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Post by Tom on Jun 2, 2023 12:07:43 GMT -5
As I, like many here, am a pedant, I am much more concerned about the fact that so many articles about this group have conflated the terms "nun" and "sister." I am afraid that even the majority of Catholics use these two words interchangeably as if they meant the same thing, which they do not. Our ignorance of our own faith and its practices does tend to leave Catholics open for sich parodies. Probably more sloppiness/laziness in speech than ignorance. That being said, we referred to the religious teachers in my high school as "the brothers", and I don't think they were considered monks. The local all girl Catholic high school is run by an order called the Sisters of Notre Dame, although basically everyone knows they are nuns. I have never heard the teachers at that school referred to as the sisters
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 2, 2023 12:19:18 GMT -5
It may well be from laziness. However, Sister (also professor and doctor) Eileen McGrath corrected me on the matter. She said nuns are cloistered (in a convent) while sisters carry out charitable works out "in the world." Either can wear the typical "uniform" - the4 habit that both nuns and sisters used for many centuries.
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Post by Tom on Jun 2, 2023 12:41:43 GMT -5
It may well be from laziness. However, Sister (also professor and doctor) Eileen McGrath corrected me on the matter. She said nuns are cloistered (in a convent) while sisters carry out charitable works out "in the world." Either can wear the typical" uniform that both nuns and sisters used for many centuries. Now that you say it sounds familiar, but I never would have come up with that distinction on my own
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 2, 2023 13:46:03 GMT -5
I did not come up with it on my own...it was thanks to Sister Eileen.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 2, 2023 14:31:22 GMT -5
I did not come up with it on my own...it was thanks to Sister Eileen. I'm not sure, although I hate to quibble with Sister Eileen. I have a long time client who recently died. She was an amazing woman-- a gifted surgeon who became disabled by health problems, and a devout Catholic (but could swear like a longshoreman when circumstances called for it). She left some money to a few orders of nuns, and the one I just corresponded with is a contemplative order but they go by "Sister". I think maybe "nun" and "sister" are somewhat interchangeable.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2023 14:39:27 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Jun 2, 2023 15:09:10 GMT -5
I did not come up with it on my own...it was thanks to Sister Eileen. I'm not sure, although I hate to quibble with Sister Eileen. I have a long time client who recently died. She was an amazing woman-- a gifted surgeon who became disabled by health problems, and a devout Catholic (but could swear like a longshoreman when circumstances called for it). She left some money to a few orders of nuns, and the one I just corresponded with is a contemplative order but they go by "Sister". I think maybe "nun" and "sister" are somewhat interchangeable. As our colleague from the class of '70 points out below, "Sister" is a proper address for either ------------------------------------------ Just to complicate the difference, I saw a movie once about a nun (she was doing the monastery thing) and the contemplative monastery sent her out in the world to be a governess to some widower's kids
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 2, 2023 15:53:27 GMT -5
Also, there are other meanings for nun, for one example in the time of Shakespeare a "nunnery" was another name for a whorehouse. That clearly does not apply to any sister I ever met. I'll stick with Sister Eileen's explanation. Nuns are cloistered (or semi-cloistered) while sisters are not. If people use the two terms interchangeably, that is their error. The fact that some people do it does not make it correct.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 2, 2023 16:44:35 GMT -5
Are sisters who live in a convent and teach in the parish school nuns or sisters?
