|
|
Post by alum on Aug 15, 2023 9:06:21 GMT -5
Dadominate--I know you are not an MD (right? Didn't you tell us you were a PhD epidemiologist?) but you would agree that you have no basis to say that Caleb White died from a vaccine induced condition? Would you agree that young athletes have died from while engaged in exercise for as long as anyone can remember and long before the Covid vaccine was introduced? Would you further agree that the concern related to the vaccine is myocarditis? Would you also agree that if a vaccine recipient developed myocarditis it would have happened in the immediate week or two after vaccination? Therefore, would you agree that unless this young man died of myocarditis after recently getting vaccinated, that there is no basis for suggesting that this death was caused by the vaccine? Would you also agree that you have no information as to when or if he was vaccinated and that you have not reviewed his medical records?
While we are at it, would you also agree that Covid (the disease, not the vaccine) has caused heart related problem both during the acute phase and in those with what has been called "long Covid?"
Finally, would you agree that making this young person's death a battle in the vaccine wars without basis is a horrible way to treat his family?
|
|
hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
|
Post by hc69 on Aug 15, 2023 11:17:39 GMT -5
We don't know the causes of death in these two cases and won't for several weeks. It takes that long for the tox screen to come in. When the causes are known they will probably be cardiomyopathy or LV hypertrophy. They are the leading causes of sudden cardiac arrest in athletes, and in young people they are almost always inherited. They're not caused by a vaccine. There is an association between the COCID vaccine and myocarditis, but myocarditis generally causes symptoms. Asymptomatic cardiac arrest due to myocarditis is rare.
Linking these two deaths to the COVID vaccine in the absence of any evidence is rank speculation. Linking the deaths to some grand big pharma conspiracy requires a huge leap of faith, or several. The argument seems to be that big pharma owns the NIH and CDC, Congress, all the doctors, state health departments, med schools, medical journals, and tens of thousands of medical researchers worldwide working on treatments for diseases. And nary a peep from any of them. Big pharma doesn't have a monopoly on successful influence peddling. And it's gotten much worse since Citizens United.
Young people drop dead. It's sad, but it happens. And sometimes we don't know why. About 20 years ago I had a 22-year old male student drop dead in my class. The girl next to him was a respiratory therapy major and I had been a paramedic in grad school. We jumped right on him. When the ambulance came about five minutes later we tried unsuccessfully to cardiovert him. We did CPR for the ten minute ride to the hospital. They worked on him for about 45 minutes. We were in the room while they were working on him and there when they declared him dead. Everyone did everything right and he died anyway. A few weeks the coroner told me the cause of death was "sudden cardiac arrest of unknown etiology." In other words, he dropped dead and we don't know why.
It's not the only time it happened to me. Two years later I was walking to the student union when one of the engineering professors went down about 20 yards in front of me. Wash, rinse, repeat. I was there when they declared him dead as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Aug 15, 2023 13:50:09 GMT -5
Politicizing these tragedies under the guise of hidden truth adds to the heartbreak. Prayers for his family to find the strength to deal with his loss.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chu Chu on Aug 16, 2023 12:56:06 GMT -5
This entire thread is a microcosm of what is wrong with our national "debate" about most issues. A young man dies. Someone says I never used to hear about this kind of thing. Another person says could it be vaccines? And then the spiral begins.
The fact is that we do not know anything about the young man who died, or even whether he was given a vaccine of any kind. It is also true to say that there is no evidence to date of any increase in sudden cardiac death among athletes. There is also no evidence to date that Covid vaccines have caused any cardiac abnormalities, although early vaccines were tied to a rare incidence of thrombosis.
