself from the program for a substantial period of time, FCRW wouldn't have been 'lured' to Louisville to be the associate head coach.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 23, 2021 16:53:07 GMT -5
Lurid
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 24, 2021 13:53:05 GMT -5
The school that really missed the boat on Pitino was Fordham. Zero shot he was going to be considered at Holy Cross. When you're in the A-10, you're in the "entertainment business". Fordham President, Fr. McShane would not hire Pitino. The list of reasons for not wanting to hire Pitino at an academics-first Jesuit university is very long. Maybe McShane should look himself in the mirror and re think Fordham's place in the Atlantic 10 Conference. Maybe the league affiliation isn't the right fit for the institution.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 24, 2021 15:16:18 GMT -5
I agree that Fordham seems out of place. They could be a good fit for thenPatriot League...heck they are partly on board already. Mike and the Mad Dog (mostly Chris Russo) were proud of having pressured Fordham to get out of the PL. I wonder if they are proud looking at what happened to the Rams?
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Post by thecrossisback on Feb 24, 2021 15:23:52 GMT -5
I agree that Fordham seems out of place. They could be a good fit for thenPatriot League...heck they are partly on board already. Mike and the Mad Dog (mostly Chris Russo) were proud of having pressured Fordham to get out of the PL. I wonder if they are proud looking at what happened to the Rams? Thats interesting Rgs318, I did not know that.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 25, 2021 9:52:12 GMT -5
I didn't know that either... but would just be added to the long long list of Mushes that Mike is responsible for. Mad Dog probably pays zero attention and just counts his SiriusXM blessings and fortune.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 27, 2021 19:05:07 GMT -5
Fordham is an a tough spot. Athletic donors for the most part would be very against Fordham athletics, namely Men's Basketball, going to the Patriot League. As bad as they've been I'd kind of understand that.
The way a close Fordham friend of mine put it, "If Fordham went D-III tomorrow and joined the CUNYAC, we'd find a way to be a consistent loser in Men's Baksetball".
Another anti-PL argument is that Fordham is indeed very competitive in most Olympic sports in the A-10. However, my counter to that would be that the PL is likely as good or better than the A-10 in many sports, with the obvious exception of basketball and very likely baseball/softball because of the A-10's southern footprint. Would also open up the opportunity for Fordham to explore starting a varsity lacrosse program.
Pitino would've been the shot in the arm the Rams needed to become relevant in the A-10 and they made no effort to make it happen. Speaks volumes about where Fordham belongs. IF they leave the A-10 for all sports, it's more likely they end up in the CAA in my opinion, which means we'd lose them in football.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 27, 2021 19:59:24 GMT -5
If they did hire Pitino, he would bolt for greener pastures after 1-3 years, and Fordham would be back where they started, with a deep stain on their college.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 27, 2021 20:29:54 GMT -5
They didn't and never will. Same applies to HC. This discussion is completely pointless.
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