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Post by sader1970 on Jun 19, 2022 14:27:59 GMT -5
The Crusader mascot/logo is gone even from the "Purple Knight" pins.
Consulting with my young granddaughter who has vowed to never attend another Holy Cross athletic event until the mascot returns, I asked her if she would reconsider if the mascot was a Purple Knight. She said she would return to the fold.
So, my question to the assembly here, it would seem that the Crusades is what offends certain people - yet we keep the name on the teams (?!) - should Holy Cross seriously consider changing the name/mascot/logo to "Purple Knights?" We could literally bring back the same mascot and logos and would just lose the Crusades history. After all, no one seems to be upset with the Army West Point "Black Knights."
Would that complicate things for the 50+ year alums who are already "Purple Knights" since all alums and students would become "Purple Knights?"
Would anyone care?
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2022 14:35:06 GMT -5
Lure her back to the fold with an unlimited tab at the refreshment and swag stands and declare victory in the name change battle with Holy Cross continuing to be Crusaders.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 19, 2022 15:04:31 GMT -5
Won't work. My granddaughter, grandson and both sons (one HC alum, one Fairfield alum) and grandnephews and grandniece have more HC swag than most alums can even imagine. When my wife and I go to the bookstore, we get a greeting more enthusiastic than Norm entering Cheers. Slightly more seriously, in another thread there was some discussion about how Kit seems to be trying to increase interest in the younger generations and, frankly, a mascot, whether a Crusader, Purple Knight or something else goes over very well with young (pre-teen) kids.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Jun 19, 2022 15:26:47 GMT -5
Good idea, sader1970.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 19, 2022 15:53:07 GMT -5
The Crusader mascot/logo is gone even from the "Purple Knight" pins. Consulting with my young granddaughter who has vowed to never attend another Holy Cross athletic event until the mascot returns, I asked her if she would reconsider if the mascot was a Purple Knight. She said she would return to the fold. So, my question to the assembly here, it would seem that the Crusades is what offends certain people - yet we keep the name on the teams (?!) - should Holy Cross seriously consider changing the name/mascot/logo to "Purple Knights?" We could literally bring back the same mascot and logos and would just lose the Crusades history. After all, no one seems to be upset with the Army West Point "Black Knights." Would that complicate things for the 50+ year alums who are already "Purple Knights" since all alums and students would become "Purple Knights?" Would anyone care? This change wouldn't bother me, but I suspect I'm in the minority.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 19, 2022 17:45:28 GMT -5
That's because you haven't reached Purple Knight status yet!
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2022 18:19:01 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2022 18:41:45 GMT -5
Are TPTB going to ask me to return my Crusader Knight statue?
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 19, 2022 20:12:27 GMT -5
This suggestion is predicated on the fact that the Crusader Knight is not coming back. If there's a chance for it to return, I'd say your suggestion is the only chance of it happening and I'd support it, but I'd also guess the name woul dhave to change too. That said, if the objective is to get a cuddly creature as a mascot to engage Sader 1970's grand daughter... back when we eliminated the Crusader, I had a thought that I shared with a few on the board and it could work. It will not make everyone happy, but I'd bet it makes a lot of constituents satisfied. Keep in mind that there are lots of schools with mascots that do not match their nickname - Georgetown, Army, Navy, Western Kentucky, Tennessee, & Alabama to name a few. So with all those caveats, I'm ready for the pummeling ... What if we had a White Hart as our mascot? Why do i suggest this? - Holy Cross plays in the Hart Center. We might even call the mascot Francis to keep Fr. Hart's memory alive as we don't hear it enough since it became part of the Luth Athletic Complex
- Worcester is the Heart of the Commonwealth (I know it not the same kind of Hart)
- The white Hart is a mythical creature that represents purity, innocence, and peace in many cultures and Christ in many Catholic Christian traditions and so killing the White Hart (deer, antelope, etc) is forbidden in many of these cultures.