As someone who had the responsibility of administering preparticipation physical exams to prospective athletes for over three decades, I am very interested in this topic and try to stay abreast of changes. If there were vaccines that increased risk of sudden death, I would absolutely want to know that and use it in my decision making. Up till now, there is no such evidence I have seen. I am not involved in a conspiracy to cover something up.
|
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Aug 16, 2023 14:24:57 GMT -5
Well said. You are applying logic to some politically inspired BS. It is that simple and I hope it helps some folks to look at this more clearly. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Aug 16, 2023 19:38:07 GMT -5
Dado can certainly speak for himself but I didn’t read anything from him that came anywhere near suggesting that he had any idea whether this athlete’s death had anything to do with a vaccine. I thought his point was that the FDA and the pharma companies are all in bed together and that doesn't produce a system where transparency and the health of American citizens are their primary focuses when deciding what drugs to approve or not. He seems to know what he’s talking about but if anyone with a contrary view wants to debate him on the points he actually made, I’m interested to hear it to further educate myself.
|
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 17, 2023 0:47:50 GMT -5
It's just too bad for a country that badly needs a shot of unifying patriotism, that "Operation Warp Speed" doesn't get as much respect as the "Manhattan Project" does.
The Manhattan Project ended WW2 which caused 420,000 U.S. military and civilian deaths. Covid has killed 1.137 million Americans so far. The vaccine hasn't ended it, but saved many lives with less side effects than those suffered by the inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Even the former President who launched Operation Warp Speed rarely mentions it. When America was first to the moon, it generated great national pride and patriotism. When America was first with a life saving vaccine to combat the worst global pandemic in a century, not so much.
|
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on Aug 17, 2023 6:06:01 GMT -5
This entire thread is a microcosm of what is wrong with our national "debate" about most issues. A young man dies. Someone says I never used to hear about this kind of thing. Another person says could it be vaccines? And then the spiral begins. The fact is that we do not know anything about the young man who died, or even whether he was given a vaccine of any kind. It is also true to say that there is no evidence to date of any increase in sudden cardiac death among athletes. There is also no evidence to date that Covid vaccines have caused any cardiac abnormalities, although early vaccines were tied to a rare incidence of thrombosis. As someone who had the responsibility of administering preparticipation physical exams to prospective athletes for over three decades, I am very interested in this topic and try to stay abreast of changes. If there were vaccines that increased risk of sudden death, I would absolutely want to know that and use it in my decision making. Up till now, there is no such evidence I have seen. I am not involved in a conspiracy to cover something up. i respect those with the challenging task of providing primary care today and do not believe that there is a "cover up", by and large, from most individuals on the ground. confirmation bias exists and the problem includes some pcps who abandoned the hippocratic oath during covid and wouldn't treat unvaccinated patients, but the root of the problem is far higher up the totem pole at the policy level. i realize being a pcp today is very difficult... which is one of the reasons we are in the midst of publishing a large system-wide stress assessment and management program for primary care physicians and their patients. the stress during covid was particularly high. regarding the evidence, the question to ask yourself chu is the following... do you trust the cdc, fda, and medical journals and others that generate "the evidence" in light of the blatant conflicts of interest and long history of turning a blind eye to the problems? as just a few prominent examples, vioxx was fda approved and the signals for problems were there for YEARS before any action was taken. the same holds for the opioids, thalidomide, and many, many other products. i could write pages on the piss poor science of covid vaccines, which has resulted in HUNDREDS of retractions, but more generally, the standard for approval at FDA continues to be lowered. most realize that covid boosters given to millions were granted EUA based on a study of 8 mice, and there have never been ANY clinical studies demonstrating improvement in outcomes for covid vaccines for children and adolescents who were mandated to take the products to go to school, resulting in the resignation of fda veteran leaders gruber and krause who felt protection of the public had been abandoned. the raw data from the original covid vaccine trials has STILL not been released to researchers for analysis. that should be criminal. did you realize that fda now allows non-inferiority designs of new products for approval and essentially ignored their own cherry-picked advisers on aduhelm? the list goes on and on and it gets worse every day. www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/30/fda-approval-alzheimers-drug-aduhelm-report/10970324002/in order to return the priority to human health over pharma profiteering, there needs to be a complete overhaul at fda/cdc, no revolving door between leadership positions at pharma and those agencies, medical journals should be prohibited from serving as marketing arms for pharma, mainstream media should no longer allow direct to consumer pharma ads (we are one of just two countries in the world to allow that!), and they should disclose their funding to stop the poisoning of the minds of the masses. these are just starting points. much more would need to happen to restore trust that has been justifiably lost. |
