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Post by efg72 on Jan 22, 2022 22:47:16 GMT -5
Look I want the PL to be a terrific conference, but I want it to make all programs better. Until we have committed schools, boards, and investments the league is not seriously trying to get better
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 22, 2022 23:18:51 GMT -5
I agree with you we need more commitment to excellence in all endeavors at HC. The concept that excellence in one area can harm another must be banished. And it's not asking too much as HC is undergraduate only, liberal arts only and 3000 students only.
It's not like corralling the Pentagon like Pak has done.
Regarding the PL, HC can help push the league forward by building strong programs. Chesney is doing more to push PL football up than drag it down. The other schools are doing more to catch up out of necessity than if there was parity of mediocrity.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 23, 2022 4:19:17 GMT -5
So what was with the masks, which half the players had on and none had even covering their mouths? Some sort of statement by someone? Wonder the thought process that makes a kid loop one under his chin v toss it in the trash altogether. Maybe a statement regarding the irrational masking of healthy college kids in general?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 23, 2022 5:14:23 GMT -5
Maybe they just didn't want to have to write their names on them and leave them at the bench? (I'm not even sure if I'm being serious)
The difference in the game yesterday imho was that Bucknell's go to guy was fresher down the stretch than ours - Funk made a couple of really tough shots.
I can't let go of this communication thing; I'm starting to feel like as a fan I am little more than an inconvenience to the program. I may reach out to Kit pretty soon. And people used to make fun of the Milan Brown coaching staff for actually engaging with the fans......
Meanwhile, Austin Butler leads Charlotte to a win over Rice.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 23, 2022 5:54:01 GMT -5
/\ Yesterday I was flipping back and forth with Loyola’s game and Cam Spencer (Loyola) made a flurry of Austin Butler HC moves (rebounds and smart mid-range shots). Two differences were Cam’s quickness and surrounding cast.
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Post by dadominate on Jan 23, 2022 7:25:50 GMT -5
Maybe they just didn't want to have to write their names on them and leave them at the bench? (I'm not even sure if I'm being serious) The difference in the game yesterday imho was that Bucknell's go to guy was fresher down the stretch than ours - Funk made a couple of really tough shots. I can't let go of this communication thing; I'm starting to feel like as a fan I am little more than an inconvenience to the program. I may reach out to Kit pretty soon. And people used to make fun of the Milan Brown coaching staff for actually engaging with the fans...... Meanwhile, Austin Butler leads Charlotte to a win over Rice. agree across the board. btw, while we have talked recently about grandison's success at illinois, butler is also having a great season at charlotte. 12.5 pts and 6.5 boards per game. his rebounding continues to impress even at a higher level of play. consider the source of course (is bbc okay?), but remember the laughable claim that austin wasn't a good rebounder, it was merely a product of the princeton offense/there were no other rebounders or some other such nonsense? his positioning, anticipation, and general tenacity on the boards are exceptional for a player his height. don't know what he has in mind for a career, but i could see him being an outstanding coach if that was of interest to him.
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Post by sader81 on Jan 23, 2022 7:56:47 GMT -5
A very winnable game that slipped away. I think a coach deserves a good three years to produce, but it is getting hard to continue to support BN. He’s brought in decent athletes, but failed to put them in a position to win. Maybe if Gates wasn’t playing an ineffective man to man on defense, he wouldn’t have run out of gas at the end, There’s about forty days to right the ship and show some improvement, but I am less than optimistic.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 23, 2022 8:35:44 GMT -5
Just to be clear I started the comment about the PL as a way to have a conversation on a Saturday. The more I tried to make arguments against the PL organization it was easier to suggest the questionable commitment and investment issues by the various BOT and Presidents.
The more questions I asked, these suggestions became closer to facts, but I guess that is how conspiracy theories start. Anyway today when I look at the PL, I am less inclined to view the current version of the league as serving the future interests of Holy Cross athletics and perhaps those of the other schools. But then again it was built in the image and likeness of school Presidents and blessed by BOTs and without change it is Limbo for coaches, players, and fans.
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Post by hceconhist on Jan 23, 2022 9:04:43 GMT -5
Maybe they just didn't want to have to write their names on them and leave them at the bench? (I'm not even sure if I'm being serious) The difference in the game yesterday imho was that Bucknell's go to guy was fresher down the stretch than ours - Funk made a couple of really tough shots. I can't let go of this communication thing; I'm starting to feel like as a fan I am little more than an inconvenience to the program. I may reach out to Kit pretty soon. And people used to make fun of the Milan Brown coaching staff for actually engaging with the fans......Meanwhile, Austin Butler leads Charlotte to a win over Rice. Even during the worst of the Sean Kearney season, he ALWAYS took the time to talk to Bob at the end of games.
