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Post by hchoops on Nov 11, 2022 9:27:33 GMT -5
It is obvious that this will be by far our strongest opponent.
What adds to that is that our most consistent(only ?) offensive weapon is GG inside..
The added problem is that Creighton has a 7’ All America shot blocker in Kalkenbrunner
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Post by crusader1970 on Nov 11, 2022 10:15:21 GMT -5
It is obvious that this will be by far our strongest opponent. What adds to that is that our most consistent(only ?) offensive weapon is GG inside.. The added problem is that Creighton has a 7’ All America shot blocker in Kalkenbrunner This game is on the CBS Sports Network and I'm not sure I can bear to watch it.
Sagarin ranks North Dakota #341 and HC #329.
Creighton beat N Dakota last night by 35 points.
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Post by sader81 on Nov 11, 2022 11:02:38 GMT -5
HC should play more teams like Creighton and less like Dean. While I know some feel it’s counterproductive to get an ass whoopin, but our guys aren’t rookies anymore. Try to stay with them as long as you can and you’ll get used to playing at that level. It will pay dividends come league play, and the big check won’t hurt either!
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Post by Tom on Nov 11, 2022 11:15:57 GMT -5
Hoping that Octave is back.
I think outmanned teams have a tendency to foul more. Grabbing at a guy that is beating you. If Octave is not available and guys start getting into foul trouble, we might need more than a spot handful of minutes from guys outside our ironmen core
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Post by Ray on Nov 11, 2022 13:35:01 GMT -5
Hoping that Octave is back. I think outmanned teams have a tendency to foul more. Grabbing at a guy that is beating you. If Octave is not available and guys start getting into foul trouble, we might need more than a spot handful of minutes from guys outside our ironmen core Going with an "ironman core" approach in mid-November, against either Dean or Creighton, is asinine. The OOC should be spent with an expanded rotation, narrowing via injuries and development progress toward conference play. That this staff doesn't embrace this approach is frightening.
Milan Brown's approach was maddening in the opposite way. He'd expand the rotation later in the season, plucking guys deep from the bench who had seen no action or development time, presumably looking for a "spark" or something.
I'm so tired of watching clearly-overmatched coaches.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 11, 2022 13:38:25 GMT -5
Hoping that Octave is back. I think outmanned teams have a tendency to foul more. Grabbing at a guy that is beating you. If Octave is not available and guys start getting into foul trouble, we might need more than a spot handful of minutes from guys outside our ironmen core Going with an "ironman core" approach in mid-November, against either Dean or Creighton, is asinine. The OOC should be spent with an expanded rotation, narrowing via injuries and development progress toward conference play. That this staff doesn't embrace this approach is frightening. This isn't biddy basketball. That's what practices are for -- the place where players earn their minutes. |
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Post by Ray on Nov 11, 2022 14:11:41 GMT -5
Going with an "ironman core" approach in mid-November, against either Dean or Creighton, is asinine. The OOC should be spent with an expanded rotation, narrowing via injuries and development progress toward conference play. That this staff doesn't embrace this approach is frightening. This isn't biddy basketball. That's what practices are for -- the place where players earn their minutes.
Biddy? Ok, sport.
Do you really think those are the kind of practices being run by this coaching staff, super-competitive with players fighting each other to get into the rotation? I don't see it based on the product on the court.
Putting it another way: if only 6 guys on their roster have earned any minutes in practice, that's a huge indictment of the recruiting work done by this staff.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 11, 2022 14:54:53 GMT -5
This isn't biddy basketball. That's what practices are for -- the place where players earn their minutes.
Biddy? Ok, sport.
Do you really think those are the kind of practices being run by this coaching staff, super-competitive with players fighting each other to get into the rotation? I don't see it based on the product on the court.
Putting it another way: if only 6 guys on their roster have earned any minutes in practice, that's a huge indictment of the recruiting work done by this staff. An alternate, more reasonable explanation, is that it's a function of having huge roster turnover every year (some Nelson's fault, most not his fault), and the need to continually get a roster used to playing with one another. It's also a function of Nelson being under huge pressure to produce this year. Can you image the Haters if we lost an OOC game this year and after the game Nelson said something along the lines of, "I wasn't concerned with the score, and am glad we were able to spread the minutes around to 10 guys tonight?" Oh my!! |
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 11, 2022 17:13:57 GMT -5
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Post by Ray on Nov 11, 2022 21:57:07 GMT -5
Biddy? Ok, sport.
Do you really think those are the kind of practices being run by this coaching staff, super-competitive with players fighting each other to get into the rotation? I don't see it based on the product on the court.
