|
Post by bison137 on Dec 4, 2021 20:22:32 GMT -5
There might be a buyout for less than full value. That is not uncommon. Very unlikely, however, that there is any contract clause relating to poor team performance.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 4, 2021 20:44:57 GMT -5
OK, That's what I was really asking, not having to pay the full face value of the contract. I wasn't looking for the coach needs to win "X" games per se, just that if in the estimation of the AD or administration the job isn't getting done, the coach gets fired without having to take a bath.
My outlook is colored by "employment at will" days that essentially let a company fire someone for any reason. I recognize that coaches contracts are probably different and lawsuits abound (see: Bill Gibbons, who wasn't actually fired, his contract just wasn't renewed).
|
|
|
Post by longtimehcbbfan on Dec 4, 2021 20:46:51 GMT -5
Maybe we should have hired Rick Pitino
|
|
|
Post by matunuck on Dec 4, 2021 22:02:13 GMT -5
Short of committing a crime or major violation, Nelson is finishing the season and then a new AD will evaluate. Can’t imagine this evaluation will take longer than 2.7 nanoseconds.
|
|
|
Post by cmo on Dec 4, 2021 22:12:07 GMT -5
It would be great if contracts just paid coaches by win (more for good wins and less for less good wins), GPA and graduation rates. But that’s not the way it works. If we offered Nelson 100k for the season, or 10k a win, he’d take the 100 grand.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 4, 2021 22:34:16 GMT -5
There is no indication that any of the players or coaches aren't working hard to turn this season around. We don't hear any scuttlebutt on the board about excuse making or playing the blame game by anyone, no known behavior problems or suspensions. That counts for something.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 4, 2021 22:38:24 GMT -5
There is no indication that any of the players or coaches aren't working hard to turn this season around. We don't hear any scuttlebutt on the board about excuse making or playing the blame game by anyone, no known behavior problems or suspensions. That counts for something. Nelson has a sweet gig in that there aren’t any postgame interviews or weekly shows he has to do. He’s largely able to skate by and cash a check that’s worth a lot of money every two weeks while the program continues to move backwards. Great work if you can get it.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 4, 2021 22:47:02 GMT -5
There is no indication that any of the players or coaches aren't working hard to turn this season around. We don't hear any scuttlebutt on the board about excuse making or playing the blame game by anyone, no known behavior problems or suspensions. That counts for something. Nelson has a sweet gig in that there aren’t any postgame interviews or weekly shows he has to do. He’s largely able to skate by and cash a check that’s worth a lot of money every two weeks while the program continues to move backwards. Great work if you can get it. And Woodward and Bernstein, er I mean Jen Toland isn't asking the hard but logical questions either. We could well have evidence of excuse making or playing the blame game if there were interviews. But there's no turnover in the roster or staff, either. Hard to tell. I'm still feeling empathy at this point.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Dec 5, 2021 0:17:58 GMT -5
It would be great if contracts just paid coaches by win (more for good wins and less for less good wins), GPA and graduation rates. But that’s not the way it works. If we offered Nelson 100k for the season, or 10k a win, he’d take the 100 grand. I know this is never going to happen in the real world but . . . If you offered $15k per conference win, 5K for OOC wins over teams 200 or worse (we can agree on which computer ranking to use), 20K for teams better than 200 and 50K for teams better than 100, you’d have some interesting incentives. GPA and graduation rate would have to be mixed in. Player retention would be another good one. This year Nelson would make $60K-ish. If Ralph had this type of deal, he could have done pretty well for himself.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Dec 5, 2021 10:36:07 GMT -5
I read here all the time about "having to pay for two head coaches." Are there any ADs out there, including former AD Blossom, who might have been smart enough to have written a contract with non-performance clauses or where the buyout would be greatly reduced from having to pay out a full contract? Especially for a young guy with no head coaching experience. I may be having phantom memories but thought in years gone by that when a coach got the ax before the contract expired they got little or nothing as long as there were substantial reasons for that action. Nowadays, all we hear about is fired coaches walking away with big bucks but that's usually the power conferences. I am not optimistic that even if there are contracts out there with these "outs" that our former AD would have done that. I do recall that Regan had a contract with Brown that was extended automatically for something like winning 20 games or having a winning season, which he met. If a contract has performance bonuses, they should also have non-performance clauses/penalties. Any contract lawyers out there? Don't need a lawyer. You can write almost anything you want into a contract. No one is writing termination clauses into contracts based on performance. If you're really that concerned that a coach is going to stink, you shouldn't be hiring him
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 5, 2021 11:29:30 GMT -5
Big mistake for anyone to write a contract without consultation with a lawyer (and I am not a big fan of the legal profession). So, my friend, would you concede that Regan, Pine and Blossom all thought their basketball coach picks were good ones and not going to fail (at least in the eyes of those who either fired or non-renewed contracts) or in your words, "stink?" Even Chesney said the other day that it is a profession (coaching) in which almost everyone ultimately gets fired (I'm paraphrasing). I think I can say with great confidence that after TG won the PL championship and contended for years that no one thought in a few years he'd be fired mid-season. Gibbons is a whole other kettle of fish. I am also not a big believer in positions that work on almost pure commission (i.e. insurance agents come to mind) because to me it's based on lack of faith that the employee (or agent) can't be trusted to work hard without a financial incentive. But, if a coach is going to have bonus incentives, I believe there should be a cheap buy-out built into contracts even though both parties have visions of sugarplums when they sign on the dotted line. We can all disagree as this is an opinion board but those are my thoughts and the HC coaches and potential future coaches better hope I don't ever become Holy Cross AD!