- In many of the legends of King Arthur, the white hart is elusive and hard to catch. It is the pursuit of the beast that represents humanity’s spiritual quest, always searching for something just out of reach. Its entrance or discovery is often the stimulus for his knights (our students & Alums?) to begin a high and noble quest.
- There is an interesting legend of Scottish King David who went hunting on the Feast of the Holy Rood against his priest's wishes, He was nearly killed by a whiet hart, but he pleaded with God for his life and just before the Hart struck him down, David grabbed the Hart's antlers which then transformed into a Cross. David then build a shrine to the Holy Rood, which later became Holy Rood Abbey. For those of you who do not know, Holy Rood means Holy Cross
- It has similar meaning in many other European, Native American, Asian Cultures and possibly African cultures but I can't find those references now and don't want to dig deeper right now.
The White Hart is close to a universal symbol. Here's one page that delves into some of the lore. There are others that delve into many other legends. ztevetevans.wordpress.com/2014/04/26/mythical-beasts-the-white-stag/Finally I know an argument against it is Fairfield's mascot, but just trying to think a little differently to connect something to the Crusaders/Knights and Catholic folk lore. Fire away.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 19, 2022 21:12:06 GMT -5
My suggestion is for an inanimate object the links Holy Cross to a bible verse and to a fellow Jesuit school, Georgetown, with a similar mascot that will not offend anyone. Instead of Hoya Saxa, which means What Rocks, my suggestion for the new mascot... .
”The Rocks” Copyright Pending. 😀
“Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means ‘rock’), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it.” A “Rock” will be non ethnic, non endangered species, non confrontational, non denominational. The costume will be easy to construct, and will be easy to obtain for a large Holy Cross “Rock” to be positioned in front of O’Kane, Luth and Fitton. Think of a Purple Mini version of Gibraltar on campus. It will be difficult to steal, unlike the Fenwick Bell, and if so, easy to replace. Besides, everyone knows “ That Holy Cross..............Rocks”.
Maybe some will like, others will not, but that is the essence of Crossports. biblehub.com/matthew/16-18.htm
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 20, 2022 5:41:56 GMT -5
Creative, Crucis!😊
I was thinking a version of 8485’s - “The Harts” after Fr. Hart and the Hart Center. Could have a costumed Jesuit. You know, that almost extinct breed atop Mt. St. James.
I was also thinking of “The Paks” after our indigenous hilltop but couldn’t figure on a granddaughter approved mascot.
I still believe if the Crusader has to go, the Purple Knights should be the successor.
Will keep cogitating on it. Not that TPTB care.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jun 20, 2022 7:19:54 GMT -5
Who is offended by the Crusader? Muslims or extreme politically correct college students and professors? Didn’t the Muslims defeat the crusaders? This is all a bunch of overly sensitive nonsense. The perpetually offended are running the show these days.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 20, 2022 7:42:59 GMT -5
Tell that to Fr. Boroughs who as best I can tell overstepped the guidance that the BoT gave him but then they didn't have the guts to rein him in.
At the time, it seemed the objections were coming less from Muslims and Jews but more from admitted atheists/agnostic faculty (of course, there were objections back in Fr. Brooks' presidency from Alan Dershowitz who got a scathing letter back from Fr. Brooks in which he essentially told Dershowitz he had "no standing" to put it in legal terms. Ask Fr. Markey who still has his copy of the letters).
While I would like to see the return of the Crusader, the chances of that in today's environment are slim to none. There's one thing to have an 80+ year tradition kept and another to return to a tradition that was ended.
The soon to be outgoing Chairman promised me the Crusader name would not go away "as long as I'm chairman." However, as we know, his term is soon to be over. We may see his successor throw that last vestige away.
Wonder what Vince thinks of the whole thing?
