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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 12, 2023 10:25:52 GMT -5
We have heard differing opinions about HC Football at Polar Park, all along the spectrum from "it's a great annual event" to "we should never play there again". If you were the sole decision maker on this matter, how would you proceed?
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Post by hc87 on Jun 12, 2023 10:50:59 GMT -5
This is a very good poll, kudos KY. I swear we've done more research etc. here at Crossports than our athletic office has at times.
I'll be interested to see how this plays out here.
I flipped a coin on "annual/less attractive opponent" and "play a game there every 2-3 years."
I get the overall appeal but I hate the fact that it comes at the expense of playing a game, being on campus etc at Fitton.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 12, 2023 10:51:57 GMT -5
I think a game at Polar once every few years would be best.
The novelty is going to wear off (maybe it already has?).
Also, think about this -- there's a good chance people will get turned away from the game vs. Harvard at Polar this season. Our game at home against Harvard always draws pretty well, even when we weren't very good.
2021 attendance was 10,023.
2019 was 10,381.
2016 was 9,115.
A game in late September where we might be either 3-1 or 4-0 and a top 5ish team, against Harvard, who will likely be 2-0, would draw somewhere between 13,000 - 15,000. Last year, Yale drew 14,000 at Fitton.
A damn shame that a few thousand people might not end up watching this game in person due to capacity issues at Polar, while we have a great stadium and tailgating situation on-campus just a few miles down the road.
Only four games at Fitton this season just doesn't feel or sit right with me, too.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 12, 2023 11:00:18 GMT -5
If you're playing there annually, the game doesn't have to be at night; a 3 or 4 PM start is just fine.
That allows them to schedule someone later in the season; later means a league game; and Fordham in 2022 was the outlier; most league games can fit into Polar easily.
But playing the Crimson/Johnnies whichever-you-prefer there doesn't sit well with me.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 12, 2023 11:05:09 GMT -5
I’d say play annually, dont worry about the opponent just worry about the weekend. Do it during the Fall class break when students are home, on retreat, or participating in service trips.
We always draw a lighter crowd those 2 Saturdays, regardless of opponent, so hold itSaturday evening, get a lot more locals with a night game and Polar Park as an attraction.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 12, 2023 11:27:14 GMT -5
I’d say play annually, dont worry about the opponent just worry about the weekend. Do it during the Fall class break when students are home, on retreat, or participating in service trips. We always draw a lighter crowd those 2 Saturdays, regardless of opponent, so hold itSaturday evening, get a lot more locals with a night game and Polar Park as an attraction. Agree that this would be the right way to do it when scheduling permits. The home game over Columbus break has never drawn well. But what do you do this year? We are at Bucknell the weekend of fall break. Can’t play Merrimack at Polar because it conflicts with the baseball season. Not playing the homecoming game (Colgate) at Polar. Plus, this date likely conflicts with baseball, anyways. Could we have played Lafayette at Polar instead of Harvard? But, if you do that, then family weekend doesn’t have a game at Fitton and you’d go all of October and the first two weekends of November without a game at Fitton.
