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Post by longsuffering on Nov 8, 2021 9:16:15 GMT -5
Agree with 92 that he’s not going to leave for a coordinator role anywhere. He’s a head coach. I also think he has roots in Worcester and possibly his home state of PA. That said, money talks. And what we write walks.😂
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Post by gks on Nov 8, 2021 9:50:15 GMT -5
As to Don Brown, he has two years on the state payroll to go to become vested for a pension, so don't discount him as an option as a placeholder at the very least while UMess sorts out a long-range plan for FB which would allow them to attract a better pool of candidates. He's a realistic option, and someone who may take it. This and Don's entire family is here in Massachusetts...or New England. Harbaugh had to make him one of the highest paid DCs in the country to get him to Michigan.
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Post by kaftan12 on Nov 8, 2021 10:44:29 GMT -5
The PL is not considered a tough league so the knock against him could be how have you done outside the league. Which makes the playoff run this year big for him. He is a smart guy and as much as 3 years of winning the PL is a nice achievement 5 in a row would yield him much better opportunities. Unless the team goes on a major playoff run, which is a long shot, he will stick around.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 8, 2021 10:51:46 GMT -5
I don't think D coordinator at BC would be much of a step up. The career path, if one wanted to model a path is Joe Moorhead, from HC at Fordham to OC at Penn State to HC at Mississippi State, which didn't pan out. He is now OC at Oregon. Don't forget Moorhead (a former QB) was a successful OC at two FBS programs before getting hired as HC back at Fordham. And then OC at Penn State. And then HC at Mississippi State. And now back to OC at Oregon. I don't necessarily see a major college hiring Chesney as OC (given his background). I'd see it more likely he moves on to a lower FBS HC job. Joe Moorhead is not a good comparison for Chesney, as he is considered one of the best Offensive Coordinators in the country. Chesney has somewhere between 1-5 years of Defensive Coordinator experience (it's tough to tell reading his bio), with his last year/highest level being Johns Hopkins in 2009. Perhaps he could go for a Special Team Coordinator at an FBS school, but I'm not sure where that would actually get him. Pete Lembo may be the right comparison for Chesney. He was 44-14 in 5 seasons at Lehigh (Chesney currently 22-15), won 8+ games every year (this could be Chesney's first), brought a team to the 1-AA Quarterfinals, and finished in the Top 25 three times (Chesney one finish at #25 so far). That level of success at Lehigh was enough to get Lembo the job at Elon, who had gone 14-42 in the previous 5 years, and whose previous coach lasted only two years. After 5 years at Elon, a 35-22 record, and three Top 25 finishes, Lembo was able to get a job the job at Ball State. The idea that Chensey's moderate level of success at HC so far is going to get him to an even decent head coaching job in 1-A FBS is pure purple fantasy land.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 8, 2021 10:56:19 GMT -5
Don't forget Moorhead (a former QB) was a successful OC at two FBS programs before getting hired as HC back at Fordham. And then OC at Penn State. And then HC at Mississippi State. And now back to OC at Oregon. I don't necessarily see a major college hiring Chesney as OC (given his background). I'd see it more likely he moves on to a lower FBS HC job. Joe Moorhead is not a good comparison for Chesney, as he is considered one of the best Offensive Coordinators in the country. Chesney has somewhere between 1-5 years of Defensive Coordinator experience (it's tough to tell reading his bio), with his last year/highest level being Johns Hopkins in 2009. Perhaps he could go for a Special Team Coordinator at an FBS school, but I'm not sure where that would actually get him. Pete Lembo may be the right comparison for Chesney. He was 44-14 in 5 seasons at Lehigh (Chesney currently 22-15), won 8+ games every year (this could be Chesney's first), brought a team to the 1-AA Quarterfinals, and finished in the Top 25 three times (Chesney one finish at #25 so far). That level of success at Lehigh was enough to get Lembo the job at Elon, who had gone 14-42 in the previous 5 years, and whose previous coach lasted only two years. After 5 years at Elon, a 35-22 record, and three Top 25 finishes, Lembo was able to get a job the job at Ball State. The idea that Chensey's moderate level of success at HC so far is going to get him to an even decent head coaching job in 1-A FBS is pure purple fantasy land. What is generally mentioned in news accounts about Chesney and possible landing spots is his turning around programs at three straight schools. That's kind of a unicorn asset that is hard to find a comparable for and hard to measure how hiring committees value.
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Post by dharry13 on Nov 8, 2021 10:57:12 GMT -5
I agree with everything bringbackcaro just stated. To me the most probable course of action for Chesney would be a higher paying, higher exposure FCS job like CAA - only because he knows that recruiting ground the best vs. a job in say the Missouri Valley Conference. My guess would be that the CAA pays better than the PL; play in a top notch conference week in an week out, and have to recruit at a high level in order to win.