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Post by classof83 on Jan 23, 2022 10:21:52 GMT -5
So what was with the masks, which half the players had on and none had even covering their mouths? Some sort of statement by someone? Wonder the thought process that makes a kid loop one under his chin v toss it in the trash altogether. Maybe a statement regarding the irrational masking of healthy college kids in general? My guess and it is only a guess - the kids who had the masks under their chins are the kids who tested positive that precipitated the postponing of the prior games. There is probably some rule that requires them to "wear" a mask for some time period after the post symptom quarantine period is over.. The game was still during that period.
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Post by Tom on Jan 23, 2022 10:40:51 GMT -5
Some kids wore masks on the bench. Some did not. I didn't give it much thought or pay attention to who did and who did not. I assumed it was a personal choice. For those that made that choice, the chin jock is probably an easier (and possibly cleaner) option for mask storage while on the floor than other options
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Post by crusader1970 on Jan 23, 2022 10:42:36 GMT -5
A very winnable game that slipped away. I think a coach deserves a good three years to produce, but it is getting hard to continue to support BN. He’s brought in decent athletes, but failed to put them in a position to win. Maybe if Gates wasn’t playing an ineffective man to man on defense, he wouldn’t have run out of gas at the end, There’s about forty days to right the ship and show some improvement, but I am less than optimistic. Like so many others on this board, you want to be fair in your assessment of Coach Nelson.
I respect that.
But, like you, I see little hope on the horizon.
Early in the season, as I posted several times, I could see little improvement in the game to game performance of this team but was unsure where the blame belonged. Was it the coach or the quality of the players?
I have now concluded. It is clearly BOTH.
Assuming no players transfer and there is one incoming freshman guard, does anyone seriously think that another year of experience will result in more than a few more wins?
My feeling is that, if RJ comes back and is the RJ we saw last year, there are no transfers, and there are no significant injuries.....maybe this group can win 10 games. Maybe? Truthfully, as a bettor, I would take the "under".
That's simply not good enough. Not even close IMO.
I want to see us competing for PL Championships each year. Sound crazy? Heh, this is the Patriot League. It does not take a lot to get in the mix.....to have those "3 games in March" actually mean something.....something to get excited about.
This program IMO clearly needs to hit the reset button. The only question is when.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 23, 2022 10:43:33 GMT -5
I can't let go of this communication thing; I'm starting to feel like as a fan I am little more than an inconvenience to the program. 100% with you, Dave. This is something that has bothered me all season. I know it can't be easy for Nelson right now given these historically bad results, but give us something at least! At a minimum, there should be a two minute video following every game with Nelson's comments on it. Not like he needs to be sitting down in a press conference fashion with the Holy Cross step and repeat behind him; it's just Charlie Bare filming Nelson's reaction on his iPhone. The fact we only get these after wins is unfortunate. Yeah, there's not much good to report or say these days, but as a Division 1 program I expect more in the form of communication from the coach. And, I don't even think any fans are expecting much here. Milan Brown had his blog, fairly active on Twitter, gave regular press conferences following games, chatted with Bob F (RIP) or whomever was doing the radio / streaming call of the game post-game, etc....and we all know the results weren't great for Milan. Personally, I think Nelson is pretty uncomfortable in talking about the program in its current state, so it's easier to just hide.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 23, 2022 10:49:19 GMT -5
I also have a sense that the success of football, while great for all of us, is troubling for the institution. I've thought this, too. I think it makes TPTB a bit uncomfortable when HC football is winning league championships, winning a playoff game, receiving a bunch of accolades, etc. On the surface, one might think there's no way that could be true, but I genuinely think the leadership at HC wants nothing more for athletics to be fielding a ton of sports and merely being competitive in them -- win some games, be competitive, but don't get too good. Because, god forbid there are murmurings of "Holy Cross being that good football school."
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 23, 2022 10:51:09 GMT -5
Wonder the thought process that makes a kid loop one under his chin v toss it in the trash altogether. Maybe a statement regarding the irrational masking of healthy college kids in general? There is probably some rule that requires them to "wear" a mask for some time period after the post symptom quarantine period is over.. Well, as long as we all know that the entire thing is a sham, let's just move on and have a good laugh at it.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 23, 2022 11:14:46 GMT -5
There is NO WAY that TPTB including Vince, the BoT chair or others are the least concerned about the success of the football team or, heavens, that we’d be successful in basketball again.
There’s a school in South Bend, IN that has historically been good in football that hasn’t seen it’s academic reputation damaged. And there was a day when Holy Cross was “the winning Irish” in football, at the D-1AA level and our academic reputation was higher than it is now.