Anyway, that's why I'm looking for a successor mascot/logo.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2022 7:56:10 GMT -5
Who is offended by the Crusader? Muslims or extreme politically correct college students and professors? Didn’t the Muslims defeat the crusaders? This is all a bunch of overly sensitive nonsense. The perpetually offended are running the show these days. Definitely the extremists. I don't know of any Muslim protests over any of the many entities named "Crusaders" in America.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 20, 2022 8:03:33 GMT -5
"Extremely politically correct"? "perpetually offended"? I don't understand casting aspersions on those with whom one may disagree over the issue of the Crusader. sader1970 is a leading proponent of keeping the Crusader. He is a passionate defender of the Holy Cross Crusader mascot. Yet, I do not remember him insulting those on the other side. He sticks to the issues. Maybe we can all, myself included take a page from his book. As an aside I was comfortable with the compromise brokered by Fr. Boroughs. And, if the school returned the Crusader to its former place or if it abolished the mascot altogether I would still support HC. Certainly, my hope is that no matter the issue I will not cast personal insults at those who disagree with me. I will try to live up to the standards set by sader1970.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2022 8:15:20 GMT -5
"Extremely politically correct"? "perpetually offended"? I don't understand casting aspersions on those with whom one may disagree over the issue of the Crusader. sader1970 is a leading proponent of keeping the Crusader. He is a passionate defender of the Holy Cross Crusader mascot. Yet, I do not remember him insulting those on the other side. He sticks to the issues. Maybe we can all, myself included take a page from his book. As an aside I was comfortable with the compromise brokered by Fr. Boroughs. And, if the school returned the Crusader to its former place or if it abolished the mascot altogether I would still support HC. Certainly, My hope is that no matter the decision I do not cast personal insults at those who disagree with me. I will try to live up to the standards set by sader1970. That's a high bar.🙂 Extremists who try to destroy something on behalf of groups who aren't particularly offended should at least be open to scrutiny. OTH, people who are extremely neat and tidy or extremely generous or extremely athletic or smart deserve praise.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 20, 2022 8:30:48 GMT -5
long suffering Respectfully, I don't see what one gains by calling those with whom you disagree with "extremists." Given the climate today some might label us as extremists for our support of the Crusader mascot. Will that enlighten, move the debate? At loggerheads and that's all, no? Look I have fallen short on many occasions. I understand the temptation to go to war. I am merely trying to grow & share. PS Thanks for Not calling me a numbnuts fool.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 20, 2022 8:38:48 GMT -5
While not surprising, the intent of my starting this thread was not to re-debate the Crusader loss but rather assume that Iggy (always hated that name) and all his iterations is gone as a mascot/logo and what might be an appropriate and acceptable logo/mascot for the younger fans of Holy Cross athletics. So, while not surprising that the topic has strayed close to the topic but not right there.
How about creative ideas guys? After all, almost all of us are Holy Cross graduates. There may be some creativity still left among us.
Thanks!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 20, 2022 9:06:05 GMT -5
We should restore the Crusader to his former generations-long role as our mascot. Then we could start a PR campaign to emphasize that our Crusader is representative of the many good, honest, kind, reverent Crusaders not of those who abused their mission. Let the “woke” shriek in protest—that will just call attention to the brand and many observers will say “it’s great to see someone stand up to the obnoxious woke mob that tries to force its views upon the rest of us”. Brand awareness would increase and image would be enhanced. For every woke potential student who would pull his/her application in disgust, we’d get 5 new apps from students who would be newly aware of the HC brand or who would think more highly of HC:”that sounds like a place I should consider, a place where I’d fit in”. I think alumni donations would increase as another benefit of making the right move.
Bring back the Crusader in all his glory
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2022 9:35:57 GMT -5
long suffering Respectfully, I don't see what one gains by calling those with whom you disagree with "extremists." Given the climate today some might label us as extremists for our support of the Crusader mascot. Will that enlighten, move the debate? At loggerheads and that's all, no? Look I have fallen short on many occasions. I understand the temptation to go to war. I am merely trying to grow & share. PS Thanks for Not calling me a numbnuts fool. I see what you mean. One side started calling the other side "radical leftists" and the other responded with "ultra MAGA" and the adjectives signifying extremism don't accomplish anything constructive except to insult and polarize. Save "extremist" for when it is factually correct and not used as an insult. Leftist and Maga communicate someone's political position well enough without ultra and radical attached.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 20, 2022 9:45:46 GMT -5
My suggestion is for an inanimate object the links Holy Cross to a bible verse and to a fellow Jesuit school, Georgetown, with a similar mascot that will not offend anyone. Instead of Hoya Saxa, which means What Rocks, my suggestion for the new mascot... .