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on Aug 17, 2023 6:11:46 GMT -5
Dado can certainly speak for himself but I didn’t read anything from him that came anywhere near suggesting that he had any idea whether this athlete’s death had anything to do with a vaccine. I thought his point was that the FDA and the pharma companies are all in bed together and that doesn't produce a system where transparency and the health of American citizens are their primary focuses when deciding what drugs to approve or not. He seems to know what he’s talking about but if anyone with a contrary view wants to debate him on the points he actually made, I’m interested to hear it to further educate myself. correct, 92. i don't know anything about this individual case and did not make any claims on it. my points, as stated clearly, are about the indisputable problems in our regulatory agencies, medical journals, and corporate press that interfere with communication of the evidence of harm emerging when it exists to physicians, patients, and the public at large. |
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on Aug 17, 2023 6:44:23 GMT -5
for those who are genuinely curious, this is a link to a download of a petition to the FDA regarding transparency in covid vaccine labeling put forth by a group of scientists and physicians with well over 1,000 peer-reviewed publications between them. suffice to say i know them personally  i also know most crusaders are genuinely curious, so you may appreciate the deep dive here with data as of early 2023. we have since had more concerning data, including that the incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis is far higher and longer lasting than described here, which may be a contributing factor to the excess mortality we've seen in countries with extensive vaccination. www.regulations.gov/document/FDA-2023-P-0360-0001unfortunately, despite the firepower of the authors and irrefutable data provided, the fda essentially blew this off with a dismissive note that vaccines do not need to prevent diseases per their redefinition of the term. disappointing, though not surprising and still a wealth of data that should sit heavy on the consciences of those who forced products on people in whom there was no evidence of benefit (e.g. children, adolescents, young adults) or even safety (e.g. pregnant women). |
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 17, 2023 8:18:14 GMT -5
I didn't take the deep dive. To me, vaccines: good, diseases: bad. Anything can be improved but I drove an hour and a half through two metro rush hours during a March snow/freezing rain storm to get my first shot a few days earlier than a local appointment was available. I feel good about it and feel good about my country initiating and funding the moon shot that brought it to market so quickly and so effectively.
I hope the U.S. and Democracy gets credit in the eyes of the world for a superior vaccine than those produced by authoritarian governments and their scientific communities.
I'll be getting the new booster when it comes out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 17, 2023 8:44:57 GMT -5
I didn't take the deep dive. To me, vaccines: good, diseases: bad. Anything can be improved but I drove an hour and a half through two metro rush hours during a March snow/freezing rain storm to get my first shot a few days earlier than a local appointment was available. I feel good about it and feel good about my country initiating and funding the moon shot that brought it to market so quickly and so effectively. I hope the U.S. and Democracy gets credit in the eyes of the world for a superior vaccine than those produced by authoritarian governments and their scientific communities. I'll be getting the new booster when it comes out. You might be interested in reading through this, along with the supporting documents in the "references" section -- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlementsThese big pharma companies consider these fines as merely a cost of doing business. While it is nice to think that big pharma, the CDC, FDA, NIH, et al have the wellbeing of the American public at the forefront of everything they do, when there are billions of dollars at stake, it's very easy for people/companies to become compromised. |
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 17, 2023 9:50:54 GMT -5
The pharmaceutical industry has an unusual business model, if I understand things correctly, with extremely high development costs and then enormous margins while under patent protection. So you may invest $1BN to develop a drug and it could fail, but if it succeeds you could sell $5BN a year of the medicine at, what, an 80% or 90% margin?
