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Post by longsuffering on Jul 4, 2023 22:41:49 GMT -5
This is to accompany the discussion of HC possibly moving to FBS and represents what I think is realistically the highest potential achievements in either subdivision in the foreseeable future.
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Post by deep Purple on Jul 4, 2023 22:54:05 GMT -5
That's a tough call.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 4, 2023 23:00:07 GMT -5
Of course, the chances of HC moving to FBS are maybe 1,000 to 1 against
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 5, 2023 5:39:01 GMT -5
Of course, the chances of HC moving to FBS are maybe 1,000 to 1 against Since the odds are somewhat better that CBC may move up to FBS what are the odds that this happens before his current contract expires after the '25 season? |
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Post by thecrossisback on Jul 5, 2023 5:46:08 GMT -5
I am more proud of the national championship. But I voted for the Bowl game because very good football coaches rarely stay at FCS schools for a long time. If you told Chesney the team was moving up I wonder how he would feel about that.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 5, 2023 5:57:28 GMT -5
Of course, the chances of HC moving to FBS are maybe 1,000 to 1 against Since the odds are somewhat better that CBC may move up to FBS what are the odds that this happens before his current contract expires after the '25 season? The upcoming year ('23) and the year after ('24) would seem to be locks for Chesney's continued presence on Mount Saint James. Definite (Covid) 5th years and possibly Sluka for both those years so we've got a realistic shot at a National Championship. I think his restructured contract runs thru Jan. 31, 2028. (Of course if we run the table (minus BC) regular season and win in Frisco this year IMHO the FBS head coach offers will materialize...) |
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necfbfan
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 78
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Post by necfbfan on Jul 5, 2023 7:09:45 GMT -5
Secondary question:
FBS conference title vs FCS national championship.
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Post by hc1998 on Jul 5, 2023 7:34:52 GMT -5
This is ludicrous...we are not going to the FBS...ever. FBS schools have to average 15K in attendance...we topped that once last year and we had to have people parking all over Worcester and getting shuttled to the game
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Post by Ignutz on Jul 5, 2023 8:25:00 GMT -5
A national championship is a national championship.
I would venture to say that those who know that South Dakota State won the FCS title in January far outnumber those who who know the winner of last year's December 19th Myrtle Beach Bowl (Marshall) or the December 20th Potato Bowl (Eastern Michigan). Where's the Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl when you need it???
Let's go to Frisco, and bring home a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!
By the way, last season there were only eight FCS teams that beat FBS teams. Three of the FBS teams that lost an FCS game played in a post-season Bowl game - Utah State, Bowling Green and Buffalo.
Only one of those three won its Bowl game, and as such, there was only one FCS team that beat an FBS Bowl game winner last season. Clue: That FCS team won its FBS game 37-31 on a 46-yard TD pass as time expired.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 8:28:10 GMT -5
Secondary question: FBS conference title vs FCS national championship. It's so rational: national. |
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 5, 2023 9:05:08 GMT -5
Strange as it may seem, the odds of FBS are actually better than a FCS title.
What are the requirements for FBS membership and what would be the additive cost?
1. "Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football."
2. "Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home
contests against FBS opponents." That means, like UMass, a healthy dose of games versus the likes of Northern Illinois, Liberty, etc. without a conference.
2. "Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period." FBS is actually looking to remove this as a hard number.
3. "Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period." That would take an additional 17 grants to get to the 90 percent threshold, or $1.3 million, plus an additional 17 for women's grants.
4. "Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs." With that add, the college meets this criteria.
Obviously, it's not that simple, given higher staff costs, crafting a schedule, etc., and it's not like BC and Syracuse would be knocking on the door to play at Fitton. But a national championship is really prohibitive for PL schools given its self-imposed restrictions on recruiting. The base of impact FCS talent is increasingly south and west of New England and it's no accident there hasn't been a Northeastern school in the finals in a decade as a result, or even a private school.
In that sense, a championship is more of a keepsake than a shirt which reads "2025 Boca Raton Bowl Champs", but it's also far less likely.
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Post by purplehaze on Jul 5, 2023 9:13:32 GMT -5
FBS is a million to one ! Other than football and women's bball, 'every other' HC sport has been languishing at the absolute bottom of D.1 with athletes and coaches better suited for D.2 and D.3
Just look at the archives of these sports (if they've been updated). Folks, the school has ignored 20 some odd teams for decades and simply let them exist without a chance to win.
