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Post by hcpride on Jun 25, 2023 10:27:16 GMT -5
OK, this is not about Holy Cross and is only vaguely tangential to our discussion regarding the increased number of students at HC graduating with 'honors' and whether that is due to kids being smarter and harder working or grade inflation or some combination therein. A local Long Island public school this year named 15 valedictorians. Turns out they use unweighted grades to calculate (unweighted) GPAs for the purpose of determining valedictorian and 15 (!) kids had a perfect (4.0) unweighted average. For what it is worth, this public high school had 11 national merit semifinalists and 39 national merit commended students in its 315-member senior class. And a boatload will attend Ivies, MIT, Johns Hopkins, etc. So it is a VERY bright crew. How many will speak at graduation.? 15 (of course). 90 secs each. Thankfully (if you are attending the ceremony), they did not name a salutatorian. Newsday stumbles upon a very good question (and one that arose during our discussion of Holy Cross graduation honors): Does the growing number render the distinction, well, less distinctive? Probably a paywall but it's a lengthy discussion of weighted v unweighted, etc.: www.newsday.com/long-island/education/graduations/jericho-high-school-valedictorians-ex285xua |
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 25, 2023 11:44:21 GMT -5
OK, this is not about Holy Cross and is only vaguely tangential to our discussion regarding the increased number of students at HC graduating with 'honors' and whether that is due to kids being smarter and harder working or grade inflation or some combination therein. A local Long Island public school this year named 15 valedictorians. Turns out they use unweighted grades to calculate (unweighted) GPAs for the purpose of determining valedictorian and 15 (!) kids had a perfect (4.0) unweighted average. For what it is worth, this public high school had 11 national merit semifinalists and 39 national merit commended students in its 315-member senior class. And a boatload will attend Ivies, MIT, Johns Hopkins, etc. So it is a VERY bright crew. How many will speak at graduation.? 15 (of course). 90 secs each. Thankfully (if you are attending the ceremony), they did not name a salutatorian. Newsday stumbles upon a very good question (and one that arose during our discussion of Holy Cross graduation honors): Does the growing number render the distinction, well, less distinctive? Probably a paywall but it's a lengthy discussion of weighted v unweighted, etc.: www.newsday.com/long-island/education/graduations/jericho-high-school-valedictorians-ex285xuaThey all followed the rules and should be honored....I don't see the problem here. |
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 25, 2023 13:33:18 GMT -5
Well, cripes, it isn't like Chaminade or St. Anthony's! It's Jericho . . . . . Jericho?!! (I kid, I kid) How many are going to Holy Cross? I'd bet zero. Merriam-Webster defines valedictorian as: Note, singular. Needs a tie-breaker even if it's a coin toss, IMHO. Of course, I was never in contention in high school or college, so what do I know?  |
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Post by hchoops on Jun 25, 2023 13:58:52 GMT -5
If Jericho has unweighted averages, plus very high achieving students, a multiple tie at 4.0 is inevitable.
What is not inevitable is a 15 way tie.
I am also against weighted averages, so I really do not see this as a major problem.
If the speakers stick to the 90 seconds, it should not make the ceremony go too long.
Jericho is one of the best public schools in the state and possibly the country.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 25, 2023 15:59:30 GMT -5
There is no question the kids at that non-selective public school are very very bright (beyond the 50 NMSF/NMCS there were 5 Regeneron semifinalists in the senior class - two of them made finalist.)
At the same time there might be a valedictorian number that is ridiculous … and I was thinking 15 was getting pretty close to that number.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 25, 2023 16:37:19 GMT -5
Maybe for the future, those tied could vote for 2 to speak.
They would all keep the title valedictorian.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 25, 2023 17:09:14 GMT -5
One of the worst cases of ranking I have ever seen came from weighted rank. One of my runners had straight As and took every accellerated and honors course available. Before his frosh year, at another district, he took two courses (Japanese and World Religions) for personal interest. For that reason his rank was #14. Learning more than any other student had dropped him 14 places. He had to "settle" for a full academic scholarship to Harvard. The guidance department also broke gpa ties at the fifth decimal place. I asked why and they said because that was as far as their program would take the gpa. It was insane.
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Post by alum on Jun 25, 2023 18:39:07 GMT -5
Go to the college version. Top “x” number of students qualify to write an essay. Outside person grades. Top 2 speak. Problem solved.
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Post by Tom on Jun 26, 2023 8:23:30 GMT -5
Go to the college version. Top “x” number of students qualify to write an essay. Outside person grades. Top 2 speak. Problem solved. I have seen that at high schools |
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Post by hchoops on Jun 26, 2023 8:26:51 GMT -5
Ok, but have the authors deliver what they write before a choice is made.
The goal is the best speech, not writing.
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Post by alum on Jun 26, 2023 9:55:43 GMT -5
Ok, but have the authors deliver what they write before a choice is made. The goal is the best speech, not writing. I thought about that and I would be sure to tell the kids that the best speech is being chosen, not the best essay. I wanted the blind selection process by an outsider because some teachers and adminstrators just cannot get over how they feel about some kids (both positively and negatively) As I believe implicit biases are real, I also wouldn't want to reward or punish a speaker because of an accent, a stutter, etc., a nonbinary identity, etc. Maybe the kid could be selected far enough in advance that he or she could work with someone on delivery. The students competing are second semester seniors who have already finished the AP exams. They have time on their hands to do this right. For once, someone will win, many will lose, and as always, a lot of parents can lose their minds. |
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