|
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on Aug 17, 2023 10:37:20 GMT -5
I didn't take the deep dive. To me, vaccines: good, diseases: bad. Anything can be improved but I drove an hour and a half through two metro rush hours during a March snow/freezing rain storm to get my first shot a few days earlier than a local appointment was available. I feel good about it and feel good about my country initiating and funding the moon shot that brought it to market so quickly and so effectively. I hope the U.S. and Democracy gets credit in the eyes of the world for a superior vaccine than those produced by authoritarian governments and their scientific communities. I'll be getting the new booster when it comes out. just curious, do you paint with such huge strokes in other aspects of life? "food good, hunger bad" (potato chips, candy, pork rinds) "fda-approved pharmaceuticals good, disease bad" (bextra, cylert, rezulin, vioxx) i assume you don't, so why do you give vaccines a completely free pass, particularly in comparison to other products from the same manufacturers? ultimately, you can choose to inform yourself or outsource your health to whosever interests you choose. that's your decision. however, nobody should have been mandated to get covid vaccines - particularly not young boys/men - because they neither prevent infection nor transmission of the disease and the risk/benefit ratio is unfavorable in many. it is a personal health decision, just as is what we eat, how we sleep, what other medications we take, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on Aug 17, 2023 10:51:19 GMT -5
The pharmaceutical industry has an unusual business model, if I understand things correctly, with extremely high development costs and then enormous margins while under patent protection. So you may invest $1BN to develop a drug and it could fail, but if it succeeds you could sell $5BN a year of the medicine at, what, an 80% or 90% margin? it is an interesting business model, indeed. although the business model continues to evolve. the largest pharma companies often buy other companies or the rights to medications developed at universities or other companies. covid treatment molnupirarvir, for example, was initially developed at emory university, purchased by a smaller company, which was in turn purchased by merck. the pfizer biontech story is somewhat similar. www.marketwatch.com/story/everything-you-need-to-know-about-biontech-and-the-married-couple-behind-the-covid-19-vaccine-at-the-front-of-a-global-race-11605032681it is more profitable to pharma to farm out the r&d to universities and smaller companies and purchase the rights to co-develop/distribute. |
|
|
|
Post by Chu Chu on Aug 17, 2023 11:03:35 GMT -5
Dado,
I appreciate your comments, and I am sympathetic and in agreement with your main point, "in order to return the priority to human health over pharma profiteering, there needs to be a complete overhaul at fda/cdc, no revolving door between leadership positions at pharma and those agencies, medical journals should be prohibited from serving as marketing arms for pharma, mainstream media should no longer allow direct to consumer pharma ads (we are one of just two countries in the world to allow that!), and they should disclose their funding to stop the poisoning of the minds of the masses. these are just starting points. much more would need to happen to restore trust that has been justifiably lost."
I personally don't see the NIH, CDC and the FDA in the same light. I am disappointed in the FDA, and agree that the drug approval process has become overwhelmed by the pharmaceutical lobby, as has Congress. Recent FDA decisions, such as Aduhelm, seem distorted by commercial priorities, with huge profits to industry and very little public benefit. So far, doctors have been very cautious in adopting these therapies. The NIH and CDC are still trusted sources by me, although the bureaucracy has become ponderous and less responsive.
I often see legitimate criticism of these regulatory agencies conflated with irresponsible conspiracy about medicines and vaccines, and that really worries me. We need these agencies, and they need to be held to standards that are based on informed criticism.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chu Chu on Aug 17, 2023 11:13:10 GMT -5
ultimately, you can choose to inform yourself or outsource your health to whosever interests you choose. that's your decision. however, nobody should have been mandated to get covid vaccines - particularly not young boys/men - because they neither prevent infection nor transmission of the disease and the risk/benefit ratio is unfavorable in many. it is a personal health decision, just as is what we eat, how we sleep, what other medications we take, etc. Hindsight is often 2020, but I want to remind you of what the situation was like when the vaccine was being developed. So many people were dying, so quickly, that refrigerator trucks were often parked outside of hospitals because morgues were overwhelmed with bodies. There were no known treatments for the infection, and the specter of a horrible epidemic weighed heavily on decisions. I have friends who are doctors and nurses who died delivering medical care during this time. In my opinion, it did make sense for medical professionals and others in close contact with the public to do everything they could to prevent their contracting and then disseminating the disease. It was in that spirit that masking was instituted, and that vaccines were mandated for folks in such contact. It was only later that we learned that transmission of the disease was not stopped by the vaccine. It was only later that we learned that people could get reinfected, after the vaccine, although with much milder disease. Although well over 1 million people were killed by COVID-19 in the United States, the evidence is overwhelming that the vaccine in public health measures helped to save lives. |
|
|
|
Post by alum on Aug 17, 2023 11:17:25 GMT -5
Dadominate and others--Let's change the subject. Where are you on mandatory childhood vaccines for children to attend school? What about school rules which prohibit children with infectious diseases from attending school for some period after an illness? Where do you draw the line between/around the competing goods of personal autonomy, the right to a free public education, and the public health concerns of gathering children in small spaces, especially when a fair number could be the older sibling of children too young to be vaccinated and or the child of a pregnant parent?
