rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Dec 22, 2021 0:50:02 GMT -5
Inexperienced teams can still be talented. After watching ten games this year, I’m not sure who’s talented besides Luc. Well you don’t know much about talent or basketball.
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Dec 22, 2021 0:54:28 GMT -5
There is little to no talent on this team. At least not enough to be competitive. Experience is a moot argument. No talent? Really? None whatsoever?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 22, 2021 7:26:03 GMT -5
Inexperienced teams can still be talented. After watching ten games this year, I’m not sure who’s talented besides Luc. Well you don’t know much about talent or basketball. You may be a little biased.
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Post by crosspride on Dec 22, 2021 7:49:20 GMT -5
Inexperienced teams can still be talented. After watching ten games this year, I’m not sure who’s talented besides Luc. Luc has shown he is talented. Unfair to try to assess talent levels after 10 games for the frosh class (and Louth). You’d have been excited the leading FG% shooter in Holy Cross HISTORY and 2X DPOY transferred after year 1. Not everyone will become Jehyve Floyd, but almost all will develop. Some dramatically. Literally thousands of examples throughout college basketball of this - do you typically watch much or just HC?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 22, 2021 8:40:05 GMT -5
Maybe we are talking about two different things then. You're talking about potential, I'm talking about talent today.
Besides Luc, the stock is low for every other player on this roster.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 22, 2021 8:51:58 GMT -5
We have plenty of talent. To me, the two issues are:
1) Mix of that talent. A lot of guys who are good at the same things and not as good at the same things. Not enough shooters and not enough bigs ready to contribute significantly to a D1 team right now.
2) An inexperienced head coach who hasn’t figured out how to best play with the talent we have. I am certain RW would win plenty of games with the same roster.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 22, 2021 8:53:03 GMT -5
The reality is Nelson (or some successor) better develop these guys (or change his style of play to fit what they can do) because transfer portal or no transfer portal; another group's not walking in that won't have the same issues. Not when you're near the bottom of the bottom.
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Post by trimster on Dec 22, 2021 9:08:37 GMT -5
Nelson’s future at HC is almost 100% tied to the development of the freshmen and sophomores as he only has 3 schollies to give to the class of ‘22 and ‘23.
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Post by gks on Dec 22, 2021 10:50:33 GMT -5
There is little to no talent on this team. At least not enough to be competitive. Experience is a moot argument. No talent? Really? None whatsoever? To consistently compete at Division 1....no they don't.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 22, 2021 11:06:09 GMT -5
There may be some individual talent but they sure can't play together well. So, individual talent - maybe - jury is still out for me but "team talent?" - absolutely not. While that falls to some degree on the players, it is mostly on the coaches and, more specifically, on the head coach. Has there been any evidence that with each passing game the team plays better? For sure, Kenney played better the last game but is that an aberration or the beginning of an upward trend? I'd like to see Lewis get some burn.
Let's see how bad the Patriot League is this season because we will need them "down" to get more wins than last season.
Guess we aren't playing Brown today. (Edit: Just checked the Brown website as they might be more forthcoming as to who might get the game with them. Answer: No one. Guess no one bit at their offer. Didn't realize that their canceled game was with state rival URI).
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 22, 2021 11:50:25 GMT -5
I get confused because I am unsure of the definition of talent. When I hear of talent, I think of "god given talent", as in running and jumping athletic ability, a body that works for basketball, etc. I guess you can improve on that, but feel it needs to be complimented with a separate component called skills.
For example, as a freshman Keith Simmons probably averaged around 7-8 points per game. As a senior it was probably in the 15-17 ppg range. Was he more talented as a senior than a freshman? Perhaps, but I think a bigger factor was that he improved his skill set with hard work, good coaching, and, don't hate.......experience from competition. That's why I have a hard time agreeing or disagreeing with the talent level - each evaluation is basically a snapshot in time. For those of you who feel the talent is not there, your evaluations may eventually prove to be spot on, and I'll tip my cap to you.
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Experience
Dec 22, 2021 12:01:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 22, 2021 12:01:13 GMT -5
His minutes going from 17.9 to 35.6 per game was the biggest reason for his points going from 8.5 to 16.9 per game.