Putting it another way: if only 6 guys on their roster have earned any minutes in practice, that's a huge indictment of the recruiting work done by this staff. An alternate, more reasonable explanation, is that it's a function of having huge roster turnover every year (some Nelson's fault, most not his fault), and the need to continually get a roster used to playing with one another. It's also a function of Nelson being under huge pressure to produce this year. Can you image the Haters if we lost an OOC game this year and after the game Nelson said something along the lines of, "I wasn't concerned with the score, and am glad we were able to spread the minutes around to 10 guys tonight?" Oh my!!
No, this is backwards. The revolving door on this program should be leading to more guys getting looks in game situations... it's not like Nelson's had all of these guys for four years and knows their capabilities inside and out. He might see something unexpected.
And if Nelson's already cracking under the pressure of needing to produce this season... well, then, the die is cast (even moreso than I think it is).
The most interesting part of this season is going to be the coaching search thread next March. Probably sooner.
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Post by HC92 on Nov 11, 2022 21:59:50 GMT -5
Biddy? Ok, sport.
Do you really think those are the kind of practices being run by this coaching staff, super-competitive with players fighting each other to get into the rotation? I don't see it based on the product on the court.
Putting it another way: if only 6 guys on their roster have earned any minutes in practice, that's a huge indictment of the recruiting work done by this staff. An alternate, more reasonable explanation, is that it's a function of having huge roster turnover every year (some Nelson's fault, most not his fault), and the need to continually get a roster used to playing with one another. Below is a list (maybe incomplete) of the 10 scholarship players who have left HC in the last three years after playing at least one season under Brett Nelson. Five are his recruits so hard to say those are anyone else’s fault. Verbeek Pridgen Sandy Niego Wade Reilly RJ Johnson Humphrey Luc Martindale |
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Post by hchoops on Nov 11, 2022 22:54:49 GMT -5
Did you forget Lowder and Hargis ?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 11, 2022 23:40:35 GMT -5
An alternate, more reasonable explanation, is that it's a function of having huge roster turnover every year (some Nelson's fault, most not his fault), and the need to continually get a roster used to playing with one another. Below is a list (maybe incomplete) of the 10 scholarship players who have left HC in the last three years after playing at least one season under Brett Nelson. Five are his recruits so hard to say those are anyone else’s fault. Verbeek Pridgen Sandy Niego Wade Reilly RJ Johnson Humphrey Luc Martindale Nelson inherited an abysmal program culture (do we need to rehash the number of miscreants thrown off the team/out of school under Asleep At The Wheel Carmody?), and needed to totally blow things up to have a chance at really advancing the program forward. Combine this with a campus on COVID lockdown + the shiny new transfer portal, and collateral damage was essentially unavoidable. |
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Post by HC92 on Nov 11, 2022 23:55:50 GMT -5
Below is a list (maybe incomplete) of the 10 scholarship players who have left HC in the last three years after playing at least one season under Brett Nelson. Five are his recruits so hard to say those are anyone else’s fault. Verbeek Pridgen Sandy Niego Wade Reilly RJ Johnson Humphrey Luc Martindale Nelson inherited an abysmal program culture (do we need to rehash the number of miscreants thrown off the team/out of school under Asleep At The Wheel Carmody?), and needed to totally blow things up to have a chance at really advancing the program forward. Combine this with a campus on COVID lockdown + the shiny new transfer portal, and collateral damage was essentially unavoidable. This is starting to sound like the “But Trump . . .” reposes to Biden’s record. Nothing that happened before explains why Nelson can’t keep his own recruits. That is quite clearly his fault. No one else’s. When you refuse to just admit such things, you lose all credibility in these discussions. You hate Carmody. He did a bad job. I get all that. But that doesn’t mean you have to make irrational claims like most of the transfers are not Nelson’s fault. The ones he recruited most certainly are. Has nothing to do with miscreants or anything else that happened before he got here. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 12, 2022 0:14:31 GMT -5
Nelson inherited an abysmal program culture (do we need to rehash the number of miscreants thrown off the team/out of school under Asleep At The Wheel Carmody?), and needed to totally blow things up to have a chance at really advancing the program forward. Combine this with a campus on COVID lockdown + the shiny new transfer portal, and collateral damage was essentially unavoidable. This is starting to sound like the “But Trump . . .” reposes to Biden’s record. Nothing that happened before explains why Nelson can’t keep his own recruits. That is quite clearly his fault. No one else’s. When you refuse to just admit such things, you lose all credibility in these discussions. You hate Carmody. He did a bad job. I get all that. But that doesn’t mean you have to make irrational claims like most of the transfers are not Nelson’s fault. The ones he recruited most certainly are. Has nothing to do with miscreants or anything else that happened before he got here. Ok, so Nelson recruits a group of Freshmen into: -a program where players were as likely to get thrown out of school as they were to get an HC diploma -a program with zero track record of leadership from upperclassmen -a program that hadn’t seen significant success in almost a decade -a campus that is in the midst of getting through COVID restrictions. And it’s expected that there are no issues with these kids that come -an NCAA culture with a new shiny object transfer prot that drastically increased player movement And it’s expected that there is no turnover? Ok! |
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Post by newfieguy74 on Nov 12, 2022 7:53:32 GMT -5
"This is starting to sound like the “But Trump . . .” reposes to Biden’s record."
