|
|
Post by inhocsigno on Mar 23, 2023 8:07:23 GMT -5
Saw HC sent out press that applications were up 23% and portion of admitted students to applicants down 15% from 2022. The "Flutie Effect" is real.
|
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 23, 2023 8:11:28 GMT -5
There may be other factors involved, but a winning football program is surely nice to have
|
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 23, 2023 8:32:04 GMT -5
Sluka effect.
|
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Mar 23, 2023 9:09:58 GMT -5
Hey, if our applications went up and acceptance rate went down (and if our competitor schools like PC, FU, BC stayed pretty flat) our recent FCS playoff success could be a part of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Mar 23, 2023 9:13:08 GMT -5
It most certainly could! But, there could also be other factors that TPTB are implementing without general knowledge. Imagine a school administration that judges itself on results rather than on the existence of plans!  |
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 23, 2023 11:44:46 GMT -5
It most certainly could! But, there could also be other factors that TPTB are implementing without general knowledge. Imagine a school administration that judges itself on results rather than on the existence of plans! New Sheriff in Town….   |
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 23, 2023 11:52:44 GMT -5
HC is & has been an academically elite Catholic/Jesuit college. Those of us in the "business" know that all the rest(excepting G-town & ND?) are pretenders to the Catholic college throne.
|
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Mar 23, 2023 11:55:55 GMT -5
A 21% acceptance rate definitely looks dramatically different to the kid and parents looking for a school than 38%.
|
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 23, 2023 12:34:31 GMT -5
It most certainly could! But, there could also be other factors that TPTB are implementing without general knowledge. Imagine a school administration that judges itself on results rather than on the existence of plans! I definitely think the supposed Flutie effect is overblown, especially when it comes to trying to tie admission results to FCS football. I hate to say it but outside of the Dakotas and Montana, FCS football doesn't really put you in the limelight anywhere. Fairleigh Dickinson basketball got way more attention than HC football for their one big win over Purdue on Friday (of course the plus side of that is that our coach is still here while theirs is already gone). I have friends who graduated Villanova, who when you bring up football, will just tell you "our football team sucks". Also when I was at a NJ truck stop on the way to Philly for our playoff game there in 2021, I saw a guy wearing a 'Nova shirt and cap. I asked him if he was on his way to the game tonight. His response: "You know the game's tomorrow, right?" He was talking about their basketball game against St. Joe's. Unless there were some prospective HS students in the stands at the Fordham game who made their decision between the 2 schools based on the overtime outcome, I don't think out football team's success was a huge admissions driver. Let's give the credit to the admissions dept. and academic side of the college for this one -- they've earned it just like the Holy Cross football team and staff deserves the accolades and awards they've received for what they've done on the field. On the flip side, for B and C level schools, I do think athletic success can and does lead to increased applications, even if it doesn't do much to move the needle on selectivity. I do recall reading that George Mason saw a lift in applications following its Final Four run in 2006. The same was true for Loyola a few years back. And I believe I read that applications spiked at Gonzaga if you compare before and after their first Cinderella run in '99 or '00. I never heard of kids from metro NY applying to UCF until their football program ballooned in notoriety. Anecdotally, I know athletics are obviously a selling point. There are absolutely students every year who choose Duke and Notre Dame over Ivy League schools due to the "coolness" of those big time sports programs, "K-ville", "Touchdown Jesus", etc. I think what people don't consider is that not everyone wants to go to a "jock school". Hence why schools like Macalester, Vassar, NYU, U. Chicago, Wesleyan, Tufts, Haverford, Oberlin and Swarthmore are so selective and bring in a specific type of student. And yes I know Swarthmore is now good at basketball but not drawing a Flutie effect conclusion on that one! |
|
|
|
Post by alum on Mar 23, 2023 12:43:17 GMT -5
I would be inclined to think that facilities and the new admissions head deserve a lot more credit than football, but it all helps. To be on the safe side, let's hope Sluka and Co. whomp BC in September so me can market off of that.
|
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 23, 2023 13:19:21 GMT -5
On the one hand one hears that college games do not attract large crowds of students. On the other it is affirmed that success in athletics hypes applications.