|
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 17, 2023 12:09:53 GMT -5
I didn't take the deep dive. To me, vaccines: good, diseases: bad. Anything can be improved but I drove an hour and a half through two metro rush hours during a March snow/freezing rain storm to get my first shot a few days earlier than a local appointment was available. I feel good about it and feel good about my country initiating and funding the moon shot that brought it to market so quickly and so effectively. I hope the U.S. and Democracy gets credit in the eyes of the world for a superior vaccine than those produced by authoritarian governments and their scientific communities. I'll be getting the new booster when it comes out. just curious, do you paint with such huge strokes in other aspects of life? "food good, hunger bad" (potato chips, candy, pork rinds) "fda-approved pharmaceuticals good, disease bad" (bextra, cylert, rezulin, vioxx) i assume you don't, so why do you give vaccines a completely free pass, particularly in comparison to other products from the same manufacturers? ultimately, you can choose to inform yourself or outsource your health to whosever interests you choose. that's your decision. however, nobody should have been mandated to get covid vaccines - particularly not young boys/men - because they neither prevent infection nor transmission of the disease and the risk/benefit ratio is unfavorable in many. it is a personal health decision, just as is what we eat, how we sleep, what other medications we take, etc. I don't think you give vaccines a completely free pass, it's more like to take a vaccine or not. It's more akin to a choice of eating or starving than deciding between salmon and broccoli or a cheeseburger and fries. It's not like we had an option for a low sodium vaccine or a low fat, low sugar, low calorie, gluten free, lactose free, soy free, farm to table or other varieties like we do with food. I watched CNN and the physicians and health reporters all said the vaccine was recommended and would reduce my chances of ending up like Herman "9-9-9" Caine. His death hit me hard because I liked his positive spirit and thought he might well have masked or socially distanced at the last political rally he attended if public health measures hadn't been politicized at that point. So, if I had my druthers I'd like to see more support of national public health measures next time we need them. |
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 17, 2023 12:24:36 GMT -5
As a baby boomer I might have an easier time feeling positive about vaccines because I had a classmate all through the first eight grades who was a polio victim with the heavy braces. He was a year older because he missed a year with that disease and I always felt good I got the polio vaccine before I got polio and that was reinforced by adults such as parents and teachers. What you learn as a truth early is hard to dislodge, thus the general position, vaccine: good, disease bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Aug 17, 2023 14:16:31 GMT -5
Oversimplifying, I agree with Chu and while some good points by Dado, Chu has already enumerated those same agreed commonalities.
I and my entire family, and the extended clan, all got at least some covid shots/boosters. A couple still got Covid, all mild cases. No one hospitalized and no one died. Side effects for all were either non-existent or minimal. I, personally never got it and have received every shot and booster (all Moderna) to date. Wife had all Pfizer and got a mild case of it. I kidded that's because I got the "real" vaccine, Moderna, with the stronger dosage.
I am neither a doctor nor an infectious disease specialist but do believe correlation does not imply causation. Just because someone got a Covid vaccine and then shortly thereafter came down with some illness and even died, does not mean the vaccination caused it.
On the larger issue of big pharma having too great of an influence on the CDC, FDA, and other governmental agencies, well, of course one should be skeptical, but not jump right to cynicism which some sound like they have.
Oh, my position on undo influences skews more towards elected politicians than a governmental employee whose not up for reelection every 2 or 6 years and wants those large political donations. Especially when many of those same governmental employees are physicians who live by the hippocratic oath rather than the apparent hypocritic oath taken by many elected officials.
Putting my stake deeper in the ground, I tend to trust governmental agencies until proven otherwise. If they were doing it for the money, they wouldn't work for a governmental agency. I also believe that the vast majority of police officers are good people. I've known dozens, if not hundreds across the country and never met a bad one and all wanted to serve their communities. That said, I am not naive enough to believe there are not some "badge heavy" cops who do bad things and look to leverage their positions.