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 5, 2021 11:47:37 GMT -5
The 4-5 year contract for current assistant coaches who will learn by trial and error how to become a head coach on the school's dime might exist mainly because of industry tradition. Would Nelson or Kearney have rejected a one year annual renewable contract, the same as they currently had as assistants, with a 20% raise, relocation expenses and the chance to begin their D-1 head coaching journey?
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Dec 5, 2021 11:52:37 GMT -5
The 4-5 year contract for current assistant coaches who will learn by trial and error how to become a head coach on the school's dime might exist mainly because of industry tradition. Would Nelson or Kearney have rejected a one year annual renewable contract, the same as they currently had as assistants, with a 20% raise, relocation expenses and the chance to begin their D-1 head coaching journey? I'm sure they would have rejected a one-year deal. And it's probable they had deals for more than one year as assistants.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 5, 2021 12:05:28 GMT -5
The 4-5 year contract for current assistant coaches who will learn by trial and error how to become a head coach on the school's dime might exist mainly because of industry tradition. Would Nelson or Kearney have rejected a one year annual renewable contract, the same as they currently had as assistants, with a 20% raise, relocation expenses and the chance to begin their D-1 head coaching journey? I'm sure they would have rejected a one-year deal. And it's probable they had deals for more than one year as assistants. Would a current PL assistant on a one year deal reject that offer at another PL school, or his/her own school? Obviously some might but do you think most would? I guess my opinion is that schools give chosen applicants bargaining power that I can't value or understand. And obviously neither party would plan to or want to terminate the contract after one year.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Dec 5, 2021 13:36:49 GMT -5
So, my friend, would you concede that Regan, Pine and Blossom all thought their basketball coach picks were good ones and not going to fail (at least in the eyes of those who either fired or non-renewed contracts) or in your words, "stink?" Yup
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 5, 2021 13:51:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Dec 5, 2021 16:23:20 GMT -5
The primary reason for 4-5 year contracts is recruiting. Hard to recruit if you may not be there next year. I suspect recruiting will become harder for Nelson and staff both because of all the losing and the uncertainty as to who will be the coach next year or the year after.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 5, 2021 17:44:41 GMT -5
One year contracts or employee at will arrangements would focus the recruiting more on the school rather than the personality and style of the coach.
Yet another reason for HC not to currently offer OJT to career assistants is because as Ky 75 says recruiting is selling and a head coach can sell either his own track record or the school's track record. When the results of that are no track record and a losing one, what do you have to sell? The school itself and you can do that on a one year deal as well as a five year one.
Another reason is who at HC is qualified to conduct that OJT the same way a Ron Perry, Sr. could, for example.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Dec 5, 2021 18:54:51 GMT -5
Our next coach will get a 4-5 year contract just like every other new D1 head coach in America.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 5, 2021 19:05:09 GMT -5
Our next coach will get a 4-5 year contract just like every other new D1 head coach in America. As the kid in the old Jimmy Fund billboard at Fenway Park (before the current owners commercialized that space) said "I can dream can't I?" 😊
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 5, 2021 20:23:36 GMT -5
I don’t mind a 4-5 year contract. I mind that if they are total screw ups that they walk away with the 4-5 year dollars getting paid for failure. I recognize that some contracts are written so the school only pays any shortfall in salary when/if the failed coach gets another job.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Dec 5, 2021 20:32:40 GMT -5
You don't get great jobs after dumpster fires.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Dec 5, 2021 20:46:23 GMT -5
You seem to be implying that our men's basketball coach might not be moving on to Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky after he finishes with Holy Cross.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Dec 5, 2021 21:00:03 GMT -5
You seem to be implying that our men's basketball coach might not be moving on to Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky after he finishes with Holy Cross. Well he played at Florida under a current NBA head coach and was the top assistant at Marquette. He will get a job fairly easily after HC.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 5, 2021 21:16:13 GMT -5
You seem to be implying that our men's basketball coach might not be moving on to Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky after he finishes with Holy Cross. Well he played at Florida under a current NBA head coach and was the top assistant at Marquette. He will get a job fairly easily after HC. Certainly not a head coaching job. Back to sitting in the third or fourth seat of some below average Power 5 program.
|
|