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 12, 2023 13:28:34 GMT -5
On Saturday Kit said this game is not going away - engagement with the greater community is a high priority That being said I think it's crazy to play a team like Harvard which would draw many more than the 9000 Polar handles - I hope they kick up the ticket price this year considering the opponent
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 12, 2023 13:49:19 GMT -5
On Saturday Kit said this game is not going away - engagement with the greater community is a high priorityThat being said I think it's crazy to play a team like Harvard which would draw many more than the 9000 Polar handles - I hope they kick up the ticket price this year considering the opponent I wonder if we are now selling more tickets (all games, not just Polar Park) to local Worcester folks, i.e. non-alums? Have any started (or returned to) buying season tickets, as in "I went to Polar Park for the game because it was an 'event', but, man. those Crusaders are a mighty fine team. I want to see more of them". I'd hope that our athletic department is tracking such things.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 12, 2023 13:49:52 GMT -5
I’d say play annually, dont worry about the opponent just worry about the weekend. Do it during the Fall class break when students are home, on retreat, or participating in service trips. We always draw a lighter crowd those 2 Saturdays, regardless of opponent, so hold itSaturday evening, get a lot more locals with a night game and Polar Park as an attraction. Agree that this would be the right way to do it when scheduling permits. The home game over Columbus break has never drawn well. But what do you do this year? We are at Bucknell the weekend of fall break. Can’t play Merrimack at Polar because it conflicts with the baseball season. Not playing the homecoming game (Colgate) at Polar. Plus, this date likely conflicts with baseball, anyways. Could we have played Lafayette at Polar instead of Harvard? But, if you do that, then family weekend doesn’t have a game at Fitton and you’d go all of October and the first two weekends of November without a game at Fitton. Can't do anything this year, but in future years, you ask. The League accommodates requests - if they didn't Lehigh va. Lafayette might occur on Columbus Day Weekend knowing how the PL Office sometimes operates! Request that the PL always schedule a PL Home game for us on the Saturday before or the Saturday after Columbus Day. Schedule Homecoming for a September Home game Schedule a PL game for one of the Columbus Day Saturdays as above Schedule Family Weekend for the 3rd or 4th Saturday in October. Could go as late as the first weekend in November.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 12, 2023 14:38:52 GMT -5
As was posted above, Polar Park is and will be an annual event on the Crusader home schedule. Multiple reasons for that:
1. Holy Cross is making it a priority to enhance town-gown relations and they see Polar Park/annual EBW game as a big part of it. [PPAC another aspect of that] 2. Polar Park is only available after a certain date every year due to, you know, baseball. 3. The WooSox, while maybe not in a position to demand the "biggest" game on the schedule are also not in such a poor leverage situation (see #1 above) that they are going to get the dregs and have 2,500-4,000 show up either. Holy Cross may be a non-profit, the WooSox aren't.
As an aside, the seating for football is, to put it charitably, "marginal." I think both Holy Cross and WooSox owe it to the regular Season Ticket "Members" (the preferred title from staff) to offer the better seats at better/reduced prices.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 12, 2023 14:59:23 GMT -5
Who gets the revenue from the annual EBW game? Does HC rent the ballpark from the Sox and keep the ticket revenue and its share of concession profits, or is there some sort of sharing agreement?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 12, 2023 15:06:56 GMT -5
As was posted above, Polar Park is and will be an annual event on the Crusader home schedule. Multiple reasons for that: 1. Holy Cross is making it a priority to enhance town-gown relations and they see Polar Park/ annual EBW game as a big part of it. [PPAC another aspect of that] 2. Polar Park is only available after a certain date every year due to, you know, baseball. 3. The WooSox, while maybe not in a position to demand the "biggest" game on the schedule are also not in such a poor leverage situation (see #1 above) that they are going to get the dregs and have 2,500-4,000 show up either. Holy Cross may be a non-profit, the WooSox aren't. As an aside, the seating for football is, to put it charitably, "marginal." I think both Holy Cross and WooSox owe it to the regular Season Ticket "Members" (the preferred title from staff) to offer the better seats at better/reduced prices. I'm seeing more and more reasons why this shouldn't be an annual game. Really only have two options a year based on schedules to play the Polar game (we lose a October home game), attendance is limited, sight lines / seating isn't optimal for watching football, and there isn't any tailgating.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 12, 2023 15:11:55 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you liked basketball games at the DCU instead of the Hart.