Now, I view myself as a moderate, perhaps once called the "silent majority." I have little doubt that some here think that I am extremely liberal (believing in the efficacy of vaccines, as an example), while others might believe I am very conservative (you know, that Crusader thing). But that's on you and your perspective, don't hang one of those extremes on me. As I've often posted, one takeaway from my Holy Cross education is there are precious few things that are black & white. That outlook was strongly reinforced while handling and managing insurance claims. Try investigating and settling claims under "pure comparative" negligence laws.
So, bottom line, did those vaccines cause some deaths? Quite possibly. Did those vaccines save literally millions of people from severe illness and death? Almost certainly.
|
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Aug 17, 2023 14:19:08 GMT -5
The polio vaccine keeps people from getting polio, thus it's a real vaccine.
The COVID vaccine keeps people from getting COVID, but they may still get COVID, but it probably won't be as bad as if they had it without the vaccine, but the viral load could be lower, but you could still probably maybe definitely pass it along to someone else who could catch it and die, but then again, they could not die unless the have pre-existing conditions, in which case the vaccine will definitely help, but nothing can stop the coronavirus from spreading.
That's the difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Aug 17, 2023 15:19:58 GMT -5
The polio vaccine keeps people from getting polio, thus it's a real vaccine. The COVID vaccine keeps people from getting COVID, but they may still get COVID, but it probably won't be as bad as if they had it without the vaccine, but the viral load could be lower, but you could still probably maybe definitely pass it along to someone else who could catch it and die, but then again, they could not die unless the have pre-existing conditions, in which case the vaccine will definitely help, but nothing can stop the coronavirus from spreading. That's the difference. The polio vaccine was never 100% effective and neither is the Covid vaccine (developed in "warp speed", by the way, thanks to our former President). I, my wife, son and grandkids had both and feel fortunate they were available to us. |
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on Aug 17, 2023 16:50:56 GMT -5
reasonable posts here and respectful discussion, which is encouraging... and not surprising as we are all crusaders, after all to chu's point, i agree that we need regulatory bodies. we just need them to be *independent* regulatory bodies that are not funded by the companies that they are supposed to be regulating. bmj is a top medical journal and i include this brief paper in medical student teaching and i think table 1 will be eye-opening, to some. regulatory capture is far from a uniquely american problem! www.bmj.com/content/bmj/377/bmj.o1538.full.pdfthe conflation you point out is legitimate, in my view, chu. although another important conflation is that those who recognized early on that monovalent, non-sterilizing vaccines were not going to stop the spread of any virus - which was proven to be correct - must then think that covid was not serious. nothing could be farther from the case. i, and most of my colleagues, knew and communicated that covid (alpha wave in particular) was very serious indeed, particularly for those at high risk. that recognition did not make the therapies work any better and it was entirely possible to know that covid was serious AND that the vaccines were not going to be the "dead end" that was promised by fauci, walensky, the white house, etc. conversely, the great barrington declaration has aged quite well, which shouldn't surprise us because focused protection is how we approached all other pandemics. gbdeclaration.org/p.s. - it's nice to have such civil discussion without labels and ad hominems, as was common until fairly recently. |
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Aug 18, 2023 10:01:06 GMT -5
The polio vaccine keeps people from getting polio, thus it's a real vaccine. The COVID vaccine keeps people from getting COVID, but they may still get COVID, but it probably won't be as bad as if they had it without the vaccine, but the viral load could be lower, but you could still probably maybe definitely pass it along to someone else who could catch it and die, but then again, they could not die unless the have pre-existing conditions, in which case the vaccine will definitely help, but nothing can stop the coronavirus from spreading. That's the difference. Does the COVID shot actually help prevent people from getting COVID? I thought it just reduced symptoms. Sometimes so much that you could have it and simply not even realize you have it - hence the whole spreadability thing. Based on that, I think the word "vaccine" is a misnomer for the COVID thing. That doesn't mean it's bad or not helpful, just poor vocabulary. We call the flu shot a "shot" . For people sticking needles in my arm, I think the COVID needle sounds a lot more like a flu "shot" than a polio "vaccine" Perhaps I should appoint myself to the vocabulary police |
|