I'm not saying UMASS won't come knocking on his door. But his most probable path would be like Pete Lembo did above.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 8, 2021 11:01:19 GMT -5
While I really don't want to see Chesney go, people who underestimate him do so at their peril.
And, despite the anxiety this causes some people, isn't it nice to have an actual Crusader coach that might be attractive to another, "higher," program? There's been precious few of them. Ralph likely during his multiple PL championship runs. Gilmore after his one PL championship and multiple 2nd place finishes. Neither of those maintained those peaks. Back further, probably Blaney. Maybe Paul Pearl, especially after knocking off Minnesota.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 8, 2021 11:12:38 GMT -5
Looks like Lembo has become a go-to guy for special teams. After leaving the head coach job at Ball State he handles special teams duties at Maryland, Rice, Memphis and in 2020 became Assoc Head Coach and special teams coordinator at South Carolina in 2020
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 8, 2021 11:16:39 GMT -5
Don't forget Moorhead (a former QB) was a successful OC at two FBS programs before getting hired as HC back at Fordham. And then OC at Penn State. And then HC at Mississippi State. And now back to OC at Oregon. I don't necessarily see a major college hiring Chesney as OC (given his background). I'd see it more likely he moves on to a lower FBS HC job. Joe Moorhead is not a good comparison for Chesney, as he is considered one of the best Offensive Coordinators in the country. Chesney has somewhere between 1-5 years of Defensive Coordinator experience (it's tough to tell reading his bio), with his last year/highest level being Johns Hopkins in 2009. Perhaps he could go for a Special Team Coordinator at an FBS school, but I'm not sure where that would actually get him. Pete Lembo may be the right comparison for Chesney. He was 44-14 in 5 seasons at Lehigh (Chesney currently 22-15), won 8+ games every year (this could be Chesney's first), brought a team to the 1-AA Quarterfinals, and finished in the Top 25 three times (Chesney one finish at #25 so far). That level of success at Lehigh was enough to get Lembo the job at Elon, who had gone 14-42 in the previous 5 years, and whose previous coach lasted only two years. After 5 years at Elon, a 35-22 record, and three Top 25 finishes, Lembo was able to get a job the job at Ball State. The idea that Chensey's moderate level of success at HC so far is going to get him to an even decent head coaching job in 1-A FBS is pure purple fantasy land. What is generally mentioned in news accounts about Chesney and possible landing spots is his turning around programs at three straight schools. That's kind of a unicorn asset that is hard to find a comparable for and hard to measure how hiring committees value.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 8, 2021 11:22:17 GMT -5
I agree with everything bringbackcaro just stated. To me the most probable course of action for Chesney would be a higher paying, higher exposure FCS job like CAA - only because he knows that recruiting ground the best vs. a job in say the Missouri Valley Conference. My guess would be that the CAA pays better than the PL; play in a top notch conference week in an week out, and have to recruit at a high level in order to win. I'm not saying UMASS won't come knocking on his door. But his most probable path would be like Pete Lembo did above. If HC can't match an offer from the CAA for Chesney who has coached 3% of HC FB seasons yet has 40% of the post season appearances, which could be 50% in three weeks, it is time for some turnover amongst TPTB.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 8, 2021 11:25:24 GMT -5
I agree with everything bringbackcaro just stated. To me the most probable course of action for Chesney would be a higher paying, higher exposure FCS job like CAA - only because he knows that recruiting ground the best vs. a job in say the Missouri Valley Conference. My guess would be that the CAA pays better than the PL; play in a top notch conference week in an week out, and have to recruit at a high level in order to win. I'm not saying UMASS won't come knocking on his door. But his most probable path would be like Pete Lembo did above. Clawson was another guy who had a pit stop in the CAA en route to an FBS job. But as another poster said, I'd be embarrassed if we couldn't match an offer from a UNH, Villanova or Delaware to hang onto Chesney.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 8, 2021 11:35:10 GMT -5
I agree with everything bringbackcaro just stated. To me the most probable course of action for Chesney would be a higher paying, higher exposure FCS job like CAA - only because he knows that recruiting ground the best vs. a job in say the Missouri Valley Conference. My guess would be that the CAA pays better than the PL; play in a top notch conference week in an week out, and have to recruit at a high level in order to win. I'm not saying UMASS won't come knocking on his door. But his most probable path would be like Pete Lembo did above. Clawson was another guy who had a pit stop in the CAA en route to an FBS job. But as another poster said, I'd be embarrassed if we couldn't match an offer from a UNH, Villanova or Delaware to hang onto Chesney. Embarrassed is a good way to put it. Mired in school wide losing programs and you let your one winner leave for an FCS lateral transfer?