Stop manufacturing excuses for our athletic failures! And, no, it’s NOT the PL that’s the problem.
Let’s give Kit and Vince a chance.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 23, 2022 11:21:53 GMT -5
well put, sader1970!
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Post by efg72 on Jan 23, 2022 12:01:10 GMT -5
I think I put it differently and that is athletics are an offering, like any another academic offering. It satisfies a need for the institution to develop the mind, body and soul.
The PL, as an organization, is responsible for not building a brand that is value added for each of its members. Today it does little if anything to advance the athletic image and reputation for its members.
If they wanted it to be more successful the leadership would invest and certainly not allow what has happened in basketball since the Willard era.
There would be more energy to market the programs, encourage a relationship with the community, and try and build attendance and hold the AD accountable for delivering against a set of metrics.
Sader you are right this might be a new day and Vince and Kit have an opportunity to lead and change and we need to be patient and give them a chance to place their mark on the school and the future of Holy Cross athletics.
The past decades, however,might be seen as HC leadership and the PL being guilty of sins of omission as opposed to taking the better path forward.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 23, 2022 13:18:10 GMT -5
Wonder the thought process that makes a kid loop one under his chin v toss it in the trash altogether. Maybe a statement regarding the irrational masking of healthy college kids in general? My guess and it is only a guess - the kids who had the masks under their chins are the kids who tested positive that precipitated the postponing of the prior games. There is probably some rule that requires them to "wear" a mask for some time period after the post symptom quarantine period is over.. The game was still during that period. ...which of course inherently defeats the idea that the players' medical condition(s) cannot be divulged for confidentiality reasons. Hope your theory is not fact.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 24, 2022 9:04:47 GMT -5
My guess and it is only a guess - the kids who had the masks under their chins are the kids who tested positive that precipitated the postponing of the prior games. There is probably some rule that requires them to "wear" a mask for some time period after the post symptom quarantine period is over.. The game was still during that period. ...which of course inherently defeats the idea that the players' medical condition(s) cannot be divulged for confidentiality reasons. Hope your theory is not fact. Unless a kid chokes on a swallowed chin-mask or is inadvertently strangled, can’t see much harm in the decorative wear. This particular mask silliness doesn’t come close to qualifying for the long list of damaging and needless Covid reactions.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 24, 2022 9:48:05 GMT -5
I assume you are referring to ICU admissions and intubations and deaths as a result of not being vaccinated. Totally agree those are not silly at all and wearing chin-jocks is ludicrous. If you aren't going to wear them properly, just don't bother. I'm with you brother.
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Post by Tom on Jan 24, 2022 10:46:30 GMT -5
I assume you are referring to ICU admissions and intubations and deaths as a result of not being vaccinated. Totally agree those are not silly at all and wearing chin-jocks is ludicrous. If you aren't going to wear them properly, just don't bother. I'm with you brother. If you're going to wear one properly on the bench (by choice or mandate), is it better/easier to just throw it down on the bench with other masks and people moving up and down the bench rather than keep it with you. If someone chooses to wear a mask while on the bench, the chin strap actually seems like a logical place to store it while you're in the game. I don't think the uniforms have pockets
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2022 10:52:40 GMT -5
Then where do the players put their phones?
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Post by hcpride on Jan 24, 2022 11:03:18 GMT -5
I assume you are referring to ICU admissions and intubations and deaths as a result of not being vaccinated. Totally agree those are not silly at all and wearing chin-jocks is ludicrous. If you aren't going to wear them properly, just don't bother. I'm with you brother. If you're going to wear one properly on the bench (by choice or mandate), is it better/easier to just throw it down on the bench with other masks and people moving up and down the bench rather than keep it with you. If someone chooses to wear a mask while on the bench, the chin strap actually seems like a logical place to store it while you're in the game. I don't think the uniforms have pockets To the extent it matters (and since we’re talking college kids and Covid it really doesn’t) maybe tossing one on the bench would mean you might put someone else’s on when you return to the pines. Again, I’m not saying it matters but it might be a bit gross given how slippery those masks can get. Maybe they could build a pronged mask tree and label all the masks hung there. Win-Win. Masks dry out and you know which one to grab. (Of course the whole college b-ball maskerade is ludicrous but why go silly when you can go Uber-silly).
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Post by timholycross on Jan 24, 2022 12:01:14 GMT -5
I can't imagine that a college basketball team doesn't have boxes of those paper masks ready and waiting to be grabbed.
My complaint is that wearing them in that fashion is wearing a germ factory, and this would be true in 2019 as much as it is now.
Reminds me of when high school soccer in Mass. required mouthguards be worn and when the player was out of the play the mouthguard would be hanging out of the kid's mouth or be in his/her hand. Gross and someone finally saw the light on that one.
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