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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 9, 2021 10:51:36 GMT -5
Was at the game last night, after a nice steak at Joseph’s Steakhouse. The team looked very good in the first half, pressure D and an efficient O. Second half, FU adjusted, and HC had no answer. Was with a couple non HC or FU hoop fans. They thought HC was the better team, FWIW. The team played respectable first halves against AF, Q and FU. The team’s second half collapses are perplexing.It seems we collapse when we come out to start the second half-- here is the composite by quarter (KenPom provides the score by 10 minute segments) for the 8 games--average score for HC and opponent Team= Avg Points in 1st Qtr--2nd Qtr--3rd Qtr--4th Qtr
HC= 13.5--15.6--11.9--19.5 OPP=17.0--17.8--21.8--20.0So we go into the locker room at the half down 5 or 6 points (we actually led in 2 games and were tied in one), then come out and are outscored by 10 points in the first 10 minutes of the second half. We play even in the last 10 minutes--maybe our opponents have the subs in towards the game's end as they are up15 points on us after 30 minutes.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 9, 2021 11:13:45 GMT -5
It takes us a quarter to counter punch their halftime adjustments.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 9, 2021 11:29:58 GMT -5
It takes us a quarter to counter punch their halftime adjustments. How long would it have taken Ralph--maybe 2 possessions?
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 9, 2021 11:37:32 GMT -5
It takes us a quarter to counter punch their halftime adjustments. How long would it have taken Ralph--maybe 2 possessions? That's where this staff can improve. If you know your opponent like the back of your hand from exhaustive film study with a trained eye, you can prepare responses in advance to all their previously known adjustments. I know Ralph would assign one assistant to micromanage each upcoming opponent because that assistant would appear at the pre-game "Hoops Hospitality" session run by former Asst. AD Frank M. for "chalk talk" about that night's game. Andy Sachs shined during those sessions.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 9, 2021 13:01:05 GMT -5
Just to play devil's advocate: exactly what "adjustments" did FF make in the second half that were not countered, outside of maybe bearing down some on the defensive end, and their hitting a few open 3's that they missed in the first half. Not being a wise guy, just trying to understand.
GG and MT I assume are the 2 oldest guys on the team; I'm curious about their personalities, and whether or not the younger guys defer/look up to them at all (thinking back to RW's thought on deferring vs. leading). I feel like the team really needed some on the floor leadership in the latter part of these last 2 games. CBN can call time outs and yell "hey, don't make all these stupid passes when we get down a couple of baskets!", but I think it helps when a team is mature enough to police themselves a bit. I'm hoping RJJ can provide some of this in time. I don't see how they can win until that starts happening (some self policing).
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Post by efg72 on Dec 9, 2021 14:36:31 GMT -5
Actually think RJJ is the hope for leadership but he only played 23 min last night
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Post by alumni111 on Dec 9, 2021 17:48:22 GMT -5
We are short, inexperienced, and poorly coached. It's not a good combination. Similar to last game, we came out with a lot of energy and took our opponent by surprise. Then at halftime they got focused, clamped down the D, and ran all over us in the second half. I feel so bad for our players. They are working so hard. They deserve better. The players have deserved better since RW left (I'm going to give Carmody an incomplete). Biggest fear is that when BN gets blown out that RJ Evans will go with him. High-character, very personable guy who has roots and been around some good coaches. Might be ready for his own program, or would be ready after a few more years at HC with a coach who knows what he's doing.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 9, 2021 18:34:09 GMT -5
With respect to RJE I think that is where alums can weigh in- We should never throw out the baby with the bath water Nelson and his staff took an enormous professional risk
We should give him/them a full payout plus, it is not his fault that he is not a head coach or the situation he inherited Evans might be a candidate for the job, although not a guarantee Give Nelson 1.5 years salary and find a way for him to leave his current position with dignity and grace- it is only money and we need to move forward. I would then move him into the Athletic Department to consult at a fee so he can get anpother job
Evans is talented, albeit we don’t know if he is a head coach or a talented Assistant Head Coach
Important to remember we got hammered after the Kearney firing by the hoops community
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2021 7:47:37 GMT -5
With respect to RJE I think that is where alums can weigh in- We should never throw out the baby with the bath water Nelson and his staff took an enormous professional risk We should give him/them a full payout plus, it is not his fault that he is not a head coach or the situation he inherited Evans might be a candidate for the job, although not a guarantee Give Nelson 1.5 years salary and find a way for him to leave his current position with dignity and grace- it is only money and we need to move forward. I would then move him into the Athletic Department to consult at a fee so he can get anpother job Evans is talented, albeit we don’t know if he is a head coach or a talented Assistant Head Coach Important to remember we got hammered after the Kearney firing by the hoops community How many troops does the "hoops community" have? If the replacement coach was another RW that hammer would turn into two thumbs up pdq. I do get tired of these unwritten rules of what a coach deserves or doesn't deserve. The more tied to reality a coach's tenure is the better. The only weapon the "hoops community" has is wagging tounges. Far better to be true to thine own school.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 10, 2021 7:53:42 GMT -5
