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Post by alum on Dec 16, 2021 11:42:29 GMT -5
It is well understood at my school that HYP are the cheapest option for the middle class…if you can get in. This is a very difficult concept for many folks to grasp. I just ran the same numbers I discussed above for Dartmouth. It had the parents paying $20,870 now and the kid kicking in $2125 and presumed a $5500 student loan. The family's contribution would be about $28000+ so between HC and Harvard, a little closer to HC.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 16, 2021 11:45:06 GMT -5
It is well understood at my school that HYP are the cheapest option for the middle class…if you can get in. This is a very difficult concept for many folks to grasp. I just ran the same numbers I discussed above for Dartmouth. It had the parents paying $20,870 now and the kid kicking in $2125 and presumed a $5500 student loan. The family's contribution would be about $28000+ so between HC and Harvard, a little closer to HC. Dartmouth is not HYP (FWIW).
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Post by alum on Dec 16, 2021 11:45:47 GMT -5
I just ran the same numbers I discussed above for Dartmouth. It had the parents paying $20,870 now and the kid kicking in $2125 and presumed a $5500 student loan. The family's contribution would be about $28000+ so between HC and Harvard, a little closer to HC. Dartmouth is not HYP (FWIW). I understood. I was posting that to support your assertion.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 16, 2021 11:47:01 GMT -5
Dartmouth is not HYP (FWIW). I understood. I was posting that to support your assertion. Ahhh. Got it. I’ve seen situations up close where HYP is cheaper than instate SUNY costs for a middle class kid. Which baffles some folks. (What Yale does regarding work-study is similarly baffling for some folks).
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 16, 2021 12:16:07 GMT -5
It is well understood at my school that HYP are the cheapest option for the middle class…if you can get in. This is a very difficult concept for many folks to grasp. Yes, the concept of a Mercedes being cheaper than a Ford is counter intuitive. But if HC Admissions evaluated an applicant as a Mercedes, don't they offer Merit aid to compete with HYP, so that if an HC applicant is bright enough to be accepted at HYP, Holy Cross will loosen their death grip on the purse strings to go toe to toe with the Ivies to land that student and upgrade Holy Cross' standing, while still being frugal with aid for accepted students who can't get into HYP?
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Post by hcpride on Dec 16, 2021 12:36:23 GMT -5
It is well understood at my school that HYP are the cheapest option for the middle class…if you can get in. This is a very difficult concept for many folks to grasp. Yes, the concept of a Mercedes being cheaper than a Ford is counter intuitive. But if HC Admissions evaluated an applicant as a Mercedes, don't they offer Merit aid to compete with HYP, so that if an HC applicant is bright enough to be accepted at HYP, Holy Cross will loosen their death grip on the purse strings to go toe to toe with the Ivies to land that student and upgrade Holy Cross' standing, while still being frugal with aid for accepted students who can't get into HYP? As a threshold matter, the merit aid we dole out in small increments is not designed to attract an HYP-caliber kid. Think of it more as a BC-level kid. If all things are otherwise equal financially, etc. a kid may lean towards the school (HC) that is 10K less per year than BC.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 16, 2021 17:21:36 GMT -5
You are correct for a student looking to apply for financial aid. The caveat is a football player being recruited by the Harvard staff has a different formula or guide with financial aid and admissions. This is a quiet, non disclosed item per a member of their staff. This is the area in which the need-based version of the Patriot League was such a failure, at least at Holy Cross; was it not?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 19, 2021 8:51:49 GMT -5
Ten years ago, Bowdoin's endowment value was 30 percent higher than Holy Cross' endowment Bowdoin's endowment is now about 270 percent of Holy Cross' endowment.
By 2025, if Bowdoin's endowment value remained constant for fiscal 2021, 2022, 2023, i.e., no change in value from the value on June 30th 2021, the monies appropriated from the endowment in fiscal 2025 will be so large that most everyone could attend Bowdoin for free. If one subtracts interest expense and depreciation, the appropriation from the endowment would cover over 80 percent of the cost of operating Bowdoin in 2025. In 2021, Holy Cross' endowment paid for 18+ percent of the operating expenses of the college, and it would be a struggle to have the HC endowment pay for 30 percent of the college's expenses (less interest expense and depreciation) in 2025.
In fiscal 2021, net student tuition and fees (about $105 million) paid for about 5 percent of the total cost of operating Princeton. Princeton aims for a 5.5 percent distribution of endowment value annually. The endowment grew by $11 billion in 2021. If that $11 billion appreciation in endowment value in 2021 remains constant in 2022 and 2023, Princeton will have an additional $650 million to appropriate for the operations of the university in 2025. With $650 million more to spend, the cost of attendance at Princeton could be $0 for EVERYONE come 2025, and Princeton would still have $550 million to spend on other nice stuff.