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Post by hcpride on Nov 8, 2021 12:15:08 GMT -5
There’s a good bit of room between us and the better FCS programs. It’s conceivable he could go higher level FCS (this is not a Carter situation where we already were highest level FCS.)
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 8, 2021 12:18:08 GMT -5
There’s a good bit of room between us and the better FCS programs. It’s conceivable he could go higher level FCS (this is not a Carter situation where we already were highest level FCS.) I'd accept it if he were to go to a Montana, North Dakota State or James Madison (regardless of pending Sun Belt move). But I'd probably break something in my living room if we let him go to Maine or UNH.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 8, 2021 12:34:36 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Nov 8, 2021 12:37:24 GMT -5
$$$ obviously can talk but I'm not sure any FCS program can substantially change the calculus vis a vis Chesney. Apologies to my midwestern friends, but take a job in Fargo, North Dakota or Youngstown, Ohio for 100-200K more a year? Maybe he would, but that would be a tough call on his part given the situation he has and has built at HC.
As hcpride noted above, we are (or perceived to be anyway) at a different level than we were in 1985. ACC (and other P5) schools aren't looking at head coaches at our level as their next savior. If and when Chesney does move on, it will probably be to either an FBS school as a coach or coordinator or to an Ivy as a head coach.
All the NE Ivies seem to be fairly stable with their head coaching positions currently....but that could change in a couple years.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 8, 2021 12:40:27 GMT -5
$$$ obviously can talk but I'm not sure any FCS program can substantially change the calculus vis a vis Chesney. Apologies to my midwestern friends, but take a job in Fargo, North Dakota or Youngstown, Ohio for 100-200K more a year? Maybe he would, but that would be a tough call on his part given the situation he has and has built at HC. As hcpride noted above, we are (or perceived to be anyway) at a different level than we were in 1985. ACC (and other P5) schools aren't looking at head coaches at our level as their next savior. If and when Chesney does move on, it will probably be to either an FBS school as a coach or coordinator or to an Ivy as a head coach. All the NE Ivies seem to be fairly stable with their head coaching positions currently....but that could change in a couple years. That Brown coach needs to learn to coach some defense...Those scores are amazing ;-)
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Post by hc87 on Nov 8, 2021 12:43:25 GMT -5
$$$ obviously can talk but I'm not sure any FCS program can substantially change the calculus vis a vis Chesney. Apologies to my midwestern friends, but take a job in Fargo, North Dakota or Youngstown, Ohio for 100-200K more a year? Maybe he would, but that would be a tough call on his part given the situation he has and has built at HC. As hcpride noted above, we are (or perceived to be anyway) at a different level than we were in 1985. ACC (and other P5) schools aren't looking at head coaches at our level as their next savior. If and when Chesney does move on, it will probably be to either an FBS school as a coach or coordinator or to an Ivy as a head coach. All the NE Ivies seem to be fairly stable with their head coaching positions currently....but that could change in a couple years. That Brown coach needs to learn to coach some defense...Those scores are amazing ;-) Perry is a great offensive coach...if he was able to get his D to step up somewhat, I think Brown could be in the Ivy mix....and no, I'm not implying Chesney would leave HC to be Brown's D coordinator here.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 8, 2021 13:02:04 GMT -5
That Brown coach needs to learn to coach some defense...Those scores are amazing ;-) Perry is a great offensive coach...if he was able to get his D to step up somewhat, I think Brown could be in the Ivy mix....and no, I'm not implying Chesney would leave HC to be Brown's D coordinator here. Yea, I was just commenting on the scores they have had...just amazing they can't play a lick of defense.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 8, 2021 13:05:17 GMT -5
Don't forget Moorhead (a former QB) was a successful OC at two FBS programs before getting hired as HC back at Fordham. And then OC at Penn State. And then HC at Mississippi State. And now back to OC at Oregon. I don't necessarily see a major college hiring Chesney as OC (given his background). I'd see it more likely he moves on to a lower FBS HC job. Pete Lembo may be the right comparison for Chesney. He was 44-14 in 5 seasons at Lehigh (Chesney currently 22-15), won 8+ games every year (this could be Chesney's first), brought a team to the 1-AA Quarterfinals, and finished in the Top 25 three times (Chesney one finish at #25 so far). That level of success at Lehigh was enough to get Lembo the job at Elon, who had gone 14-42 in the previous 5 years, and whose previous coach lasted only two years. After 5 years at Elon, a 35-22 record, and three Top 25 finishes, Lembo was able to get a job the job at Ball State. This is a smart post. Over the past 20 years, there are four PL head coaches who have "moved up" to bigger jobs after coaching in the PL -- Kevin Higgins (Lehigh) to The Citadel. He's now the AHC at Wake. Pete Lembo (Lehigh) to Elon to Ball State. He's not the AHC at South Carolina. Interestingly enough, Lembo left his head coaching job at Ball State to