”The Rocks” Copyright Pending. 😀
You'd be following up on Purple Mountains' Majesty
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2022 9:59:41 GMT -5
We should restore the Crusader to his former generations-long role as our mascot. Then we could start a PR campaign to emphasize that our Crusader is representative of the many good, honest, kind, reverent Crusaders not of those who abused their mission. Let the “woke” shriek in protest—that will just call attention to the brand and many observers will say “it’s great to see someone stand up to the obnoxious woke mob that tries to force its views upon the rest of us”. Brand awareness would increase and image would be enhanced. For every woke potential student who would pull his/her application in disgust, we’d get 5 new apps from students who would be newly aware of the HC brand or who would think more highly of HC:”that sounds like a place I should consider, a place where I’d fit in”. I think alumni donations would increase as another benefit of making the right move. Bring back the Crusader in all his glory Just change the name from Iggy to Donny Do Good to indicate he is crusading for truth, justice and the American Way.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 20, 2022 11:17:36 GMT -5
Without rehashing the Crusader issue, I think the question for President Rougeau is how we best market ourselves to the world. We are still attracting an overwhelmingly Catholic population with a sprinkling of Protestants. Occasionally, we get someone from a different faith or no faith. Should we embrace trying to be a go-to school for Catholics? Should we try to become less Catholic in our student population? If we choose the latter, will we lose the best students who are Catholic and also not get the best students who are not given that our name is Holy Cross? Since we eliminated everything related to Crusaders but the name, have we become more attractive to Jews or Muslims or Atheists or Agnostics? My guess is the data would say no but these are the things we need to figure out. Not an easy task to figure out the right path forward.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 20, 2022 11:24:59 GMT -5
We should restore the Crusader to his former generations-long role as our mascot. Then we could start a PR campaign to emphasize that our Crusader is representative of the many good, honest, kind, reverent Crusaders not of those who abused their mission. Let the “woke” shriek in protest—that will just call attention to the brand and many observers will say “it’s great to see someone stand up to the obnoxious woke mob that tries to force its views upon the rest of us”. Brand awareness would increase and image would be enhanced. For every woke potential student who would pull his/her application in disgust, we’d get 5 new apps from students who would be newly aware of the HC brand or who would think more highly of HC:”that sounds like a place I should consider, a place where I’d fit in”. I think alumni donations would increase as another benefit of making the right move. Bring back the Crusader in all his glory Just change the name from Iggy to Donny Do Good to indicate he is crusading for truth, justice and the American Way. Make it Dudley Do Right and I'm right there with you.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2022 11:30:21 GMT -5
Without rehashing the Crusader issue, I think the question for President Rougeau is how we best market ourselves to the world. We are still attracting an overwhelmingly Catholic population with a sprinkling of Protestants. Occasionally, we get someone from a different faith or no faith. Should we embrace trying to be a go-to school for Catholics? Should we try to become less Catholic in our student population? If we choose the latter, will we lose the best students who are Catholic and also not get the best students who are not given that our name is Holy Cross? Since we eliminated everything related to Crusaders but the name, have we become more attractive to Jews or Muslims or Atheists or Agnostics? My guess is the data would say no but these are the things we need to figure out. Not an easy task to figure out the right path forward. Unless the school name since 1843 is changed, I think we have to embrace appeal to Catholics as at least a sub-theme. The trick is to turn off as few as possible while doing it. PVR seems a good choice for broad diverse outreach across interest groups.
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