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Post by hchoops on Dec 14, 2021 9:17:15 GMT -5
From a letter to The Athletic
The Ivy League was given an antitrust exemption from congress in 1994 allowing them to collude to prohibit athletic scholarships of any kind. That exemption expires in September 2022. There is a growing interest from alumni and athletes that this exemption should not be extended so that athletes and students can sue the Ivies if they continue to violate the antitrust laws with its league wide prohibition. See the June US Supreme Court unanimous decision in Alston v NCAA. Jay Bilas has tweeted the time has come for the Ivy League to permit athletic financial aid and merit aid to all students. Mike Jensen of the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Yale school paper have written on this topic. Two lawyers , including me, in August wrote a letter and a legal memorandum to the eight Ivy presidents explaining the impact of the Alston decision on the Ivy collusion. The presidents failed to respond or explain whether they will seek a continuation of the exemption and if so why they should be treated differently from the other 350 D1 schools. The presidents want to sneak the exemption in again in a law senators do not even know they are agreeing to. We are contacting senators to educate them in what the Ivies are trying to do. The presidents want no publicity and refuse to openly discuss this issue with those most affected by their collusion, students, athletes, their families and alumni. What is your position on this and why has the Athletic not addressed this issue that has far reaching consequences not only in college basketball but in all athletics in the Ivy League , and smacks of Ivy president elitism, arrogance and maybe issues of stereotyping that speaks to the divisions in our nation today. What are the Ivy presidents afraid of? Their endowments in the multi billions dwarf the rest of the D 1s. Brown has the lowest at about 6 billion. Harvard is at about 53 billion. They can afford athletic scholarships and merit aid to athletes and students. Your opinion? Will the Athletic investigate and contact the presidents and smoke them out of their hiding in their prehistoric caves. Why do they have disdain for the major sports, basketball in particular
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2021 9:29:16 GMT -5
I did not know the Ivies had or needed an anti-trust exemption.
Did the Patriot League have an exemption when they didn't allow athletic scholarships? How about all of D-III? Eight D-I schools out of 350 isn't exactly Standard Oil
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2021 9:30:07 GMT -5
Congress has plenty of time for this as everything else in the country is going swimmingly.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 14, 2021 9:33:15 GMT -5
The antitrust exemption is not that the schools can't offer scholarships, but that two or more schools agree to do so and may share financial aid information in aggregate.
The government is not going to be forcing schools to offer aid.
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2021 9:48:24 GMT -5
The antitrust exemption is not that the schools can't offer scholarships, but that two or more schools agree to do so and may share financial aid information in aggregate. The government is not going to be forcing schools to offer aid. But back to my question: DIdn't two or more Patriot League schools agree to no scholarships for a few years in the 90's? Don't two or more D-III schools agree to not give scholarships today. There are more D-III schools and D-I schools. That collusion would have a bigger impact on the marketplace than eight Ivies. Not trying to be difficult, but I have to be missing something because this seems inconsistent to me
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Post by gks on Dec 14, 2021 9:59:01 GMT -5
Yawn.....tired of the Ivy League.
Next.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 14, 2021 10:14:25 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 14, 2021 10:16:50 GMT -5
If Harvard could earn 5% per year on its ludicrous endowment, that would equate to $118,000 per year for every student, undergrad and grad schools combined. Harvard does not need to charge tuition of any kind. Of course it can afford to give athletic scholarships as easily as Holy Cross can afford to have paper towels in the Hogan Center restrooms. Don't get me started on the Harvard endowment....
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 14, 2021 10:24:02 GMT -5
Too late, KY!!!! Would this make you a "self-starter?"