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Post by Tom on Jun 12, 2023 15:18:17 GMT -5
I went generous and said every 2 to 3 years. Kind of like night games at Fitton, the novelty will wear off and with it any benefit of community engagement
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Post by Tom on Jun 12, 2023 15:23:22 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you liked basketball games at the DCU instead of the Hart. I am fine with basketball games at the Centrum as long as there are significantly more fans in the stands than fit in Hart. If Duke wants a game in New England, I'd rather have vs Holy Cross at the Centrum than against a different opponent. That being said, if we're playing UMass in Worcester in front of 3000, the Centrum is a poor substitute
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jun 12, 2023 15:30:35 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you liked basketball games at the DCU instead of the Hart. If HC had a nationally ranked team, playing a nationally ranked opponent and sold out the DCU then yes. Otherwise no.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 12, 2023 15:36:12 GMT -5
An excellent couple of questions and the kind we will never know or, if we are ever told, would only be done so under the seal of confession, never to be repeated.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 12, 2023 15:36:51 GMT -5
On Saturday Kit said this game is not going away - engagement with the greater community is a high priorityThat being said I think it's crazy to play a team like Harvard which would draw many more than the 9000 Polar handles - I hope they kick up the ticket price this year considering the opponent I wonder if we are now selling more tickets (all games, not just Polar Park) to local Worcester folks, i.e. non-alums? Have any started (or returned to) buying season tickets, as in "I went to Polar Park for the game because it was an 'event', but, man. those Crusaders are a mighty fine team. I want to see more of them". I'd hope that our athletic department is tracking such things. They will begin selling HC FB tickets and swag outside Sunday Masses in the city beginning August 15th. And ending after the first Sunday when the bishop shuts it down.🙂 HC FB is a great ambassador to the community. It's nice to hear Kit's remarks about the game at Polar being an important part of that, which downplays the concept of the game being an obligation to the family of the extremely generous Mr. and Mrs. EBW. Holy Cross looks at this game as an opportunity not an obligation. Excellent.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 12, 2023 15:39:17 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you liked basketball games at the DCU instead of the Hart. I am fine with basketball games at the Centrum as long as there are significantly more fans in the stands than fit in Hart. If Duke wants a game in New England, I'd rather have vs Holy Cross at the Centrum than against a different opponent. That being said, if we're playing UMass in Worcester in front of 3000, the Centrum is a poor substitute Correct. We'd have beat Dayton in 2007 if the game was at the Hart. FWIW, I do understand that, in order to get certain teams to Worcester, we needed to play them at the DCU rather than the Hart.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 12, 2023 15:43:52 GMT -5
An excellent couple of questions and the kind we will never know or, if we are ever told, would only be done so under the seal of confession, never to be repeated. I understood years ago that the Celtics kept all their ticket revenue and paid no rent at the Bruins owned Boston Garden, with Bruins ownership who were in the concessions business, keeping the concessions revenue. What the arrangement is now, IDK.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 12, 2023 15:51:00 GMT -5
Raise your hand if you liked basketball games at the DCU instead of the Hart. Playing at the DCU is aspirational at this point. Nice to have the facility a mile away if Coach Paulsen develops the MBB program like Coach Chesney has done with FB. Men's hockey is another potential candidate for a turnaround under Coach Riga. Nice to have the DCU nearby if they ever need it, too.
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Post by bigfan on Jun 12, 2023 18:58:47 GMT -5
When students are on campus the parking for us fans for a basketball game stinks. Hopefully the team improves and we can schedule some games at the DCU Center. We had good crowds at the DCU when we played Notre Dame, Marquette, Boston College and Maryland.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 12, 2023 21:03:27 GMT -5
BigFan, 2 points - All of those games were about 40 years ago.
- Define good. Here's the facts
Date | Score | Attendance | 1/26/1983 | Maryland 55 HC 53 | 6,463 | 2/12/1983 | Boston College 89 HC 74 | 9,100 | 1/6/1984 | Notre Dame 73 HC 61 | 10,234 | 12/20/1984 | Marquette 74 HC 67 (OT) | 1,800 |
I'll give you good crowd for BC & Notre Dame. Maryland a good crowd by today's standards but in a 12,000 seat arena in 1983, 50% capacity, not so much. And Marquette? That's not a good crowd anywhere. Let's let go of 1980 (and 1960, and 1950) and win some games now, generate some fans of Holy Cross basketball and start selling out the Hart Center. Then worry about getting Holy Cross fans into the DCU Center where the team we're playing is not so important.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 13, 2023 4:59:26 GMT -5
“Play annually, but only against less attractive teams that would not draw well at Fitton”
I guess this would apply to Lehigh, Laffy, Bucknell, and Georgetown.
The nightmare scenario is a half-empty Polar Park for the EBW Classic. That’s got to be a consideration at some point.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 13, 2023 21:01:45 GMT -5
This is a very good poll, kudos KY. I swear we've done more research etc. here at Crossports than our athletic office has at times. I'll be interested to see how this plays out here. I flipped a coin on "annual/less attractive opponent" and "play a game there every 2-3 years." I get the overall appeal but I hate the fact that it comes at the expense of playing a game, being on campus etc at Fitton. Same coin flip for me. Don’t hate playing at Polar. Don’t love it.
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