Try to resist the urge to throw in a political cheap shot.
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Post by crosspride on Nov 12, 2022 8:29:43 GMT -5
Nelson inherited an abysmal program culture (do we need to rehash the number of miscreants thrown off the team/out of school under Asleep At The Wheel Carmody?), and needed to totally blow things up to have a chance at really advancing the program forward. Combine this with a campus on COVID lockdown + the shiny new transfer portal, and collateral damage was essentially unavoidable. This is starting to sound like the “But Trump . . .” reposes to Biden’s record. Nothing that happened before explains why Nelson can’t keep his own recruits. That is quite clearly his fault. No one else’s. When you refuse to just admit such things, you lose all credibility in these discussions. You hate Carmody. He did a bad job. I get all that. But that doesn’t mean you have to make irrational claims like most of the transfers are not Nelson’s fault. The ones he recruited most certainly are. Has nothing to do with miscreants or anything else that happened before he got here. I disagree strongly with a lot of this. Nelson gets a lot of blame but almost all of the impact transfers aren’t 100% on Nelson. I, personally, don’t hate Carmody. He did an average to poor job on the court but an ABYSMAL job off the court. If one kid got thrown off the team and/or out of school, fine. That’s one bad kid. There were multiple. Running a basketball program isn’t black and white. If there was a semblance of continuity and more than 1 decent upperclassmen, we’d have won more, then maybe we don’t see as many kids during the Nelson years looking for greener pastures. If just Luc stays (if my grandmother had wheels), him and Bachelder would be set up to be one of the best PL backcourts for the next 3 years. Instead we’re looking at 10 wins again and he’ll be fired, most likely. And as an aside, Grandison, Lowder, and Pridgen were never staying even for Carmody. Pridgen said as much in an article and all three have each transferred again after leaving HC. Never going to succeed with a roster of kids who don’t value Holy Cross. The next coach, likely next year, is inheriting a better situation than Nelson did on student/athlete behavior alone IMHO. |
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Post by Tom on Nov 12, 2022 8:56:52 GMT -5
Did you forget Lowder and Hargis ? 92's list was of players who played at least one season for Coach Nelson. Lowder and Hargis left the team at the semester break so had less than a full season |
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Post by HC92 on Nov 12, 2022 9:08:08 GMT -5
We’re coming up on the 5 year anniversary of Karl Charles and two others getting suspended from the program. I would be shocked if any person on the current team or any of the recent transfers has any clue who Karl Charles is. All they know is that we haven’t won at all for a long time and that we have one D1 OOC win under the current coach. We can’t keep kids because we are a rudderless ship with no clue how to win at HC. I get that the transfer portal makes it tough on everyone but that’s why we need a really good coach who can overcome that by connecting with his players, the HC community and the Worcester community. And by selling his vision for what HC can be. We went from a bad PL football team to a contender for the national championship in roughly the same time that Nelson has taken us from a PL doormat to a worse PL doormat. We have to stop making excuses for him. It just hasn’t worked in any way. It’s no longer because he inherited a tough situation. It’s because he isn’t very good at his job.
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Post by DiMarz on Nov 12, 2022 9:22:28 GMT -5
Players leaving a program are now the norm...I saw a post by Jared Curry who said if the transfer portal was around when he played a lot of players would have moved on.. The portal is now part of the college hoops way of life, we as fans, have to get use to it...And the coaching staff has to use it to make the team better..Today it is not about only recruiting high school/prep players, the transfers are a big part of building a team...
