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Post by hcpride on Mar 8, 2023 13:42:40 GMT -5
No idea as to the merits of the case but here are two Ivy League athletes who want athletic scholarships in the Ivy League: Lawsuit challenges Ivy refusal to offer athletic scholarships
The Ivy League’s collective practice of not offering athletic scholarships violates antitrust law, a recent lawsuit filed against all eight Ivies contends.
The class-action suit was brought forth by Tamenang Choh and Grace Kirk — previous and current Brown University basketball players, respectively — on Tuesday. yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/03/08/lawsuit-challenges-ivy-refusal-to-offer-athletic-scholarships/ |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 8, 2023 17:38:57 GMT -5
www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35812605/athletes-sue-ivy-league-no-scholarship-policyBased on her profile, Grace Kirk likely receives need-based aid. So far this season, she has averaged 1.8 points per game, appearing in 11 games. Without reading the complaint itself, I think it will be a hard climb if what they are seeking is full merit scollies for everyone on a roster for a sport. The average need-based grant for a first year student at Brown in 2021-22 was over $57,000.
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Post by gks on Mar 8, 2023 18:06:48 GMT -5
www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35812605/athletes-sue-ivy-league-no-scholarship-policyBased on her profile, Grace Kirk likely receives need-based aid. So far this season, she has averaged 1.8 points per game, appearing in 11 games. Without reading the complaint itself, I think it will be a hard climb if what they are seeking is full merit scollies for everyone on a roster for a sport. The average need-based grant for a first year student at Brown in 2021-22 was over $57,000. It would also be against NCAA regulations and rules thus not allowed. This is why the Ivies give 'need based' aid to athletes....they can give unlimited equivalencies with no consequences. |
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Post by mm67 on Mar 8, 2023 18:13:17 GMT -5
Naivete on my part... I have always thought need-based scholarships was truly the most ethical & thus only way to go. Men & women for others and all that stuff... Oh, well.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2023 23:07:35 GMT -5
These student athletes accepted their disclosed financial aid package and accepted admission to an Ivy that may not have been offered to a non-athlete with otherwise identical credentials.
Now they are suing after Brown can't very well rescind their acceptances.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 9, 2023 6:41:28 GMT -5
One of the two folks bringing the suit, former men’s basketball standout Tamenang Choh, played last year at Brown as a 5th-year grad student. (Covid year exception).
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 9, 2023 8:08:07 GMT -5
One of the two folks bringing the suit, former men’s basketball standout Tamenang Choh, played last year at Brown as a 5th-year grad student. (Covid year exception). All I can do is shake my head. Very likely he received a grant-in-aid for his fifth year which covered most of his cost of attendance. He certainly wasn't doing a fifth year on his own dime. I don't think this case will get very far, as the remedy they apparently seek would be a full scollie for everyone who participates in a sport, at least where the sport has counters, like hoops and football. |
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Post by timholycross on Mar 9, 2023 9:28:16 GMT -5
Someone could file an antitrust suit against all of Division 3 if this suit was found in favor of the plaintiffs.
No one held a gun to their heads; if they thought need based was unfair, they could have taken their talents elsewhere.
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Post by alum on Mar 9, 2023 11:39:29 GMT -5
Someone could file an antitrust suit against all of Division 3 if this suit was found in favor of the plaintiffs. No one held a gun to their heads; if they thought need based was unfair, they could have taken their talents elsewhere. This was my first thought as well. The problem is that the NCAA and conference rules probably are in restraint of trade (if you assume that college financial aid and athletics are "trade.") The answer is Congressional action addressing the question directly. While they are at it, they could update our antitrust laws across the board to be more relevant in the modern economy. The problem with the "nobody held a gun to their head" argument is that actions in restraint of trade reduce the number of options in the marketplace and ultimately hurt the consumer. |
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 9, 2023 11:43:37 GMT -5
Someone could file an antitrust suit against all of Division 3 if this suit was found in favor of the plaintiffs. No one held a gun to their heads; if they thought need based was unfair, they could have taken their talents elsewhere. Realistically most members of both M&W squads might qualify for a full scholly but not at an Ivy equivalent like Stanford, Duke or Northwestern and they would have likely chosen the Ivy financial aid package over a full scholly at a lower academic and prestige school. The difference wouldn't have been enough to lower their career arc for the next 45 years after graduation and their personal and family pride of attending an Ivy League school. Exceptions would exist for sure, but that's my estimate for the majority. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 9, 2023 12:08:13 GMT -5
Someone could file an antitrust suit against all of Division 3 if this suit was found in favor of the plaintiffs. No one held a gun to their heads; if they thought need based was unfair, they could have taken their talents elsewhere. This was my first thought as well. The problem is that the NCAA and conference rules probably are in restraint of trade (if you assume that college financial aid and athletics are "trade.") The answer is Congressional action addressing the question directly. While they are at it, they could update our antitrust laws across the board to be more relevant in the modern economy. The problem with the "nobody held a gun to their head" argument is that actions in restraint of trade reduce the number of options in the marketplace and ultimately hurt the consumer. And if Congress rules this a restraint of trade by the Ivies that opens up a much bigger can of worms. Wouldn't that make all NCAA scholarship caps an illegal restraint of trade? Which would open the door to Nebraska offering 130 football scholarships and Kentucky 20 basketball scholarships. |