The hoops community being the college coaching community-only a handful wanted to touch a job where you would be fired after one year
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2021 8:20:41 GMT -5
The hoops community being the college coaching community-only a handful wanted to touch a job where you would be fired after one year I respect your knowledge of the basketball community, but I think that's another myth, that unemployed or underemployed college coaches are calling the shots and not the limited number of D-1 colleges who have an opening. College coaches who do not currently have a D-1 head coaching gig do not hire Parker Executive Search Co. to screen potential schools. What type of leader with confidence in his/her skills turns away a head coach offer to stay an assistant or stay unemployed because the college fired the previous coach after one year but is paying him for four? That's the best job security you can get - the natural desire of a school to not pay three coaches at the same time. Sorry to drag this out, and I'm rooting for our current coaching staff to turn things around, but those are my thoughts based on how I've observed the world to work.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 10, 2021 8:32:25 GMT -5
We are all hoping for a turn around and real world evidence the team is improving.
Starting over again has been like Groundhog Day, and like all of us getting old. The current staff needs to make the necessary changes to improve now, and start teaching this group to win. Total wins this year are important, but meaningful signs of improvement will go a long way to turning this around so we can avoid a repeat of changes over the past decade.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2021 10:22:32 GMT -5
With respect to RJE I think that is where alums can weigh in- We should never throw out the baby with the bath water Nelson and his staff took an enormous professional risk We should give him/them a full payout plus, it is not his fault that he is not a head coach or the situation he inherited Evans might be a candidate for the job, although not a guarantee Give Nelson 1.5 years salary and find a way for him to leave his current position with dignity and grace- it is only money and we need to move forward. I would then move him into the Athletic Department to consult at a fee so he can get anpother job Evans is talented, albeit we don’t know if he is a head coach or a talented Assistant Head Coach Important to remember we got hammered after the Kearney firing by the hoops community I don't recall any profiles of the coaches that would indicate if one is a defensive specialist or designs offensive sets or is a lead recruiter or lead scout of upcoming opponents, or one works with the bigs, etc. Would you say the best info after three years is that all four coaches are generalists?
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Post by Tom on Dec 10, 2021 10:54:28 GMT -5
The hoops community being the college coaching community-only a handful wanted to touch a job where you would be fired after one year I respect your knowledge of the basketball community, but I think that's another myth, that unemployed or underemployed college coaches are calling the shots and not the limited number of D-1 colleges who have an opening. College coaches who do not currently have a D-1 head coaching gig do not hire Parker Executive Search Co. to screen potential schools. What type of leader with confidence in his/her skills turns away a head coach offer to stay an assistant or stay unemployed because the college fired the previous coach after one year but is paying him for four? That's the best job security you can get - the natural desire of a school to not pay three coaches at the same time. Sorry to drag this out, and I'm rooting for our current coaching staff to turn things around, but those are my thoughts based on how I've observed the world to work. Not discussing our current staff, but just the concept of what the coaching community thinks. . . There are some coaches who would jump at any opportunity to coach D-I. There are also some others who hear a place is a #$&^hole to work and calculate that into the thinking. Perhaps, like Coach Brown, use that horrible rep to negotiate from a position of strength and put a very low bar in for automatic contract extension. Still others might bypass the whole thing. Outlandish scenario: Would a guy like Coach Chesney whose star is on the rise jump at UMass if it was the first BCS school to come knocking? Might a candidate look at that job as an independent school in today's landscape and decide the ceiling is so low that Knute Rockne couldn't make that place win enough for the coach to earn the next step on the ladder. I agree that no matter how lousy your reputation, you will be able to find someone to coach. However, I also think your list of candidates will be smaller and you could end up settling.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 10, 2021 12:03:45 GMT -5
Re: Chesney. Obviously, 99% of us don't want him to leave; but there's also a subset of jobs no one wants him to get for his sake as much as ours. Umass would have been one of those.