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2023 17:09:24 GMT -5
Both. Now. PLEASE stop debating this. This is like watching the traffic accident you pass on the highway. You know you don't want to look but can't help yourself.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 2, 2023 21:27:02 GMT -5
Why would Asexuals need to join any advocacy group? Nobody is threatening them. Why not just join the Shakers? As of 2022 only two Shakers remained in Sabathday Lake, Maine. Why do you care? I like to think about posts and comment. I don't need to care that much about the subject. In this case I thought Asexuals shouldn't have enemies due their abstinence/disinterest so why do they need a letter in LGBTQIA? Groups represented by other letters in this acronym have faced real enemies. Maybe being Asexual is more complicated than I understand and they do deserve to be under the same umbrella with these other groups.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 2, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5
Also, there are other meanings for nun, for one example in the time of Shakespeare a "nunnery" was another name for a whorehouse. That clearly does not apply to any sister I ever met. I'll stick with Sister Eileen's explanation. Nuns are cloistered (or semi-cloistered) while sisters are not. If people use the two terms interchangeably, that is their error. The fact that some people do it does not make it correct. The Sisters of St. Joseph at my high school were a little bit of both in the 1960s. The football team played down the street at a municipal stadium on either Friday nights or Sunday afternoons in deference to the public high schools that played on Saturdays. The Nuns/Sisters could attend the Sunday afternoon games but not the Friday night games. They had to be in the convent after dark - unless it was an event in the school building across the parking lot. One of the best weeks of my life was when Sister Lalamont disciplined me for some infraction and required me to report to her classroom for an hour after school every day for a week. I washed down the blackboards etc., and she talked. She really needed someone to talk to. Her twin brother was Monsignor Lally, the editor of the Pilot, the Boston Archdiocese newspaper and she was very proud of him. She told me about all his interactions with prominent people and his notable accomplishments. The late 1960s seem ancient now but they weren't the 1930s, 40s or 50s. It was easy to see that if she was the male sibling she could be out and about and she had some frustrations about that. She tried to be diplomatic but by the end of the week she was dissing the faculty member, who was a Holy Cross graduate and a great teacher imo, who held the positions of head football and baseball coach, Athletic Director and Department head of Social Studies as well as full time U.S. History teacher with a home room like the other teachers. She lowered her voice, leaned in and whispered "he's the highest paid teacher in the Diocese." It was a wow moment when I realized the nuns gossip and hold grudges like everybody else, but it was a wonderful week and it is one of the reasons I have felt that the Catholic Church should have gender neutral positions including, Priest, Bishop and Pope so that everyone's talents could be maximized.
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Post by Xmassader on Jun 3, 2023 21:10:49 GMT -5
The reference to the IHM Sisters of Monroe, Michigan brought back memories. I think the formal name of the order is/was Sisters, Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. As an altar boy in grade school (late ‘50s/early ‘60s), I was in the rotation to serve the 5:30 am daily Mass at the IHM Motherhouse. The Sisters (and there were many of them then..150+) would be singing like meadowlarks at that early hour when my fellow servers and I were barely awake. Had to learn the different rubrics for the Latin rite and Dominican rite Masses because one of the priests who said Masses for the Sisters was a Dominican. Also served the infirmary Mass for the elderly Sisters. I remember thinking at the time that the Sisters’ life led to longevity. Quite a few in their 90s. The IHMs were excellent teachers. I have been fortunate to be a student at four different excellent schools (including alma mater) at four different levels of education but I have often felt that the education at my grade school with the IHM Sisters is the education that I rely on the most on a daily basis.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 17, 2023 7:21:55 GMT -5
Nice turnout to honor this hate group —
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Post by Tom on Jun 17, 2023 8:26:17 GMT -5
I still think it would have been better if they did a ceremony honoring the 35th anniversary of the 1988 World Championship. Bring Kirk Gibson and Orel Hershiser out on the field. Just has more of a baseball feel to it
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Post by hcpride on Jun 17, 2023 8:27:59 GMT -5
I think the Dodgers wisely wrapped this up over an hour prior to the game and are swiftly moving on.
Of course there were apologists (this was, of course, honoring anti-Catholic hate so that sort always emerges) but regular folks were repulsed by the Dodgers in this particular outrage. Something tells me there was some wild scrambling by ownership to avoid their own Bud Light moment (or year).
