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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 22, 2021 11:47:15 GMT -5
It does not have to be a one way street, however it is a factor of Supply and Demand......the pipeline is dry.
Based on current and projected demographics, for their possible sustainability, the current structure of most catholic religious orders will be substantially changed, or they will cease to exist.
College and Universities must plan as futurist, and shape the vision, not continue to wish for life in the 1950’s and 1960’s. Those days are long past, never to return.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 22, 2021 12:09:44 GMT -5
Hoya, I knew I ran the risk of offending you in my post and that's why I did 2 things: 1. create a new acronym never before used as far as I know (JINO) and 2. a big laughing emoji. I have great respect for Georgetown but while a very minute sampling, my trip to campus with my son as he explored colleges back in '94, I'm pretty sure you still had a Jesuit president at the time but, as I posted before, was surprised to the point of almost shocked (few things do) that the tour guide emphasized how welcoming they were to Muslims, Protestants, non-believers, etc. over the Catholicism of the school. And it was just my son and me on the tour. Maybe she assumed since we were coming from Ohio that we weren't Catholic. Georgetown has been a plurality Catholic institution in terms of enrollment since the mid-1990's--it's reflection of who applies, roughly 40% Catholic, 20% Protestant, 7% Jewish, 7% Muslim, and 20-25% unchurched. It's had a full time rabbi on staff since 1966 and a full time imam since 1999. That level of ecumenism came straight from the Jesuits, perhaps realizing that they were no longer capable of the spiritual needs of a religious polyglot. That said, the demographic trends suggest the order is likely to go dark in a couple of generations. Years ago, someone told me the Vatican saw the need to prune back the order and then build it back in the future as a more doctrinally focused group. In 2020, the average age of Jesuits is 67. That same year, a total of just 40 men entered Jesuit novitiates in North America. www.jesuits.org/stories/novices/
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 22, 2021 12:18:58 GMT -5
One of the 40, is the former Lt. Gov of the State of Washington.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 22, 2021 14:18:23 GMT -5
One of the 40, is the former Lt. Gov of the State of Washington. A potential future Congressman Drinan.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 22, 2021 14:25:07 GMT -5
I think the real question is once a Jesuit educational institution goes to a lay person, is there any chance a succeeding president might go back to being a Jesuit or is it a one-way street? It's a two way street, but a very narrow one. Trustees will feel obligated to pick a candidate who has prior administrative experience. Vince was a Dean, the next logical step is President. That covers the butt of a Trustee more than hiring a Jesuit who has been a Professor and perhaps pastoral positions.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 22, 2021 19:57:36 GMT -5
You dont think Merrimack would leave the NEC as an all-sports member to become an all-sports member of America East, with football included? They would. There would be an argument for that, but nine out of ten core members of America East are public research universities. The only private school, Hartford is leaving. Even though UMass Lowell is nearby, Merrimack might have a more closely shared mission with the NEC schools. Merrimack would soon be the only AE member who can't go to their state legislature for funding. That might get boring at league meetings when the breakout sessions are all about techniques of lobbying State Senate budget committees.😊
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Post by timholycross on Oct 22, 2021 22:14:55 GMT -5
There's tweeting going on that JMU, Marshall, Southern Miss. and ODU are heading to the Sun Belt. I think that would leave CUSA with 5 schools (MTSU, WKU, UTEP, LA Tech, FIU).
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 22, 2021 23:43:44 GMT -5
There's tweeting going on that JMU, Marshall, Southern Miss. and ODU are heading to the Sun Belt. I think that would leave CUSA with 5 schools (MTSU, WKU, UTEP, LA Tech, FIU). Will the last school to leave turn out the lights please.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2021 6:13:19 GMT -5
There's some talk that WKU and MTSU will try to get into the MAC or go back to the Sun Belt (which may not be an option). And after that you're looking at what's left of CUSA having to invite New Mexico State, Liberty + a handful of FCS schools just to stay alive, including a couple that just moved up from DII. The list of candidates would include, Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin, Tarleton State, Jacksonville State and Jackson State.