|
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Mar 23, 2023 13:39:41 GMT -5
It most certainly could! But, there could also be other factors that TPTB are implementing without general knowledge. Imagine a school administration that judges itself on results rather than on the existence of plans! I definitely think the supposed Flutie effect is overblown.. There are doubts out there as to the effect of Flutie in regards to BC’s sustained relative popularity…many factors went into the success of BC, BU, and Northeastern over the last 40 years or so. Let’s hope these recent stats are the start of a decades-long streak of improvements and popularity. |
|
|
|
Post by football44 on Mar 23, 2023 13:44:57 GMT -5
It most certainly could! But, there could also be other factors that TPTB are implementing without general knowledge. Imagine a school administration that judges itself on results rather than on the existence of plans! I definitely think the supposed Flutie effect is overblown, especially when it comes to trying to tie admission results to FCS football. I hate to say it but outside of the Dakotas and Montana, FCS football doesn't really put you in the limelight anywhere. Fairleigh Dickinson basketball got way more attention than HC football for their one big win over Purdue on Friday (of course the plus side of that is that our coach is still here while theirs is already gone). I have friends who graduated Villanova, who when you bring up football, will just tell you "our football team sucks". Also when I was at a NJ truck stop on the way to Philly for our playoff game there in 2021, I saw a guy wearing a 'Nova shirt and cap. I asked him if he was on his way to the game tonight. His response: "You know the game's tomorrow, right?" He was talking about their basketball game against St. Joe's. Unless there were some prospective HS students in the stands at the Fordham game who made their decision between the 2 schools based on the overtime outcome, I don't think out football team's success was a huge admissions driver. Let's give the credit to the admissions dept. and academic side of the college for this one -- they've earned it just like the Holy Cross football team and staff deserves the accolades and awards they've received for what they've done on the field. On the flip side, for B and C level schools, I do think athletic success can and does lead to increased applications, even if it doesn't do much to move the needle on selectivity. I do recall reading that George Mason saw a lift in applications following its Final Four run in 2006. The same was true for Loyola a few years back. And I believe I read that applications spiked at Gonzaga if you compare before and after their first Cinderella run in '99 or '00. I never heard of kids from metro NY applying to UCF until their football program ballooned in notoriety. Anecdotally, I know athletics are obviously a selling point. There are absolutely students every year who choose Duke and Notre Dame over Ivy League schools due to the "coolness" of those big time sports programs, "K-ville", "Touchdown Jesus", etc. I think what people don't consider is that not everyone wants to go to a "jock school". Hence why schools like Macalester, Vassar, NYU, U. Chicago, Wesleyan, Tufts, Haverford, Oberlin and Swarthmore are so selective and bring in a specific type of student. And yes I know Swarthmore is now good at basketball but not drawing a Flutie effect conclusion on that one! Okay thanks for your input. Farleigh Dickenson got more attention then HC football. Please stop yourself. Holy Cross is hardly a jock school. Stop with your snobbery!! |
|
|
|
Post by alum on Mar 23, 2023 14:16:06 GMT -5
I definitely think the supposed Flutie effect is overblown.. There are doubts out there as to the effect of Flutie in regards to BC’s sustained relative popularity…many factors went into the success of BC, BU, and Northeastern over the last 40 years or so. Let’s hope these recent stats are the start of a decades-long streak of improvements and popularity. BC denies that the Flutie effect was ever a thing. Its pushback is described in a Wikipedia entry. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flutie_effect#:~:text=The%20Flutie%20effect%20or%20Flutie,the%20college%20the%20following%20year. |
|
|
|
Post by Ray on Mar 23, 2023 14:33:14 GMT -5
Correlation <> Causation
|
|
|
|
Post by dharry13 on Mar 23, 2023 14:42:10 GMT -5