Of course the Dodgers couldn’t apologize to Catholics (that sort of thing is streng verboten) so they sort of ‘disappeared’ the ceremony.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 18, 2023 19:10:57 GMT -5
I still think it would have been better if they did a ceremony honoring the 35th anniversary of the 1988 World Championship. Bring Kirk Gibson and Orel Hershiser out on the field. Just has more of a baseball feel to it You’ve come up with some crazy ideas over the years but this one really takes the cake. smh
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 18, 2023 20:40:36 GMT -5
I still think it would have been better if they did a ceremony honoring the 35th anniversary of the 1988 World Championship. Bring Kirk Gibson and Orel Hershiser out on the field. Just has more of a baseball feel to it You’ve come up with some crazy ideas over the years but this one really takes the cake. smh If they have a reenactment, Dennis Eckersly might be too old to whip his head around. He could pull something.
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Post by alum on Jun 18, 2023 21:05:33 GMT -5
Nice turnout to honor this hate group — 49,000 fans ignored the boycott. As pride noted, the ceremony was long before game time
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 18, 2023 22:23:18 GMT -5
In the 2008 Financial crisis, a few large banks were dubbed "Too big to fail." The Catholic Church is in that category at least for now. The hope I have is that the Church Fathers take criticism seriously and try to improve, be prompted to review or change policies that are anachronistic, etc.
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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2023 8:02:21 GMT -5
Nice turnout to honor this hate group — 49,000 fans ignored the boycott. As pride noted, the ceremony was long before game time Attendance is always paid attendance. Assuming someone was willing to eat the price of the ticket to stay away as a protest for honoring this group as heroes, they would still be counted in the paid attendance. From my point of view, when I think about going to a game, I look at the date and the opponent. I don't generally know about promotions. I assume this made more news in southern California than here, but only after the Dodgers started their flip-flopping. I'm sure plenty of people bought single game tickets before they knew anything about this controversy. And that doesn't include the season ticket base
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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2023 8:40:57 GMT -5
In the 2008 Financial crisis, a few large banks were dubbed "Too big to fail." The Catholic Church is in that category at least for now. The hope I have is that the Church Fathers take criticism seriously and try to improve, be prompted to review or change policies that are anachronistic, etc. It depends somewhat on what those criticisms are. Their are certain activities that the church considers morally wrong and I don't see them changing the definition of right and wrong because of criticism, There are places where the death penalty is legal and lots of people are in favor of it. The church fathers are never going to care about any criticism or public opinion on this topic. They will always say that taking a life, even if sanctioned by the state legal system, is wrong
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 19, 2023 8:50:47 GMT -5
Unles, of course, it is in a Crusade. Then taling a life can be an entry into Heaven. I remember the principle ofthe "double effect" from the Jesuits. Taklng a life to save a life (or many lives) can be acceptable.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2023 9:02:34 GMT -5
In the 2008 Financial crisis, a few large banks were dubbed "Too big to fail." The Catholic Church is in that category at least for now. The hope I have is that the Church Fathers take criticism seriously and try to improve, be prompted to review or change policies that are anachronistic, etc. It depends somewhat on what those criticisms are. Their are certain activities that the church considers morally wrong and I don't see them changing the definition of right and wrong because of criticism, There are places where the death penalty is legal and lots of people are in favor of it. The church fathers are never going to care about any criticism or public opinion on this topic. They will always say that taking a life, even if sanctioned by the state legal system, is wrong Are women Priests morally wrong? I agree with you on the death penalty.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 19, 2023 9:23:01 GMT -5
Actually, at one time the Church was not opposed to the death penalty IN ALL CASES. It was permissible in certain cases as a last resort in certain especially heinous cases , Hitler(?) Remember a discussion about the death penalty with a devout Catholic, truly a remarkable, beautiful person, in which she defended the Church's position allowing the death penalty in certain cases. Obviously this discussion was held in the context of the pro-life v. pro-choice debate. The Church has changed its positions on a number of activities over the years. I believe surgery and possibly anesthesia were considered an interference in the natural order. Truth is like a diamond with many facets which become evident over time. Basic dogma remains unchanged but understanding of truth evolves through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. After all it is a pilgrim church trying to find its way.
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