I'm voting for the FCS championship
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 9:44:40 GMT -5
Strange as it may seem, the odds of FBS are actually better than a FCS title. What are the requirements for FBS membership and what would be the additive cost? 1. "Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football." 2. "Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home contests against FBS opponents." That means, like UMass, a healthy dose of games versus the likes of Northern Illinois, Liberty, etc. without a conference. 2. "Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period." FBS is actually looking to remove this as a hard number. 3. "Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period." That would take an additional 17 grants to get to the 90 percent threshold, or $1.3 million, plus an additional 17 for women's grants. 4. "Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs." With that add, the college meets this criteria. Obviously, it's not that simple, given higher staff costs, crafting a schedule, etc., and it's not like BC and Syracuse would be knocking on the door to play at Fitton. But a national championship is really prohibitive for PL schools given its self-imposed restrictions on recruiting. The base of impact FCS talent is increasingly south and west of New England and it's no accident there hasn't been a Northeastern school in the finals in a decade as a result, or even a private school. In that sense, a championship is more of a keepsake than a shirt which reads "2025 Boca Raton Bowl Champs", but it's also far less likely. Interesting. I have to think that because native athletic ability, size, strength and speed doesn't change at the Mason Dixon line, there are fruitful pickings in the northeast for a staff that can develop talent...and in the PL's case, perhaps know how to massage the medical red shirt regs.🙂 |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 5, 2023 12:30:01 GMT -5
This is ludicrous...we are not going to the FBS...ever. FBS schools have to average 15K in attendance...we topped that once last year and we had to have people parking all over Worcester and getting shuttled to the game The attendance requirement has never been enforced but....if you look at the list of schools that have moved up to FBS over the last 25 years, you'll see that Hily Cross in no way fits that group. |
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Post by hc1998 on Jul 5, 2023 13:00:05 GMT -5
This is ludicrous...we are not going to the FBS...ever. FBS schools have to average 15K in attendance...we topped that once last year and we had to have people parking all over Worcester and getting shuttled to the game The attendance requirement has never been enforced but....if you look at the list of schools that have moved up to FBS over the last 25 years, you'll see that Hily Cross in no way fits that group. Agreed, in both respects...would be hard to enforce, because if I read it right, its 15K once you are FBS, so the NCAA would basically have to relegate someone back to FCS. However I am sure they do take into account the likelihood of success in meeting that number when granting the application and I am not certain HC could forecast to hit that as an average number every year. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 5, 2023 13:20:53 GMT -5
The attendance requirement has never been enforced but....if you look at the list of schools that have moved up to FBS over the last 25 years, you'll see that Hily Cross in no way fits that group. Agreed, in both respects...would be hard to enforce, because if I read it right, its 15K once you are FBS, so the NCAA would basically have to relegate someone back to FCS. However I am sure they do take into account the likelihood of success in meeting that number when granting the application and I am not certain HC could forecast to hit that as an average number every year. No school has ever been forced down to FCS because of attendance. Moving up to FBS is all about getting invited to a conference. Thats the only factor. North Dakota State is FCS because they dont fit the footprint of any existing G5 league. Meanwhile Kennessaw State is moving up. |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 13:49:32 GMT -5
Agreed, in both respects...would be hard to enforce, because if I read it right, its 15K once you are FBS, so the NCAA would basically have to relegate someone back to FCS. However I am sure they do take into account the likelihood of success in meeting that number when granting the application and I am not certain HC could forecast to hit that as an average number every year. No school has ever been forced down to FCS because of attendance. Moving up to FBS is all about getting invited to a conference. Thats the only factor. North Dakota State is FCS because they dont fit the footprint of any existing G5 league. Meanwhile Kennessaw State is moving up. UMass and UConn might add the ability to stay in a conference as a related consideration. The closest FBS league outpost to HC is the ACC. Our tennis teams might never win a set in that league. |
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Post by thecrossisback on Jul 5, 2023 14:13:34 GMT -5
This is ludicrous...we are not going to the FBS...ever. FBS schools have to average 15K in attendance...we topped that once last year and we had to have people parking all over Worcester and getting shuttled to the game Check to see if Temple football averages that. They wish. Patriot League is not a conference made to win National Championships in FCS. |
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Post by hc1998 on Jul 5, 2023 14:43:31 GMT -5
This is ludicrous...we are not going to the FBS...ever. FBS schools have to average 15K in attendance...we topped that once last year and we had to have people parking all over Worcester and getting shuttled to the game Check to see if Temple football averages that. They wish. Patriot League is not a conference made to win National Championships in FCS. I recognize there is a huge difference between asses in the seats and reported attendance...but the reported attendance for Temple in each of the last 2 years easily eclipsed 15K per (remember, its an average, some games were below, but not by much). As for your second point, didn't alot of people, not just those that frequent this board, credit HC with giving SDSU its toughest game in the playoffs? Considering they were the eventual national champion, I think it puts HC alot closer to a national championship than it does an FBS invite. (Now is there an argument that had it not been for COVID the PL may not be producing a team capable of challenging for a championship? Absolutely, but at least right now the league had a shot last year and has another shot this year) |
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jul 5, 2023 15:05:31 GMT -5
FOR FOOTBALL: I would much rather win a national championship in FCS than come in at 6-5 and with the Northern South Regional New England Oil Change Bowl Presented By Tostitos Brought To You By Monster.com on a random December 23rd Christmas season night, played on ESPNU.