It most certainly could! But, there could also be other factors that TPTB are implementing without general knowledge. Imagine a school administration that judges itself on results rather than on the existence of plans! I definitely think the supposed Flutie effect is overblown, especially when it comes to trying to tie admission results to FCS football. I hate to say it but outside of the Dakotas and Montana, FCS football doesn't really put you in the limelight anywhere. Fairleigh Dickinson basketball got way more attention than HC football for their one big win over Purdue on Friday (of course the plus side of that is that our coach is still here while theirs is already gone). I have friends who graduated Villanova, who when you bring up football, will just tell you "our football team sucks". Also when I was at a NJ truck stop on the way to Philly for our playoff game there in 2021, I saw a guy wearing a 'Nova shirt and cap. I asked him if he was on his way to the game tonight. His response: "You know the game's tomorrow, right?" He was talking about their basketball game against St. Joe's. Unless there were some prospective HS students in the stands at the Fordham game who made their decision between the 2 schools based on the overtime outcome, I don't think out football team's success was a huge admissions driver. Let's give the credit to the admissions dept. and academic side of the college for this one -- they've earned it just like the Holy Cross football team and staff deserves the accolades and awards they've received for what they've done on the field. On the flip side, for B and C level schools, I do think athletic success can and does lead to increased applications, even if it doesn't do much to move the needle on selectivity. I do recall reading that George Mason saw a lift in applications following its Final Four run in 2006. The same was true for Loyola a few years back. And I believe I read that applications spiked at Gonzaga if you compare before and after their first Cinderella run in '99 or '00. I never heard of kids from metro NY applying to UCF until their football program ballooned in notoriety. Anecdotally, I know athletics are obviously a selling point. There are absolutely students every year who choose Duke and Notre Dame over Ivy League schools due to the "coolness" of those big time sports programs, "K-ville", "Touchdown Jesus", etc. I think what people don't consider is that not everyone wants to go to a "jock school". Hence why schools like Macalester, Vassar, NYU, U. Chicago, Wesleyan, Tufts, Haverford, Oberlin and Swarthmore are so selective and bring in a specific type of student. And yes I know Swarthmore is now good at basketball but not drawing a Flutie effect conclusion on that one! I respecfully disagree on the Flutie effect. I don't think it's overblown at all. I think the FCS success had something to do with the acceptance rate dropping. 38% was too high for our school. I also think and have heard the school has marketed to a wider net. I think it's a combination of many things - also including the insance facilities. All that said - I think we'd be naive to think the success of the football team, the most viewers for the South Dakota State game and a prolonged 4 year run doesn't help in this outcome. |
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 23, 2023 15:06:06 GMT -5
We should conduct research with our students to learn what specifically attracted them to HC. When I was a marketer, I always liked to say that "the biggest mistake a marketer can make is to market to himself". You have to find out what your target consumer is looking for, It would be very easy to poll freshmen about how various elements of the Holy Cross brand affected their decision to choose to come to HC. Such research, be it qualitative or quantitative, would give us great insights into how students are affected by athetics, the success of the football team,. the new performing arts center, the dorms, the food, the academic reputation of the college, the USN&WR rankings (I'd pay to learn that answer) , buildings and grounds, etc, etc, etc
|
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Mar 23, 2023 16:18:10 GMT -5
I definitely think the supposed Flutie effect is overblown, especially when it comes to trying to tie admission results to FCS football. I hate to say it but outside of the Dakotas and Montana, FCS football doesn't really put you in the limelight anywhere. Fairleigh Dickinson basketball got way more attention than HC football for their one big win over Purdue on Friday (of course the plus side of that is that our coach is still here while theirs is already gone). Okay thanks for your input. Farleigh Dickenson got more attention then HC football. Please stop yourself. Holy Cross is hardly a jock school. Stop with your snobbery!! I know FDU quite well and while they certainly got more attention than previously (which is virtually none) they did not get more attention than HC football. That is not "snobbery." It is just a fact. FDU is also not a "jock school" (You may need to update your sexist metaphores.) The biggest digfference right nowis gthat. the HC leasdership seems to be performing well above what can be seen at "Fairleigh Ridiculous" or "Harvard on the Hackensack."  |
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 23, 2023 16:49:04 GMT -5
As a Catholic Jesuit college will HC ever generate the same type of appeal as a Swarthmore, Amherst, Wesleyan, etc? In other words an appeal based high level academics & TBT social standing. HC simply does not have the history or the white Anglo-Saxon Protestant roots as do these fine schools. HC is trying to carve its own niche with its own appeal.