I know one of the two authors of this letter writing campaign to get the Ivies to offer merit scholarships -- I worked with him -- and it strikes me this is simply a campaign to allow UPenn to catch up with HYP when it comes to financial aid for athletes.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 19, 2021 10:11:17 GMT -5
Ten years ago, Bowdoin's endowment value was 30 percent higher than Holy Cross' endowment Bowdoin's endowment is now about 270 percent of Holy Cross' endowment. By 2025, if Bowdoin's endowment value remained constant for fiscal 2021, 2022, 2023, i.e., no change in value from the value on June 30th 2021, the monies appropriated from the endowment in fiscal 2025 will be so large that most everyone could attend Bowdoin for free. If one subtracts interest expense and depreciation, the appropriation from the endowment would cover over 80 percent of the cost of operating Bowdoin in 2025. In 2021, Holy Cross' endowment paid for 18+ percent of the operating expenses of the college, and it would be a struggle to have the HC endowment pay for 30 percent of the college's expenses (less interest expense and depreciation) in 2025. In fiscal 2021, net student tuition and fees (about $105 million) paid for about 5 percent of the total cost of operating Princeton. Princeton aims for a 5.5 percent distribution of endowment value annually. The endowment grew by $11 billion in 2021. If that $11 billion appreciation in endowment value in 2021 remains constant in 2022 and 2023, Princeton will have an additional $650 million to appropriate for the operations of the university in 2025. With $650 million more to spend, the cost of attendance at Princeton could be $0 for EVERYONE come 2025, and Princeton would still have $550 million to spend on other nice stuff. I know one of the two authors of this letter writing campaign to get the Ivies to offer merit scholarships -- I worked with him -- and it strikes me this is simply a campaign to allow UPenn to catch up with HYP when it comes to financial aid for athletes. Shocking disparity in growth of the endowments.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 19, 2021 10:48:05 GMT -5
Ten years ago, Bowdoin's endowment value was 30 percent higher than Holy Cross' endowment Bowdoin's endowment is now about 270 percent of Holy Cross' endowment. By 2025, if Bowdoin's endowment value remained constant for fiscal 2021, 2022, 2023, i.e., no change in value from the value on June 30th 2021, the monies appropriated from the endowment in fiscal 2025 will be so large that most everyone could attend Bowdoin for free. If one subtracts interest expense and depreciation, the appropriation from the endowment would cover over 80 percent of the cost of operating Bowdoin in 2025. In 2021, Holy Cross' endowment paid for 18+ percent of the operating expenses of the college, and it would be a struggle to have the HC endowment pay for 30 percent of the college's expenses (less interest expense and depreciation) in 2025. In fiscal 2021, net student tuition and fees (about $105 million) paid for about 5 percent of the total cost of operating Princeton. Princeton aims for a 5.5 percent distribution of endowment value annually. The endowment grew by $11 billion in 2021. If that $11 billion appreciation in endowment value in 2021 remains constant in 2022 and 2023, Princeton will have an additional $650 million to appropriate for the operations of the university in 2025. With $650 million more to spend, the cost of attendance at Princeton could be $0 for EVERYONE come 2025, and Princeton would still have $550 million to spend on other nice stuff. I know one of the two authors of this letter writing campaign to get the Ivies to offer merit scholarships -- I worked with him -- and it strikes me this is simply a campaign to allow UPenn to catch up with HYP when it comes to financial aid for athletes. Shocking disparity in growth of the endowments. Nine-year growth rate of HC's endowment (2012-2020) averaged less than three percent, annually. Mired in mediocrity. Princeton and MIT's operating surplus (this is the equivalent of profit) in their fiscal year 2021 would pay for the entire cost of HC's athletic program 8-9x over, (including the scollies). Think about that! --And that's before their endowments gained $10-11 billion in value in fiscal 2021. Fingers crossed that HC (the BoT) has finally taken the needed steps to put HC's endowment on track to realize gains that correspond to the better performing colleges and universities.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 19, 2021 13:38:47 GMT -5
Shocking disparity in growth of the endowments. Nine-year growth rate of HC's endowment (2012-2020) averaged less than three percent, annually. Mired in mediocrity. Princeton and MIT's operating surplus (this is the equivalent of profit) in their fiscal year 2021 would pay for the entire cost of HC's athletic program 8-9x over, (including the scollies). Think about that! --And that's before their endowments gained $10-11 billion in value in fiscal 2021. Fingers crossed that HC (the BoT) has finally taken the needed steps to put HC's endowment on track to realize gains that correspond to the better performing colleges and universities. And crossing toes they haven't missed a generational surge in asset values and won't be punished for becoming more aggressive at the wrong time.😟
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Post by mm67 on Dec 19, 2021 15:29:06 GMT -5
Will the Ivies be forced to give athletic schoolies? NOPE! It's a matter of philosophy & integrity. No hired guns. And, fortunately these great, world class universities can easily afford to go their own way. They have absolutely no need for sports to attract students. They are a paradigm.
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