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 22, 2021 14:19:41 GMT -5
One has to remember that all these players were the best players on their previous teams and could get away with making plays based on their speed and quickness at their previous level of play. Now they are not the best player on the floor, and that usually means they have to learn how to deal with that..That is where experience comes into play..They have to learn to play a different game both physically and mentality wise..Some can change easily, some take time, and some never do..One can coach it, one can practice it, but only the players can do it in a game situation.....
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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 22, 2021 14:24:50 GMT -5
Shooting the basketball into the hoop is basketball talent. Hard work can improve it, but you're not going to practice that skill into D1 NCAA ability if you don't have it. Forget size, forget freakish athleticism like speed, quickness, jumping, wingspan, reflexes... shooting the ball into the basket is a chief skill of the game. Who on our team does that well, consistently?
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Post by hchoops on Dec 22, 2021 15:04:30 GMT -5
If you are referring to outside shots, 2 and 3 point jumpers, I do not know our stats for that. If you mean FG %, Townsel, leads with .619, Martindale is next at .458. For 3s Luc leads at .438, Martindale next at .392
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Post by HC92 on Dec 22, 2021 15:22:24 GMT -5
Our current NCAA ranks for 2 pt % and opponents 2 pt % in D1 games:
336 - 41.9% 351 - 58.2%
Tough to win when the other team shoots 16.3 percentage points better than you over 10 games. This is an indictment of our team offense and defense. We’re neither getting enough easy shots or limiting other teams’ easy shots. Let’s pick one over the break and get a lot better at it.
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Experience
Dec 22, 2021 15:29:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rose22 on Dec 22, 2021 15:29:27 GMT -5
Well you don’t know much about talent or basketball. You may be a little biased. Not at all. Just wouldn’t say anything that flagrant…but to each it’s own.
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Experience
Dec 22, 2021 15:31:29 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by rose22 on Dec 22, 2021 15:31:29 GMT -5
No talent? Really? None whatsoever? To consistently compete at Division 1....no they don't. Gotchu…well I guess it’s good for these players that our thoughts don’t determine how their careers will play out.
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Post by crusader1970 on Dec 22, 2021 16:05:16 GMT -5
After watching every game this season, I am totally unsure of the talent levels of the individual players on the team.
Why? Because IMO they are so poorly coached that they have not been put in a position to display their skills. Basketball (unlike baseball) is such a team game that having an excellent coach is an absolutely critical component to team success.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 22, 2021 16:17:39 GMT -5
Another problem is the rebounding at the defensive end, where we are steadily regressing.
It was about the only thing the team did well in the BC game, getting a season-best 82% of the available boards there - and it averaged a solid 75%+ against AF and Q. In the next four games against peers, HC was under 70% three times. In the last three, under 56% twice. For the season, now 68% (318th), continuing a steady descent over three years. With a torrent of turnovers, that translates to extra scoring chances we are now handing over regularly.
For hoops and others . . . does it take as much time to "learn" how to rebound at the college level as it does to learn offensive/defensive schemes? Seems to me there are the same intangibles associated with it everywhere..
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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 22, 2021 16:29:01 GMT -5
To consistently compete at Division 1....no they don't. Gotchu…well I guess it’s good for these players that our thoughts don’t determine how their careers will play out. I would hope whether they were bottom-feeders at the D1 level, or were projected NBA lottery picks, the players at HC wouldn't heed what us morons think and say-- that they would go out and compete with max effort all of the time. With that said, we have ten years of multiple careers playing out here and largely being unsuccessful. See: league titles, NCAA appearances, W/L records, All-PL first team selections (which I posted in an earlier post). If the players and coaches want to change the narrative, they could, you know... win.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 22, 2021 19:01:49 GMT -5
Another problem is the rebounding at the defensive end, where we are steadily regressing. It was about the only thing the team did well in the BC game, getting a season-best 82% of the available boards there - and it averaged a solid 75%+ against AF and Q. In the next four games against peers, HC was under 70% three times. In the last three, under 56% twice. For the season, now 68% (318th), continuing a steady descent over three years. With a torrent of turnovers, that translates to extra scoring chances we are now handing over regularly. For hoops and others . . . does it take as much time to "learn" how to rebound at the college level as it does to learn offensive/defensive schemes? Seems to me there are the same intangibles associated with it everywhere.. i In my experience defense and rebounding, especially defensive, must be more emphasized verbally, but more time is needed on offense, both on skill work, dribbling, passing and shooting, and 5 on 5 work.
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