become the AHC and ST coordinator at Maryland. Dave Clawson (Fordham) to Richmond to Tennessee (OC) to Bowling Green to Wake. Joe Moorhead (Fordham) to Penn St (OC) to Miss St to Oregon (OC) No coach has gone right from being a PL head coach to an FBS head coach. Although, I don't think any of us would be surprised if Chesney was the leading candidate at UConn or UMass. It does seem like there's another stone Chesney might need to step on before getting to a more steady and legitimate FBS program. The Dave Clawson path seems like one Chesney could be on. Here's the major difference between Chesney and these four coaches -- Holy Cross is the third program that Chesney has been the head coach at. For the preceding four names, their stop at PL schools was their first time being a head coach. There definitely is something to be said for Chesney winning at every school he's been. Which CAA coaches are on the hot seat? I'm sure Chesney's name will be a popular one in those circles.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 8, 2021 13:08:16 GMT -5
Coach Chesney has lived in New England since 2010 and I'm guessing he has made one move of 50 miles from RI to Worcester. I don't know if he's moved within Worcester, but maybe he likes where he lives and his three children like their school and friends. I'm not suggesting he'd turn down a $3MM contract to coach Stanford but maybe staying and continuing to build this nice program at Holy Cross is more appealing than uprooting the family to make $150,000 more 1,000 miles away. I'm all for paying him and his assistants more money to keep them however.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 8, 2021 13:48:31 GMT -5
$$$ obviously can talk but I'm not sure any FCS program can substantially change the calculus vis a vis Chesney. Apologies to my midwestern friends, but take a job in Fargo, North Dakota or Youngstown, Ohio for 100-200K more a year? Maybe he would, but that would be a tough call on his part given the situation he has and has built at HC. As hcpride noted above, we are (or perceived to be anyway) at a different level than we were in 1985. ACC (and other P5) schools aren't looking at head coaches at our level as their next savior. If and when Chesney does move on, it will probably be to either an FBS school as a coach or coordinator or to an Ivy as a head coach. All the NE Ivies seem to be fairly stable with their head coaching positions currently....but that could change in a couple years. But, would an Ivy leave a fiercely competitive coach cold? Ten games, no NCAA? Is Chez ready for a pipe and slippers?
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Post by timholycross on Nov 8, 2021 14:21:54 GMT -5
As to Don Brown, he has two years on the state payroll to go to become vested for a pension, so don't discount him as an option as a placeholder at the very least while UMess sorts out a long-range plan for FB which would allow them to attract a better pool of candidates. He's a realistic option, and someone who may take it. This and Don's entire family is here in Massachusetts...or New England. Harbaugh had to make him one of the highest paid DCs in the country to get him to Michigan. There's a kid at BBN who Michigan recruited and got a verbal committment from when the kid was entering high school. When Brown got fired, he ditched Michigan and, lo and behold, he signed with Arizona (entering in the fall of 2022). So if Brown becomes the head coach of Umass, does he ditch AZ? Michigan to Arizona to Umass. Makes perfect sense!
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Post by timholycross on Nov 8, 2021 14:24:21 GMT -5
While I really don't want to see Chesney go, people who underestimate him do so at their peril. And, despite the anxiety this causes some people, isn't it nice to have an actual Crusader coach that might be attractive to another, "higher," program? There's been precious few of them. Ralph likely during his multiple PL championship runs. Gilmore after his one PL championship and multiple 2nd place finishes. Neither of those maintained those peaks. Back further, probably Blaney. Maybe Paul Pearl, especially after knocking off Minnesota. George went out to Wyoming in the late 70s/early 80s. Don't know if he got offered the job, there's a person or two that knows him better than I that could say yea or nay for sure. Don't know if he had any other offers between that and Seton Hall.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 8, 2021 14:26:52 GMT -5
$$$ obviously can talk but I'm not sure any FCS program can substantially change the calculus vis a vis Chesney. Apologies to my midwestern friends, but take a job in Fargo, North Dakota or Youngstown, Ohio for 100-200K more a year? Maybe he would, but that would be a tough call on his part given the situation he has and has built at HC. As hcpride noted above, we are (or perceived to be anyway) at a different level than we were in 1985. ACC (and other P5) schools aren't looking at head coaches at our level as their next savior. If and when Chesney does move on, it will probably be to either an FBS school as a coach or coordinator or to an Ivy as a head coach. All the NE Ivies seem to be fairly stable with their head coaching positions currently....but that could change in a couple years. But, would an Ivy leave a fiercely competitive coach cold? Ten games, no NCAA? Is Chez ready for a pipe and slippers? Some changes will definitely happen in that league in the next 5 years. Murphy, Teevens and Bagnoli are getting up there in age. Two out of three of those jobs would be tough to say "no" to.
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