I don't even think UCONN and UMASS would hitch onto this disaster as football affiliates, that's how bad this is.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2021 6:23:08 GMT -5
Hoya, I knew I ran the risk of offending you in my post and that's why I did 2 things: 1. create a new acronym never before used as far as I know (JINO) and 2. a big laughing emoji. I have great respect for Georgetown but while a very minute sampling, my trip to campus with my son as he explored colleges back in '94, I'm pretty sure you still had a Jesuit president at the time but, as I posted before, was surprised to the point of almost shocked (few things do) that the tour guide emphasized how welcoming they were to Muslims, Protestants, non-believers, etc. over the Catholicism of the school. And it was just my son and me on the tour. Maybe she assumed since we were coming from Ohio that we weren't Catholic. Georgetown has been a plurality Catholic institution in terms of enrollment since the mid-1990's--it's reflection of who applies, roughly 40% Catholic, 20% Protestant, 7% Jewish, 7% Muslim, and 20-25% unchurched. It's had a full time rabbi on staff since 1966 and a full time imam since 1999. That level of ecumenism came straight from the Jesuits, perhaps realizing that they were no longer capable of the spiritual needs of a religious polyglot. That said, the demographic trends suggest the order is likely to go dark in a couple of generations. Years ago, someone told me the Vatican saw the need to prune back the order and then build it back in the future as a more doctrinally focused group. In 2020, the average age of Jesuits is 67. That same year, a total of just 40 men entered Jesuit novitiates in North America. www.jesuits.org/stories/novices/Sorry Clock Tower, about to take the train further off the tracks again. How would other orders of priests compare to the Jesuits as far as age demographics? Seems to me that because of the Jesuits' emphasis on education and because of their more liberal worldview, this order would be more appealing to young people than others. I also understand that the Jesuits are among the most highly selective. I have a HS acquaintance who is absolutely brilliant (Georgetown alum btw) whose dream since he was 13 years old was to become a Jesuit. And ultimately, they chose not to ordain him, told him he needed "more life experiences" and to then come back to the seminary again. When he asked his mentor, what kind of life experiences, he was specifically told "experiences with the opposite sex". Effectively, the Jesuits told him to re-enter the seminary once he'd gotten laid. Low and behold, he went off and had these experiences. Let's just say, he's now doing quite well and has made the decision to stay on the lay (no pun intended) side of the fence...
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Post by alum on Oct 23, 2021 7:50:44 GMT -5
Georgetown has been a plurality Catholic institution in terms of enrollment since the mid-1990's--it's reflection of who applies, roughly 40% Catholic, 20% Protestant, 7% Jewish, 7% Muslim, and 20-25% unchurched. It's had a full time rabbi on staff since 1966 and a full time imam since 1999. That level of ecumenism came straight from the Jesuits, perhaps realizing that they were no longer capable of the spiritual needs of a religious polyglot. That said, the demographic trends suggest the order is likely to go dark in a couple of generations. Years ago, someone told me the Vatican saw the need to prune back the order and then build it back in the future as a more doctrinally focused group. In 2020, the average age of Jesuits is 67. That same year, a total of just 40 men entered Jesuit novitiates in North America. www.jesuits.org/stories/novices/Sorry Clock Tower, about to take the train further off the tracks again. How would other orders of priests compare to the Jesuits as far as age demographics? Seems to me that because of the Jesuits' emphasis on education and because of their more liberal worldview, this order would be more appealing to young people than others. I also understand that the Jesuits are among the most highly selective. I have a HS acquaintance who is absolutely brilliant (Georgetown alum btw) whose dream since he was 13 years old was to become a Jesuit. And ultimately, they chose not to ordain him, told him he needed "more life experiences" and to then come back to the seminary again. When he asked his mentor, what kind of life experiences, he was specifically told "experiences with the opposite sex". Effectively, the Jesuits told him to re-enter the seminary once he'd gotten laid. Low and behold, he went off and had these experiences. Let's just say, he's now doing quite well and has made the decision to stay on the lay (no pun intended) side of the fence... Sorry, nycrusader, I think it’s exactly the opposite on the question of attracting young people to the priesthood. . I think that men going in the priesthood today come from the more conservative traditionalist side of the Church. I think that the more liberal worldview of the Jebbies is likely a turn off.
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Post by HC92 on Oct 23, 2021 8:01:42 GMT -5
Hoya, I have great respect for Georgetown but while a very minute sampling, my trip to campus with my son as he explored colleges back in '94, I'm pretty sure you still had a Jesuit president at the time but, as I posted before, was surprised to the point of almost shocked (few things do) that the tour guide emphasized how welcoming they were to Muslims, Protestants, non-believers, etc. over the Catholicism of the school. Believe me when I tell you you could have the same experience on a tour of alma mater in 2021.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 23, 2021 8:03:21 GMT -5
Maybe. But this was over 20 years ago.
Maybe we are just catching up to GU?😂
And Vince talked more about Jesuitical Catholicism in a half hour than I heard from his last 2 predecessors combined in their entire tenures.
Even Fr. B with his pride of accomplishment always seemed to emphasize that while we can do retreats and Spiritual Exercises (which I never took), it is a “Contemplative Center.”
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Post by steve81 on Oct 25, 2021 10:10:04 GMT -5
Some are pushing for all sports MAC with Western Kentucky. We'll know for sure if Marshalls does go to the Sun Belt on Thursday. If UMass does go, would Holy Cross make a push for the A10 and leave football in the Patriot like Fordham?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 25, 2021 10:29:01 GMT -5
No.