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Post by Tom on Nov 12, 2022 9:35:10 GMT -5
This is starting to sound like the “But Trump . . .” reposes to Biden’s record. Nothing that happened before explains why Nelson can’t keep his own recruits. That is quite clearly his fault. No one else’s. When you refuse to just admit such things, you lose all credibility in these discussions. You hate Carmody. He did a bad job. I get all that. But that doesn’t mean you have to make irrational claims like most of the transfers are not Nelson’s fault. The ones he recruited most certainly are. Has nothing to do with miscreants or anything else that happened before he got here. Ok, so Nelson recruits a group of Freshmen into: -a program where players were as likely to get thrown out of school as they were to get an HC diploma -a program with zero track record of leadership from upperclassmen -a program that hadn’t seen significant success in almost a decade -a campus that is in the midst of getting through COVID restrictions. And it’s expected that there are no issues with these kids that come -an NCAA culture with a new shiny object transfer prot that drastically increased player movement And it’s expected that there is no turnover? Ok! I disagree with your first point. I don't think Faw and Butler were passing along a toxic environment. The lack of upperclass leadership is a valid point. That comes a lot because all the upperclassmen left. That may or may not be on Coach Nelson. Third point is also very fair. Losing is no fun. There is a difference between expecting no turn over and expecting the very high rate we got For what it's worth, Coach Carmody brought in 14 freshmen. 5 graduated. 3 left on his watch. 6 were in good standing with the school when he left, but later left the school Coach Nelson has brought in 13 kids as freshmen. 5 have left the program. 7 are here in good standing on a graduation track (3 jr, 2 soph, 2 fr) and 1 not yet enrolled. Sadly in 2022, it's probably unreasonable to think all 8 will get a HC degree |
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Post by Tom on Nov 12, 2022 9:38:37 GMT -5
Players leaving a program are now the norm...I saw a post by Jared Curry who said if the transfer portal was around when he played a lot of players would have moved on.. The portal is now part of the college hoops way of life, we as fans, have to get use to it...And the coaching staff has to use it to make the team better..Today it is not about only recruiting high school/prep players, the transfers are a big part of building a team... But that also means continually "recruiting" your own kids I will say I am a big fan of both Gates and Dorsey. Too small a sample size to fairly comment on Octave, Tse, and Wilbar |
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Post by HC92 on Nov 12, 2022 10:20:36 GMT -5
Players leaving a program are now the norm...I saw a post by Jared Curry who said if the transfer portal was around when he played a lot of players would have moved on.. The portal is now part of the college hoops way of life, we as fans, have to get use to it...And the coaching staff has to use it to make the team better..Today it is not about only recruiting high school/prep players, the transfers are a big part of building a team... But that also means continually "recruiting" your own kids I will say I am a big fan of both Gates and Dorsey. Too small a sample size to fairly comment on Octave, Tse, and Wilbar We have definitely had some success with the transfers in. Gates is a force. Dorsey and Octave seem like two guys who should be above average PL players but maybe not All-PL guys. TBD on some of the others. And the transfers in will have a harder time transferring out. Every school is in the same boat at this point and you definitely have to figure out the best strategy for deploying scholarships. It may make sense to enter each year with 10-12 scholarship players and have 1-3 ready for transfers you see as potential starters here. When recruiting freshmen, you have to figure out if this is a guy who is all in and will stick with you even if he’s PL ROY or is this a guy hoping to use us as a stepping stone because he was under-recruited in high school? If the latter (the new one-and-done), is he so good that you’re willing to take the significant risk that he’s only here for a year or two? Can you build a strong enough connection with that kid once he gets here that he will stay even if he arrived thinking he would not? Are you willing to walk away from a really talented kid who isn’t a good fit with the culture you’re trying to build? RW seemed to be able to find a bunch of guys who didn’t jump off the page at you in high school but competitive guys who would do anything to win a basketball game. Then he leveraged his relationships to sprinkle in a couple of future stars each year and we were in business. He knew exactly what he wanted in recruits and had a plan to get there. And he occasionally got a little lucky as with Torey but he was smart enough to see something special in Torey during that one meeting and get him on board. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 12, 2022 10:30:25 GMT -5
We’re coming up on the 5 year anniversary of Karl Charles and two others getting suspended from the program. I would be shocked if any person on the current team or any of the recent transfers has any clue who Karl Charles is. All they know is that we haven’t won at all for a long time and that we have one D1 OOC win under the current coach. We can’t keep kids because we are a rudderless ship with no clue how to win at HC. I get that the transfer portal makes it tough on everyone but that’s why we need a really good coach who can overcome that by connecting with his players, the HC community and the Worcester community. And by selling his vision for what HC can be. We went from a bad PL football team to a contender for the national championship in roughly the same time that Nelson has taken us from a PL doormat to a worse PL doormat. We have to stop making excuses for him. It just hasn’t worked in any way. It’s no longer because he inherited a tough situation. It’s because he isn’t very good at his job. You are completely missing the point. End. Go Cross Go! |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 12, 2022 11:18:14 GMT -5
Well I guess that settle the matter
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