We took a blow when Kearney got canned but I think that went away after a few years when Kearney's career never got back on track. If he had anything substantial to offer, someone in the "hoops community" would have given him a better job than the one he ended up with and stuck with.
Good question as to whether Milan leaving hurt HC's rep. Carmody retired and there were no ramifications from that, I'm sure.
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Post by Tom on Dec 10, 2021 13:04:46 GMT -5
Re: Chesney. Obviously, 99% of us don't want him to leave; but there's also a subset of jobs no one wants him to get for his sake as much as ours. Umass would have been one of those. We took a blow when Kearney got canned but I think that went away after a few years when Kearney's career never got back on track. If he had anything substantial to offer, someone in the "hoops community" would have given him a better job than the one he ended up with and stuck with. Good question as to whether Milan leaving hurt HC's rep. Carmody retired and there were no ramifications from that, I'm sure. I don't think so. Almost everyone gets fired at some point. HC didn't destroy Coach Brown. He had another job right away. Maybe not a head coach, but a coaching job. On some level, HC killed Coach Kearney's career. He has never coached again. While I might argue that Coach Kearney destroyed his own career, it is possible someone removed from the situation might look at HC, say they never gave their basketball coach a chance, and destroyed his career,. It is possible a very good, confidant coach might not want to rush to a school that had a reputation of destroying careers without giving you a fair chance. Might not even take the time to see if that reputation was merited. Getting rid of Coach Kearney was a proper move, but it also made the HC athletics department a less desirable place to work. Hopefully, a decade later, that's ancient history
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2021 13:51:22 GMT -5
Re: Chesney. Obviously, 99% of us don't want him to leave; but there's also a subset of jobs no one wants him to get for his sake as much as ours. Umass would have been one of those. We took a blow when Kearney got canned but I think that went away after a few years when Kearney's career never got back on track. If he had anything substantial to offer, someone in the "hoops community" would have given him a better job than the one he ended up with and stuck with. Good question as to whether Milan leaving hurt HC's rep. Carmody retired and there were no ramifications from that, I'm sure. I don't think so. Almost everyone gets fired at some point. HC didn't destroy Coach Brown. He had another job right away. Maybe not a head coach, but a coaching job. On some level, HC killed Coach Kearney's career. He has never coached again. While I might argue that Coach Kearney destroyed his own career, it is possible someone removed from the situation might look at HC, say they never gave their basketball coach a chance, and destroyed his career,. It is possible a very good, confidant coach might not want to rush to a school that had a reputation of destroying careers without giving you a fair chance. Might not even take the time to see if that reputation was merited. Getting rid of Coach Kearney was a proper move, but it also made the HC athletics department a less desirable place to work. Hopefully, a decade later, that's ancient history Good points. I don't have direct access to the coaching community but I have interacted with people who have appointed themselves as unofficial police of the unwritten rules of sports and that gets tiresome. I think when one party exercises their rights under a contract both sides agreed to, neither party is ruining the other. RW didn't ruin HC when he left and HC didn't ruin SK when he left, imo.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 10, 2021 14:05:09 GMT -5
Re: Chesney. Obviously, 99% of us don't want him to leave; but there's also a subset of jobs no one wants him to get for his sake as much as ours. Umass would have been one of those. We took a blow when Kearney got canned but I think that went away after a few years when Kearney's career never got back on track. If he had anything substantial to offer, someone in the "hoops community" would have given him a better job than the one he ended up with and stuck with. Good question as to whether Milan leaving hurt HC's rep. Carmody retired and there were no ramifications from that, I'm sure. If Coach Chesney went to UMass, I think it would take him a little longer than his three previous projects, but I think he would turn that program around to at least a six win bowl team in a few years. UMass isn't bad enough to be his Waterloo. Actually, I think if UMass starting winning in FBS it would be Coach Cal two point oh, all along the turnpike from Stockbridge to Boston, to steal a line from James Taylor.
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Post by Tom on Dec 10, 2021 15:22:13 GMT -5
I have interacted with people who have appointed themselves as unofficial police of the unwritten rules of sports and that gets tiresome. Other than baseball, where there is an established and simple enforcement policy for unwritten rules. Also simplified by rolling the judge, jury, and executioner into one person
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