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Post by purplehaze on Oct 25, 2021 10:32:26 GMT -5
Was checking out some stories on line and picked up this tidbit from the Roanoke newspaper regarding student fees supporting athletics: "JMU has one of the highest student athletic fees in the country. In a 2020 NBC report, JMU’s 2017-18 student athletic fee of $2,340 was third-most in the nation."
Can someone confirm this - seems like a crazy number
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Post by rf1 on Oct 25, 2021 10:55:06 GMT -5
Was checking out some stories on line and picked up this tidbit from the Roanoke newspaper regarding student fees supporting athletics: "JMU has one of the highest student athletic fees in the country. In a 2020 NBC report, JMU’s 2017-18 student athletic fee of $2,340 was third-most in the nation." Can someone confirm this - seems like a crazy number
2021-22 James Madison Undergraduate 2021 - 2022 Auxiliary Comprehensive Fee The auxiliary comprehensive fee, listed on the student account as the comprehensive fee, is a mandatory fee charged to all students. It covers non-academic services at the university.
$5,178 per year
Intercollegiate Athletics portion of JMU Student Comprehensive Fee $2,226 Support of the intercollegiate athletic programs for men and women.
Rising student fees for athletics at state schools were such a concern in Virginia that a law was passed back in 2015 limiting what can be charged. FCS schools such as JMU were restricted to a cap of 70% of its athletics budget being paid for with student fees. The cap is 55% for FBS schools. If JMU goes FBS, the economics of its athletic dept will have to be altered.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 25, 2021 11:19:15 GMT -5
Some are pushing for all sports MAC with Western Kentucky. We'll know for sure if Marshalls does go to the Sun Belt on Thursday. If UMass does go, would Holy Cross make a push for the A10 and leave football in the Patriot like Fordham? UMASS is not leaving the A-10.
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Post by steve81 on Oct 25, 2021 12:34:09 GMT -5
Some are pushing for all sports MAC with Western Kentucky. We'll know for sure if Marshalls does go to the Sun Belt on Thursday. If UMass does go, would Holy Cross make a push for the A10 and leave football in the Patriot like Fordham? UMASS is not leaving the A-10. You maybe surprised. The A10 recent peak was in 2014. Think the upper limits is now 3 bids. Football only contracts do not last very long so that is dangerous and have been down that road. From the UMassHoops board. We'd have to schedule locally in the OOC schedule to offset the extra travel, but six teams in the A10 have MAC like travel: St. Louis, Dayton, Bonnies, Dukes, Davidson, and Richmond. If UMass cares about football, we have to go all in. The mystic eastern conference is not possible with mid-atlantic teams going to southern conferences. The AAC took 6 teams and the northern most team was in North Carolina. ODU, JMU, MArshall are going to the Sun Belt. It's crystal clear if UMass cares about football, it has to be all sports MAC.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 25, 2021 12:38:46 GMT -5
Steve81 -- didnt UMASS already make the decision not to go all-sports to the MAC? I thought thats why they were pushed out as a football affiliate.
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Post by steve81 on Oct 25, 2021 12:50:44 GMT -5
Steve81 -- didnt UMASS already make the decision not to go all-sports to the MAC? I thought thats why they were pushed out as a football affiliate. A lot has changed since 2014 and part of that decision was commissioner Benson told our AD we would get an FB only Sun Belt invite without checking with his conference members. The mystic Eastern Conference is gone. The AAC went south and UConn left. The A10 has weaken from 6 bids in 2014 to half during good years. CUSA has been dismantled. There was a chance if Marshall stayed but that did not happen. New decision makers. We have a new president, chancellor, Athletic directory and head coaches in football and basketball since 2014.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 25, 2021 12:57:29 GMT -5
A safe port in any storm I suppose, but does UMass-Amherst really want to be in a league (MAC) with mainly second-tier state universities.....and as nycru stated, to mix metaphors, haven't they been down this road before already?
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Post by steve81 on Oct 25, 2021 13:10:32 GMT -5
Yes, Buffalo, Ohio, UMass are solid names. Western Kentucky, Buffalo, Akron, Ohio, Toledo, and Kent State have all been good in basketball and even Eastern Michigan has a good year for time to time. What is the sense of supporting football half a$$. We need to commit to a conference. The MAC had an NCAA and 2 NIT invites. Add Western Kentucky and UMass, it makes a strong 1 bid conference stronger.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 25, 2021 13:26:54 GMT -5
Steve, maybe gone but the seaport and the aquarium are still there. I've seen them recently. Or, maybe you meant "mythic?"
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Post by timholycross on Oct 25, 2021 13:50:45 GMT -5
Steve, maybe gone but the seaport and the aquarium are still there. I've seen them recently. Or, maybe you meant "mythic?" Just like Dartmouth losing a game the other day in Hannover (hell of a road trip), not Hanover.
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