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Post by Tom on Dec 14, 2021 11:19:21 GMT -5
If Harvard could earn 5% per year on its ludicrous endowment, that would equate to $118,000 per year for every student, undergrad and grad schools combined. Harvard does not need to charge tuition of any kind. Of course it can afford to give athletic scholarships as easily as Holy Cross can afford to have paper towels in the Hogan Center restrooms. Don't get me started on the Harvard endowment.... I don't think this has anything to do with money. To me this is more about whether it's illegal for 8 schools out of 350 to form a league that doesn't give athletic scholarships. I would hope not. Especially since my alma mater did the exact same thing about 30 years ago
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Post by hc6774 on Dec 14, 2021 11:34:42 GMT -5
Is not the real concern of the Ives maintaining their tax-exempt status? Something they have in common with a lot of other schools.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2021 11:35:58 GMT -5
I never thought I'd hear the claim "No Collusion!" coming out of the ivory covered towers in Cambridge and New Haven🙂
Doesn't there have to be a victim class for this antitrust concept to make sense? How do the student athletes benefit if the IL drops to D-3 with M.I.T., John's Hopkins, U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Amherst, Williams, etc?
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Post by Ignutz on Dec 14, 2021 12:30:47 GMT -5
If Harvard could earn 5% per year on its ludicrous endowment, that would equate to $118,000 per year for every student, undergrad and grad schools combined. Harvard does not need to charge tuition of any kind. Of course it can afford to give athletic scholarships as easily as Holy Cross can afford to have paper towels in the Hogan Center restrooms. Don't get me started on the Harvard endowment.... And they can't get enough!! . A number of years ago, we had four alumni magazines coming into our home - Holy Cross, Harvard, Wellesley and Boston College. Which of the four included paid advertising? Anyone who is unable to logically deduce the correct answer should mail their HC diploma to One College Street, Worcester, MA 01610.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2021 15:00:21 GMT -5
If Harvard could earn 5% per year on its ludicrous endowment, that would equate to $118,000 per year for every student, undergrad and grad schools combined. Harvard does not need to charge tuition of any kind. Of course it can afford to give athletic scholarships as easily as Holy Cross can afford to have paper towels in the Hogan Center restrooms. Don't get me started on the Harvard endowment.... And they can't get enough!! . A number of years ago, we had four alumni magazines coming into our home - Holy Cross, Harvard, Wellesley and Boston College. Which of the four included paid advertising? Anyone who is unable to logically deduce the correct answer should mail their HC diploma to One College Street, Worcester, MA 01610. And Harvard Magazine is the only alumni magazine I ever knew to contain an expensive and thus lucrative personal ad section that stretched for pages and was naturally the first section many read because it was so entertaining. Often it would be a successful wealthy older woman looking for an even more successful, wealthier and older gentleman. Maybe all the IL alumni magazines have or had a personal ad section and other ads, IDK. But the Ivies will sell anything.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 14, 2021 16:37:02 GMT -5
Even their students and alumni???
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Post by Ignutz on Dec 14, 2021 16:47:35 GMT -5
Even their students and alumni??? And their mothers - if there's a return to be gained.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 14, 2021 16:51:47 GMT -5
I never thought I'd hear the claim "No Collusion!" coming out of the ivory covered towers in Cambridge and New Haven🙂 Doesn't there have to be a victim class for this antitrust concept to make sense? How do the student athletes benefit if the IL drops to D-3 with M.I.T., John's Hopkins, U of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Amherst, Williams, etc? The amount of travel Carnegie Mellon, Chicago, and Brandeis for example do in their conference is insane. They travel more than HC does for conference games athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/mbkb/2021-22/schedule
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 14, 2021 17:31:19 GMT -5
I saw in the game notes at the early season tourney that was at the Garden years ago that Harvard offered grant in aide to all students, based on their parents income...If I remember correctly, if the parents made a combine income of less than $100,000, their student got a full ride....Higher income less aid.....
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2021 17:36:45 GMT -5
I saw in the game notes at the early season tourney that was at the Garden years ago that Harvard offered grant in aide to all students, based on their parents income...If I remember correctly, if the parents made a combine income of less than $100,000, their student got a full ride....Higher income less aid..... So the only "victims" of Harvard offering no athletic scholarships is Little Lord Fauntroy, Richie Rich and Thurston Howell VI.