For basketball and hockey-- we ought to be able to get to respectability, if not challenging outright, for a championship at the top-most level of competition.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 5, 2023 17:43:34 GMT -5
This is ludicrous...we are not going to the FBS...ever. FBS schools have to average 15K in attendance...we topped that once last year and we had to have people parking all over Worcester and getting shuttled to the game Patriot League is not a conference made to win National Championships in FCS. Is there any championship for conferences in FCS? If not, this post makes no sense. I suggest we focus on making HC a quality team and not worry about the conference winning a championship that does not exist.  |
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Post by thecrossisback on Jul 5, 2023 18:14:58 GMT -5
Patriot League is not a conference made to win National Championships in FCS. Is there any championship for conferences in FCS? If not, this post makes no sense. I suggest we focus on making HC a quality team and not worry about the conference winning a championship that does not exist. Look at the results of the Patriot League champion in the FCS playoffs. Is it more wins or lose? Nobody is talking about conference tournaments this thread is about national championships. I don’t blame the good PL teams that won the league but look at the rest of the leagues overall records. When was the last time 3 PL teams had winning overall records besides the COVID year? You have to go to 2015. |
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 5, 2023 18:35:21 GMT -5
Is there any championship for conferences in FCS? If not, this post makes no sense. I suggest we focus on making HC a quality team and not worry about the conference winning a championship that does not exist. Look at the results of the Patriot League champion in the FCS playoffs. Is it more wins or loses. Nobody is talking about conference tournaments this thread is an about national championships. I don’t blame the good PL teams that won the league but look at the rest of the leagues overall records. When was the last time 3 PL teams had winning overall records besides the COVID year? You have to go to 2015. Nobody? I thought you said "Patriot League is not a conference made to win National Championships in FCS." That seems to be s post about a non-existent conference national championships. Did you mean the TEAMS of the PL? All I read was "conference". Sorry if I misunderstood your post. |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 19:03:28 GMT -5
Secondary question: FBS conference title vs FCS national championship. As they used to say in the recurring SNL skit, "Ditka!" Meaning a national championship outshines all other endings that are not national championships so the answer for me is always "Ditka!" |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 19:13:56 GMT -5
Is there any championship for conferences in FCS? If not, this post makes no sense. I suggest we focus on making HC a quality team and not worry about the conference winning a championship that does not exist. Look at the results of the Patriot League champion in the FCS playoffs. Is it more wins or loses. Nobody is talking about conference tournaments this thread is an about national championships. I don’t blame the good PL teams that won the league but look at the rest of the leagues overall records. When was the last time 3 PL teams had winning overall records besides the COVID year? You have to go to 2015. Your stats don't lie. If a PL team does win a natty, the analysts will come out of the woodwork with their insightful explanations such as "They brilliantly leveraged the value of a Patriot League degree to attract top talent" but it will really only be because Coach Chesney or another coach built and coached a better team than the others and HC had good fortune in their run that year. Right now the PL disadvantages seem like title eliminators, but when a PL team goes all the way, they will become interesting factors to discuss but not road blocks. |
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