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Post by hcpride on Mar 9, 2023 12:18:26 GMT -5
Someone could file an antitrust suit against all of Division 3 if this suit was found in favor of the plaintiffs. No one held a gun to their heads; if they thought need based was unfair, they could have taken their talents elsewhere. Realistically most members of both M&W squads might qualify for a full scholly but not at an Ivy equivalent like Stanford, Duke or Northwestern and they would have likely chosen the Ivy financial aid package over a full scholly at a lower academic and prestige school. The difference wouldn't have been enough to lower their career arc for the next 45 years after graduation and their personal and family pride of attending an Ivy League school. Exceptions would exist for sure, but that's my estimate for the majority. Yes. I Googled Tamenang Choh and the one scholly offer I found was UNH. I can certainly see how a recuit might grab the Brown offer (one assumes a good deal of financial aid might have been involved) over UNH. We see this all the time in football when we recruit (and generally lose) v HYP. (Brown is perhaps another matter but that is neither here nor there.) As a non-lawyer with no expertise in the area the suit does seem far-fetched ... can't help thinking this guy knew his options and freely chose one he thought was better and had a very nice college career at Brown ...but, then again, that may have absolutely no bearing on whatever legal standard exists. It would make for a very interesting year for the Ivies if they lose this case and Harvard loses the race-based admissions case. |
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Post by alum on Mar 9, 2023 12:47:09 GMT -5
This was my first thought as well. The problem is that the NCAA and conference rules probably are in restraint of trade (if you assume that college financial aid and athletics are "trade.") The answer is Congressional action addressing the question directly. While they are at it, they could update our antitrust laws across the board to be more relevant in the modern economy. The problem with the "nobody held a gun to their head" argument is that actions in restraint of trade reduce the number of options in the marketplace and ultimately hurt the consumer. And if Congress rules this a restraint of trade by the Ivies that opens up a much bigger can of worms. Wouldn't that make all NCAA scholarship caps an illegal restraint of trade? Which would open the door to Nebraska offering 130 football scholarships and Kentucky 20 basketball scholarships. I think that by showing them the parade of horrors which could result from a free for all, they could be convinced to come up with a plan that provides clarity to the public and to the courts. What would seem difficult to do, however, is to carve out any ongoing exemptions for the Ivies. They should use their influence to help with a global treatment for this issue both as to athletes and as to financial aid generally. |
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 9, 2023 21:00:59 GMT -5
This was my first thought as well. The problem is that the NCAA and conference rules probably are in restraint of trade (if you assume that college financial aid and athletics are "trade.") The answer is Congressional action addressing the question directly. While they are at it, they could update our antitrust laws across the board to be more relevant in the modern economy. The problem with the "nobody held a gun to their head" argument is that actions in restraint of trade reduce the number of options in the marketplace and ultimately hurt the consumer. And if Congress rules this a restraint of trade by the Ivies that opens up a much bigger can of worms. Wouldn't that make all NCAA scholarship caps an illegal restraint of trade? Which would open the door to Nebraska offering 130 football scholarships and Kentucky 20 basketball scholarships. And Holy Cross only offering two lacrosse scholarship.... |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 9, 2023 21:40:35 GMT -5
Hop Riopel used to say baseball had 2 scholarships but they actually had 8 (2 per class for the 4 years).
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Post by timholycross on Mar 10, 2023 1:22:17 GMT -5
What was basketball in the Donahue era- 4 per class?
That meant 12 scholarship kids on the varsity, and a walk on or two (not every year).
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 10, 2023 7:42:07 GMT -5
What was basketball in the Donahue era- 4 per class? That meant 12 scholarship kids on the varsity, and a walk on or two (not every year). They had freshman teams, and I presume the freshman team rostered 10 players or so. |
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Post by timholycross on Mar 10, 2023 10:21:01 GMT -5
What was basketball in the Donahue era- 4 per class? That meant 12 scholarship kids on the varsity, and a walk on or two (not every year). They had freshman teams, and I presume the freshman team rostered 10 players or so. Yes, but unquestionably after the top few; the rest were walkons; most of whom one way or another (either didn't try out or tried out and got cut) didn't play after that initial year. Don't remember a scholarship player in my time at HC staying in school but not advancing to the varsity from the freshmen (a few stopped playing a year or two later due to various circumstances). |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 10, 2023 12:45:09 GMT -5
Don Johnson - big frosh from DeMatha in DC did not move up to varsity, IIRC. He did stay and graduate from HC
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Post by Tom on Mar 10, 2023 15:58:04 GMT -5
How many schools does it take to restrain trade? Eight colleges out of  in the country have banded together to not give out a particular type of merit aid, thus making their price higher to a small percentage of their consumers. This doesn't sound like Standard Oil restraining trade to increase profits. Don't you need a decent size market share to restrain trade? |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 11, 2023 8:37:32 GMT -5
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in the country have banded together to not give out a particular type of merit aid, thus making their price higher to a small percentage of their consumers. This doesn't sound like Standard Oil restraining trade to increase profits. Don't you need a decent size market share to restrain trade?