|
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 23, 2023 17:01:37 GMT -5
Okay thanks for your input. Farleigh Dickenson got more attention then HC football. Please stop yourself. Holy Cross is hardly a jock school. Stop with your snobbery!! I know FDU quite well and while they certainly got more attention than previously (which is virtually none) they did not get more attention than HC football. That is not "snobbery." It is just a fact. FDU is also not a "jock school" (You may need to update your sexist metaphores.) The biggest digfference right nowis gthat. the HC leasdership seems to be performing well above what can be seen at "Fairleigh Ridiculous" or "Harvard on the Hackensack." Hope you're right wrt to national visibility received by the football team compared to FDU hoops. Whatever the ratings were, it was an amazing ride for HC. The "jock school" reference wasn't intended to brand any particular school as such. More so to illustrate that there are indeed also applicants who are more attracted to schools where athletics are less emphasized within the university culture (Pratt, Sarah Lawrence are 2 more). More food for thought on the "Flutie effect". If indeed it is a real phenomenon (I think it is but to a more limited extent than others claim), wouldn't athletic downcycles result in worse admission stats? BC football and hoops are a mess right now. Is it easier to get in than it was 10-15 years ago? What about comparing admissions stats at Miami now compared to roughly 2000-2004? Also at Holy Cross specifically, wouldn't the dismal record of the basketball team the last 4 years somewhat negate the effect of football's success on admissions? Or is football the only sport that influences the admissions scorecard? Fun and interesting debate on this topic! |
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 23, 2023 17:54:03 GMT -5
Why not embrace "The Flutie Effect"? Take pride in it and the great Doug Flutie, too. Build a Flutie Hall. Construct a Flutie statue. Serve Flutie Burgers in the school cafeterias.
Own it. Glory in it. Don't allow an inferiority complex to block acceptance of the important role of Flutie in building modern day BC.
ND has the rep of the school that was built on the forward pass. They own it. And, it's a great university.
Why not BC & Flutie?
|
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 23, 2023 19:59:05 GMT -5
No Flutie effect at BC this year. The number of applications to BC fell from 40,500 last year to 36,500 this year. Acceptance rate is 15 percent. Fordham had 45,000 applications, (down about 2,000) accepted 22,500. Acceptance rate of 50 percent. Acceptance rate for class of 2026 was 53.5%; for class of 2025, 58.3 percent. The other half of the Turnpike Trophy had 80,000+ applications for the class of 2027. About the same number as for the class of 2026. Providence 12,400, Northeastern 96,000. Richmond 17,750, with an acceptance rate of 22 percent. HC appears to be atypical, in that applications increased. Many? of the schools that saw big increases for the class of 2026, are reporting either no increase, or a decrease for the class of 2027. Colgate reported that the number of applications for the class of 2027 was similar to the number for the class of 2026. IMO, 95 percent of HC's improving performance stems from the departure of Ann. HC is not yet appearing in the outside lists of applications, acceptances, etc., which may reflect both the medium for publicizing the data, and that HC is posting percentages, and provides no numerical baseline values. Pomona, which HC categorizes as one of 20 peer institutions, profiled their class of 2027. Pomona admitted 17 Questbridge students. www.pomona.edu/news/2023/03/17-introducing-pomona-college-class-2027 |
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 23, 2023 20:17:01 GMT -5
✅
|
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Mar 23, 2023 20:30:07 GMT -5
"95 percent of HC's improving performance stems from the departure of Ann."
Congruence is not necessarly the same as "cause and effect" They happened at similar times but one may not have been caused (or been caused by) the other.
|
|
|
|
Post by newfieguy74 on Mar 23, 2023 20:55:35 GMT -5
In my view the "Flutie effect" was time limited. Flutie brought enormous good attention to BC, and as a result high school kids around the country wanted to go there. As the applicant pool got larger BC became more selective and admitted better students. The academic improvement had its own momentum which no longer depended on Flutie or football. BC became prestigious academically and good students wanted to go there and still do. The endowment goes up, you hire better professors, you build new buildings. When my uncle (a quadruple eagle) went to BC anyone could get in, and when I applied it was my safe (very safe) school, but when my niece (a straight A student) applied it was very hard to get into (which she did). I imagine the new folks in HC's admissions office have brought its efforts into the 21st century, plus the success of the football team, plus the PPAC and the Luth and a beautiful campus all have something to do with it. More, please. Let's double the endowment and double the applications. I'll volunteer to help read applications.
|
|