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Post by purple1 on Dec 14, 2021 20:09:05 GMT -5
$180,000 combined income is the new limit to receive a full ride. AND, they do not include asset value to housing, primary and any vacation homes in their financial aid review. I believe Harvard, Yale & Princeton offer this arrangement.
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Post by alum on Dec 16, 2021 9:46:38 GMT -5
$180,000 combined income is the new limit to receive a full ride. AND, they do not include asset value to housing, primary and any vacation homes in their financial aid review. I believe Harvard, Yale & Princeton offer this arrangement. That is what I had always heard, too, but it is not exactly correct based upon what I found on the Harvard site. It looks like below $65,000 you pay nothing and between $65,000 and $150,000 you pay up to 10% with the proviso that if you have significant assets (outside of housing) you have to pay more regardless of income. Fooling around with the Net Price Calculator, a family with income of $60000 would still pay full freight if assets are in excess of $1.6 million. college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheetI used the Net Price Calculator for a family with two kids whose first kid is starting college and second is in high school. Earnings from work were $150,000 with no investment income. Limited assets of $35,000 outside of retirement accounts. Assets in kids name of $500. It gave me a parental cost at Harvard of $12,750 with the kid expected to earn $3500 (summer and school year combined, I think) with no loan for a total family contribution of $16,300. The Harvard calculator does not ask about housing and other expenses. I assume if you actually applied they would look at any particular circumstances--extraordinary debt, care of relatives, expensive locale, etc and adjust the aid accordingly. I am not sure how they treat high school tuition for siblings. I then ran the same profile through the HC Net Price Calculator. It asks more questions and I had to guess on the income tax such a family might pay. I gave them a $300,000 house with $125,000 in equity. HC would require the parents to kick in $25,874, the kid to kick in $1800 and a loan of $6000. Holy Cross would require $12000+ more now plus a $6000 loan.
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Post by purple1 on Dec 16, 2021 10:48:53 GMT -5
You are correct for a student looking to apply for financial aid. The caveat is a football player being recruited by the Harvard staff has a different formula or guide with financial aid and admissions. This is a quiet, non disclosed item per a member of their staff.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 16, 2021 11:28:12 GMT -5
$180,000 combined income is the new limit to receive a full ride. AND, they do not include asset value to housing, primary and any vacation homes in their financial aid review. I believe Harvard, Yale & Princeton offer this arrangement. That is what I had always heard, too, but it is not exactly correct based upon what I found on the Harvard site. It looks like below $65,000 you pay nothing and between $65,000 and $150,000 you pay up to 10% with the proviso that if you have significant assets (outside of housing) you have to pay more regardless of income. Fooling around with the Net Price Calculator, a family with income of $60000 would still pay full freight if assets are in excess of $1.6 million. college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheetI used the Net Price Calculator for a family with two kids whose first kid is starting college and second is in high school. Earnings from work were $150,000 with no investment income. Limited assets of $35,000 outside of retirement accounts. Assets in kids name of $500. It gave me a parental cost at Harvard of $12,750 with the kid expected to earn $3500 (summer and school year combined, I think) with no loan for a total family contribution of $16,300. The Harvard calculator does not ask about housing and other expenses. I assume if you actually applied they would look at any particular circumstances--extraordinary debt, care of relatives, expensive locale, etc and adjust the aid accordingly. I am not sure how they treat high school tuition for siblings. I then ran the same profile through the HC Net Price Calculator. It asks more questions and I had to guess on the income tax such a family might pay. I gave them a $300,000 house with $125,000 in equity. HC would require the parents to kick in $25,874, the kid to kick in $1800 and a loan of $6000. Holy Cross would require $12000+ more now plus a $6000 loan.  Thanks for the detail work. This explains HC's challenging competitive position quite well.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 16, 2021 11:31:57 GMT -5
It is well understood at my school that HYP are the cheapest option for the middle class…if you can get in. This is a very difficult concept for many folks to grasp.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 16, 2021 11:32:31 GMT -5
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